Home Recording Software

[billhart22]

Hello -

I am just getting into recording at home. I have a Presonus Firebox. It comes with CuBase LE. Before making a statement about CuBase LE, myself, I was wondering what software AND recording interfaces (like Presonus) that you would recommend.

I know that I will learn a lot from the people on here.

I think a lot of people would like your opinions and suggestions, and your reasons why.

Thanks,

Bill

[Lockbody]

I've been with Cubase since VST 3.0 and love it. If I could afford it I'd move to Nuendo as I don't ever use all the midi functionality of Cubase, but Cubase SX 3 (the version I'm on) is so similar it almost doesn't matter.

If you ever plan on taking your compositions to a "real" studio, however, you may want to take a look at SlowToo.... errr... ProTools as the projects you create can be opened at just about every pro studio in the world.

[Jeroen]

I use Nuendo II, I have the complete program, so didn't had to make the investment. Also have Cubase LE and some lighter then light Protools thing.

I was thinking of buying Protools, but that was only so you can take your recording to every freakin' studio in the world. On the otherhand I have Nuendo II, so what the hack. Nuendo III is to expensive for me (so prices like 1800 USD) and I only wanna have a few options. Record my instruments, make a good mix out of it, and add the right FX to it.

What IMO is importent, is the right set of plugins, which also seems to me pretty pricy. I am doing a lot of research lately for plugins, but that is pretty hard:(

On recording software, you go or the Steinberg way (Cubase, Nuendo) or the Protools way.

Jeroen

Recording with:

AMD X2 4200+dualcore

2GB memory

Sata drives

M-Audio Delta 1010lt

Vivanco and Hosa gold plated cables

[Mindseyes]

Im useing Nuendo III and freaking love it! Its a lot of jack but worth every $

to me!......The only other app ive ever owned was Cool Edit Pro and it got me by for many years.

Like Jeroen said plugins are were its at!

Good luck on your search...

[Jeroen]

Im useing Nuendo III and freaking love it! Its a lot of jack but worth every $

to me!......The only other app ive ever owned was Cool Edit Pro and it got me by for many years.

Like Jeroen said plugins are were its at!

Good luck on your search...

What can it do more then Nuendo II ??

I only wanna use it for straight recordings though, so not the midi stuff and for also not the surround s**t etc.

Jeroen

[Mitch]

Hi Bill - a good and helpful resource here on the HFC is MrGuitarguy. He'll probably respond as soon as he finishes today's session, which'll most likely be in the wee hours of tomorrow morning.

In the meantime, while I can't argue with going to something like PT M-Powered and an M-Audio interface (I have a 1010LT), my 2 cents would be to stay with Cubase LE. There's no reason, other than newbie skills, that you can't get surprisingly good results with it. Each mix you do will get progressively better. There are plenty of good forums out there for info, too, like gearslutz.

Keep your expectations reasonable. AutoCAD can't make me the next Frank Lloyd Wright, so I don't expect DAW software to make me the next Bob Clearmountain or Terry Manning.

If I botch the guitar part, it ain't the software's fault. Plus, software won't train my ears so that mixes will go from home to car stereo to boom box without falling apart. That kinda ear training takes time and repetition, assuming one's room and monitors don't make that learning curve steeper than it already is.

From what I can tell, the up and coming app is REAPER, developed by Justin Frankel (of WinAmp fame). REAPER's MIDI isn't as strong as the big dogs' yet, but this thing is coming on like a freight train with new builds almost every week. Right now, REAPER's MIDI keeps me in Cubase SE for tracking, but I'm doing more mixing in REAPER, which has much better effects routing than any version of Cubase short of V4 (and V4 or any of the major apps will run ya some bucks).

REAPER is uncrippled, unexpiring shareware priced at just 40 bucks. You can't afford not to keep an eye one this one. Whether it becomes a giant-killer is anybody's guess, but either way, this is about the most insanely productive software development effort I've ever seen.

Have fun!

[billhart22]

Hi Bill - a good and helpful resource here on the HFC is MrGuitarguy. He'll probably respond as soon as he finishes today's session, which'll most likely be in the wee hours of tomorrow morning.

In the meantime, while I can't argue with going to something like PT M-Powered and an M-Audio interface (I have a 1010LT), my 2 cents would be to stay with Cubase LE. There's no reason, other than newbie skills, that you can't get surprisingly good results with it. Each mix you do will get progressively better. There are plenty of good forums out there for info, too, like gearslutz.

Keep your expectations reasonable. AutoCAD can't make me the next Frank Lloyd Wright, so I don't expect DAW software to make me the next Bob Clearmountain or Terry Manning.

If I botch the guitar part, it ain't the software's fault. Plus, software won't train my ears so that mixes will go from home to car stereo to boom box without falling apart. That kinda ear training takes time and repetition, assuming one's room and monitors don't make that learning curve steeper than it already is.

From what I can tell, the up and coming app is REAPER, developed by Justin Frankel (of WinAmp fame). REAPER's MIDI isn't as strong as the big dogs' yet, but this thing is coming on like a freight train with new builds almost every week. Right now, REAPER's MIDI keeps me in Cubase SE for tracking, but I'm doing more mixing in REAPER, which has much better effects routing than any version of Cubase short of V4 (and V4 or any of the major apps will run ya some bucks).

I just downloaded a copy....it really looks like everything is really handy...I will check it out here today.

It's a free download and is fully functional, and STAYS fully functional. After 30 days it puts a 6 second nag on the front end. If you register it....it only costs $40. Can't beat that! so far...........

Thanks a million!

Bill

REAPER is uncrippled, unexpiring shareware priced at just 40 bucks. You can't afford not to keep an eye one this one. Whether it becomes a giant-killer is anybody's guess, but either way, this is about the most insanely productive software development effort I've ever seen.

Have fun!

I just downloaded a copy....it really looks like everything is really handy...I will check it out here today.

Thanks a million!

Bill

[NeilZ]

Cubase is great if you need comprehensive MIDI support.

Pro Tools M-Powered is a great deal. What it lacks in sophistication in terms of MIDI support, it more than makes up for in ease of use for general audio recording and editing.

It also has the largest user base which is important should you want to work with other musicians/producers/studios.

All this said, Nuendo is said to sound the best. Yes, no BS, different apps process audio at different bit rates internally and this has am impact on the sound quality.

I know all of this crap because I have been making and recording music on computers since 1986. Talk about a mis-spent youth...:-)

[Dutchman]

I switched to Cubase SX3 2 years ago and I feel I'm getting better sounding recordings over the Sonar software I previously used.

I also use the Firepod and I really have enjoyed working with that also, very easy to use.

Cubase is great stuff.

I also use tube compressors and EQ's before the Firepod on Bass and Vocals. One of the things I think made a big difference with the channel strips is putting all NOS Telefunkens ECC 83's in the Vocal strip, and NOS Bugle Boy 7025's in the Instrument strip. They came with EH's and they where very harsh to my ears.

You can do almost anything with the SX3

[Lockbody]

I thought Cubase SX 3/4 and Nuendo shared the same audio engine. Cubase SX lacks most of the sophistcated post-production features of Nuendo, among other things, but I think they "sound" the same.

Cubase SX and Nuendo sound better than most app because of the full delay compensation that many other pro apps still don't have. It really tightens up the sound.

[jwhitcomb3]

For Mac, MOTU's Digital Performer is amazing. It is pricey and has a huge learning curve, but the power makes it worth it.

I got a copy of Mackie's Tracktion 2 with my Mackie firewire interface and found it to be great for tracking...simple, clean and intuitive interface. Then I ported the tracks back to DP for processing and mixing. The program is nice because it is both Mac and PC based and is an excellent value.

-Jonathan

[billhart22]

Im useing Nuendo III and freaking love it! Its a lot of jack but worth every $

to me!......The only other app ive ever owned was Cool Edit Pro and it got me by for many years.

Like Jeroen said plugins are were its at!

Good luck on your search...

I'm checking out a copy of Cool Edit Pro on Ebay. I am at $15.00 now It would be fun to check out and play with. Adobe bought them out and call it Audio 2.0 now.

Everything I can find on Nuendo (sellers and users) says that it is the VERY best. It costs an arm and a leg though. Maybe I will consider that with time.

Mackie's Tracktion 2 is really priced nice...$60.00

I have been working with Cubase LE yesterday and today....and it is really pretty spiffy for a guy at my level of recording experience. I will continue with LE and see how I really like it.

This guy on EBay sells Cubase really cheap! The Digital Design Store

I downloaded REAPER and am setting it up. It has a lot of cool features, and I will play with it also.

Actually, I am coming to the conclusion that it is good experience to try a few different ones out, because it will give me a broader understanding of what I can do and what I want to do with software. One of my main goals is to record my practicing, so I can listen to myself and pick out my bad habits and clean up my sound the best that I can. I am using a pretty darn clean sound so I can really discriminate what I am doing wrong here and there. I have some really bad learned habits. I am finding that out as I listen to myself.

Also, I want to use the software for writing songs.....so there are a lot of uses for me.

I would like to get a little more information on recording interfaces....any tricks that anyone knows and things like that.

I really appreciate the input so far....it has really kept me busy since I started this thread, but the research has been fun.

Bill

[darc]

Also, I want to use the software for writing songs.....so there are a lot of uses for me.

If you expect to be sitting alone brainstorming and overdubbing a lot - as opposed to mic'ing up a band and multi-tracking performances in the traditional sense - be sure to check out Ableton Live. I stuck with Sonar for many years, mainly because it was paid for and I figured all DAWs were basically alike, but when I started working in Abe Live I felt like an idiot because it took so long for me to make the jump.

Re: hardware, I think the Presonus stuff is a good value. I use a Firepod because it's the only interface that wedges 8 mic pre's in 1RU for ~$600 (probably less now!) Folks with a little more cash to spare, better ears, and the patience to go shopping for outboard pre's commonly recommend the RME Fireface. But unless you're planning on tracking a live band, you can do worse than to stick with your Firebox for a while.

[ZR]

What were the biggest improvements over Sonar that A Live has?

[Imiss85]

What were the biggest improvements over Sonar that A Live has?

The fact that you can record in pieces if you want and put it together. Also, say you decide you need another verse before the bridge, with Abelton you just click and try it. You have the ability to do this on the fly. It's nuts when you mess with it. That being said, Abelton is very hard to get your head around. I also have and usually use Sonar Home studio 4xl, which I like a lot.

[mattb]

I'm using Sonar Producer 4 now, definitely a killer program. If I could do it again I think I would go with ProTools though.

[darc]

What were the biggest improvements over Sonar that A Live has?

Baddmann covers it in very general terms. The biggest distinction - the one that will grab a user right out of the box - is that Live has an Arrangement view, which is very similar to the typical DAW (actually, a little lite on features vs. something like Sonar), and a Session view, which offers a completely different kind of workflow. In Session view you're thinking in terms of clips and scenes rather than long contiguous tracks. A scene is typically comprised of clips that will play simultaneously, so a traditional songwriter will lean toward scenes defining intros, verses, bridges, choruses, etc. But the elements of a scene (clips) can also be launched in time against other scenes, drag-copied, and mangled in a million ways, to keep fresh alternatives happeing in non-destructive ways. It's the ultimate band in a box.

When you're done with the "sandbox" mode that Session view offers, you can print the stuff off to the Arrangement view and continue working in a more DAW-esque fashion. Or you can stay in session view and - especially if you've got a laptop - use the ideas you've cooked up as part of a performance rig.

There are a couple of other products that embrace a similar design - most notably Cakewalk Project 5. But P5 was essentially a "me-too" product chasing after Live's coattails and it shows. Live's a little pricey, but it's way more capable.

As for things that don't "grab a user right out of the box", if you have any technical inclination whatsoever, there's incredible creative potential in just warping the toolset in new ways. The routing and event-handling options are so flexible, I'm always finding new ways to use the thing. For instance this weekend I set up some weird delay lines as returns and with a little MIDI manipulation built an awesome looping system. Live's also been the only host that let me set up my guitar synth stuff the way I want it without any headaches.

Important caveat: these aren't features that everybody will want. If you're looking for a straight DAW to work in the traditional tape-based paradigm, then you might be better off with Sonar, or Cubase, or Pro Tools. For mixing and mastering large (lots and lots of tracks) projects, Live would not be my first choice. The feature set just isn't slanted in that direction (little things like UI elements not being resizable, tracks not being groupable etc, start to add up against you.) You can do it, it's just not the very best tool for the job. On the other hand, for sitting down, having fun and making music alone, there is nothing even in the ballpark that I'm aware of.

[ZR]

I'm getting a Line 6 KB37 delivered today and it has a Lite version of Live. Do you know anything about that? I think you're limited to 4 tracks.

I currently use Cakewalk Home Studio. I guess Reaper, mentioned earlier, is probably more like a regular DAW like Cakewalk?

[darc]

There have been a few versions of Live Lite (usually named "[hardware product]-edition" or something like that) with various nerfs. I had an M-Audio edition that came with a keyboard and that's what got me on board. I think they disable some save features, and some editions don't allow for insertion of more than one VSTi at a time, and yeah, maybe there is a 4-track limitation on yours. There should still be enough there to make it worth your while to take a test drive though. (Caution: I upgraded almost immediately. Then again, it's a much better deal than just buying Live new.)

I don't know much about Reaper, but yeah on 1st glance it looks like a conventional DAW in the Cakewalk/Sonar vein. Speaking of which, I didn't mean to imply that Abe Live was superior to any of these DAWs; it's really apples and oranges. I'd certainly never try to run a pro studio tracking other bands with it! But for me personally, it's been a lot more fun.

[MrGuitarguy]

I use protools. It's the industry standard plain and simple. Even a simple Mbox can get you started with it (you can track with your presonus interface and import the files to protools for mixing). The nice thing about protools is that any major studio is running it. I've never been to or seen a great studio that didn't.

Honestly, what to use really depends on what your goals are. You're simply not going to be able to make a record that sounds as good as a major commerical release on any simple home recording gear. That being said, I've heard some really good sounding stuff done on simple setups.

Honestly, it's more about knowing how to rack and mix than just having good equipment.

Let me know if I can answer any specific questions for you.