Hamer USA Studio vs. Gibson LP Special

[rorschah]

I picked up the low end Gibson LP special - $700 at the GC, mahogany, with humbuckers. I really, really like the neck and the feel of the whole thing, and the richness and warmth of the tone when boosted. The sustain! It lacks a little in clean tones - seems a bit empty, compared to even my low end MIM Telecaster.

Anyway, I got an offer to buy a used Hamer USA studio for exactly that price, which would mean I'd have to return it to GC to raise the cash and then get the thing shipped. There's no chance of A/B-ing, and I can't find any Hamer USA's in town to try out.

So: the question: for you guys who know about this stuff, what's the difference in sound? I'm playing sort of early electric blues, with tube amp distortion and nothin' else, some jazz, some punked out stuff. I love the LP for warmth of tone, but some of the talk makes it seem like the Hamer is a really excellent guitar.

Thoughts?

Thanks, all.

-r

[Bluesking]

I own a USA Studio and it flat out smokes nearly anything Gibson manages to get right. I've owned a Les Paul Standard (plus top), 335, SG Special, DC Studio, and a Flying V. They all had their own vibe (especially the 335), but none can compare to the USA Hamers. Fit, feel, quality, and most importantly, tone!

Think Cream, Mountain, and Free when you combine the USA Studio w/ a quality tube amp and some volume. My Studio is 3 times the guitar my LP Standard was and it was 1/3 the cash.

This one is a no brainer - return the Gibson and get the Hamer. If you don't, hook me up with the seller and I'll buy it instead!

[El_Natoro]

A few years ago I got a used 99 Hamer Studio in Aztec Gold with with a killer flame top for $700. It is the best looking and sounding guitar I have ever owned. I can't stop playing it and my wife wants to brain me with it.

I never had a LP DC, but I did have a 1960 Les Paul Goldtop re-issue. So I can't give you an A/B since they are 2 totally different guitars, but I will say that the quality of materials and the workmanship on the Hamer is twice as good as the LP and at half the price. I got rid of the LP after I got the Hamer and I never looked back.

I just love the tone. I don't know if I just got a good one (from what I read around here I suspect not) but this guitar just sounds so damn good, plugged in or not. And the neck just makes me want to play and play. I swear that this guitar makes me a better player because that's all I want to do now. And when my fingers cannot take the abuse any longer, I just polish her up and set her on her stand and stare at her for hours and hours, admiring her beauty and reminiscing of all the good times we've had and dreaming of the many more yet to come (sigh).

Seriously, get the Hamer!

[ajoso]

My 2c:

I have no direct comment on the Gibson vs. Hamer argument, except to say that I have a Hamer USA P-90 Special and am quite happy with it.

But, If you like the Gibson, I'd say keep it. I'm of the opinion that two people can play the very same guitar and either love it or hate it depending on their personal tastes. Maybe this Gibson works for you - only you can answer that. Maybe you should hang on to it until you decide what you really want from a guitar and then move from there. Otherwise you might end up yet another guitarist with a "one that got away" story. I should also point out that Gibson have made more than a few good guitars over the years.

[El_Natoro]

ajoso has a good point. Maybe you could have the love affair I have with my Hamer with the Gibson you now already have. Anything is possible

[Bluesking]

I concur with the previous two posts. As you saw from my first response to this question, I wholeheartedly recommended you go with the Hamer.

However, don't let the LP go if you really have something going with it. Just because myself (or anyone else for that matter) says that the Hamer is a better guitar doesn't make your LP substandard. Sometimes Gibson does get it right, and you can't argue with their history in blues and rock.

In short - don't let go of a good thing unless you have to. I was in a similar situation when I was younger, and let a GC salesperson talk me out of my Marshall Bluesbreaker RI and into a Fender Blues Jr. Wish I still had it! He made the case that the Bluesbreaker wasn't a true blues (?) amp, and that it was just too much amp for me. I had a good thing going with the Marshall, but just didn't know it and I let somebody else make my mind up for me.

Also, why couldn't you just go ahead and buy the Hamer (maybe use a CC and float the cash) and simply compare the two. If the Hamer gets the nod, the Gibby goes back. If you keep the LP, just list the Studio on this forum and you'll get what you paid easily.

There's my two cents. Good luck.

[Craig S]

Edited: I had a nice argument going until I saw you were talking about a Special(with buckers?) and not a Studio....If you like the Gibson by all means keep it. Just because it's a Gibson doesn't mean it's inferior, I have Gibson I like better than my Hamers, it's subjective. The Hamer is probably a little nicer guitar build wise. Between those models is kind of apples and oranges.

[El_Natoro]

Is this the guitar you just picked up?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/fg=101...ase_pid/517199/

If so, the problem with your clean sound is your pickups. If you don't like your clean sound, it isn't going to get any better until you change them.

What year Hamer Studio are you looking at? If its a 99 or later, and stock, it will have Seymour Duncan 59's which are great pickups for the styles you mentioned. They clean up real good too. If it's a 98 or older and stock, it will have a 59 neck and JB bridge. The JB's don't clean up as nice as the 59's in my opinion and are a hotter pickup.

Also, you'll want to know if the Hamer's neck is the skinnier profile. Mine is and it is exactly like the 1960 slim taper neck that was on my LP (and on yours, if yours is the same guitar in the link). That was the one thing I loved about my LP, the neck. I hated the pickups, which were even hotter than yours. The funny thing is that my Hamer sounds more like a Les Paul than my Les Paul did! I don't know how Gibson called it a 1960 reissue and then put super hot ceramic pickups in it. I guess they were just referring to the body and neck.

Just some things to consider.

[MCChris]

One thing's for sure ... you're almost assured of getting superior finish on the Hamer as opposed to the "faded" Gibson, for whatever that's worth.

[rorschah]

Wow! Thanks for all the replies, guys.

How different are the bodies on these things for sound? I mean, one thought I have is - if I change out the pickups on the Les Paul, will that just make it sound pretty much like the Hamer? (And wouldn't buying the Hamer just be a cheaper way of getting at the pups?)

And: I don't really know what "creamy, mountain, and free" means. (I'm new to the guitar world - mostly played jazz piano in my previous life, though I'm lovin' the guitar way more these days.) I can't get a feel from these forums - are the Hamer's more hard-rock/Strat-direction than the LP's, or are they rich 'n warm 'n open to bluesy sort'a things.

-thi

[Jimbilly]

My friend has a very recent Gibson V. He liked it, and then had the humbuckers tapped and a 2nd switch installed (he's primarily a prs guy and loves the tap options of the prs's), now his V gets played as much as the PRS. I'll admit that his V is very cool, and a very nice guitar.

[jwhitcomb3]

And: I don't really know what "creamy, mountain, and free" means. (I'm new to the guitar world - mostly played jazz piano in my previous life, though I'm lovin' the guitar way more these days.) I can't get a feel from these forums - are the Hamer's more hard-rock/Strat-direction than the LP's, or are they rich 'n warm 'n open to bluesy sort'a things.

There's no way you're going to learn what a guitar sounds like from reading an internet message board.

What I can say for sure is that the Gibson is a mass produced instrument and the Hamer is for the most part hand made. In terms of quality of parts, materials, workmanship and attention to detail, the Hamer is certainly a better bang for the buck.

However...that doesn't mean that the Hamer is a better guitar for you and what you want.

I wouldn't characterize a short scale Hamer as the least bit strat-like. There are people on this board who use these guitars for hard rock, blues, pop, jazz, rockabilly and what have you. I've seen jazz players with Les Pauls and hard rockers playing Telecasters. The guitar doesn't define the idiom, the player does.

FWIW, I've played dozens of Gibsons and none has ever spoken to me. Almost every Hamer I've played has had me reflexively reaching for my wallet.

-Jonathan

[Brownsound]

There is absolutely no question that the Hamer will be in all aspects of fit and finish, superior to the Gibson. However it all comes down to tone and playability. Try them both and see which one blows your hair back..then get that one. Chances are very good that the Hamer will win.

[ET_KenW]

And: I don't really know what "creamy, mountain, and free" means. (I'm new to the guitar world - mostly played jazz piano in my previous life, though I'm lovin' the guitar way more these days.) I can't get a feel from these forums - are the Hamer's more hard-rock/Strat-direction than the LP's, or are they rich 'n warm 'n open to bluesy sort'a things.

Cream, Mountain, and Free are bands. Eric Clapton used LPs and Gibson SGs while he was with Cream, I think.

Hamers should be very comparable to the Gibson you have.

[rorschah]

Hah. Cream! Of course! <hits head>

In a previous life, I was a food reviewer. So when you say, "cream and mountain" I imagine a guitar tone sounding like gelato and Japanese mountain yam. Then I figured I was probably misinterpreting.

Speaking of which - you know, i'm in L.A. There has to be a Hamer somewhere here I can try, doesn't there? Anybody from L.A., know who stocks? I live right near Guitar Alley on Sunset, and tried every single shop. Also tried all the distributors listed, they didn't have anything. Anybody know any vintage joints around here that might have some Hamers I can try?

I'm very tempted to move over to the Hamer - the more I play the Gibson, the flatter it sounds - but I really want to put one in my hands.

-thi

[Jorge]

I have sold all my Specials/FM Specials/Artist Mahoganys/Studios, and I have bought two Gibson Les Paul Special HB, although the ones with the small trap inlays, not dots.

I have done so mostly on aesthetics (looks), although the Hamers were really impressive guitars in build, quality ant tone. The Gibsons are very good, not AS good mind you, but close enough not to guarantee myself feeling bad because I look like a geek (YMMV).

I have 3 Hamers now, A Diablo, a Daytona, and a Newport Pro. Wonderful guitars by all means, and in those cases, looks are either decent, or decidedly gorgeous, so in those cases I get the best of both worlds.

[KeyOfZ]

I have only played 3 Gibson LPs in my life and compared to Hamer I was not very impressed build wise.

The tone was ok on all 3 but the fretwork was gawdawful on one of them (brand new Gibson USA even) to the point that I couldn't believe that is got past whatever QA process Gibson USA has in place. There were what appeared to be impressions around the frets starting at the 13th fret and looked like the frets were pressed in with elmers glue.

The tops on all 3 were very lack luster compared to the Hamers I have seen/played.

I do know that Gibson makes GREAT guitars but it just seems like you have to really search for the "diamond in the rough" to get a good one.

If I were you I would go for the Hamer just because you will be getting more bang for your buck. If the tone is sounding flat to you now...just wait until you do finally get a chance to sit down with a Hamer USA

[Brownsound]

I have only played 3 Gibson LPs in my life and compared to Hamer I was not very impressed build wise.

The tone was ok on all 3 but the fretwork was gawdawful on one of them (brand new Gibson USA even) to the point that I couldn't believe that is got past whatever QA process Gibson USA has in place. There were what appeared to be impressions around the frets starting at the 13th fret and looked like the frets were pressed in with elmers glue.

The tops on all 3 were very lack luster compared to the Hamers I have seen/played.

I do know that Gibson makes GREAT guitars but it just seems like you have to really search for the "diamond in the rough" to get a good one.

If I were you I would go for the Hamer just because you will be getting more bang for your buck. If the tone is sounding flat to you now...just wait until you do finally get a chance to sit down with a Hamer USA

KOZ I know exactly what you meant. I have purchased 4 Les Pauls in the last 2 months and sent 3 of them back. The first was due to a bad neck sanding job and the other two were because of the fret issues you describe.

Im keeping the last one since I bit the bullet and bought a Custom Shop 57 RI Goldtop. Now this guitar is built correctly. Still, not as good as Hamer but I wanted the LP sounds and I just had to have an LP. I also own an ES-137 which fit and finish wise is ok but it sounds so nice! I will be taking delivery of an SG 61' RI this week...only becuase Im GASing for an SG. Otherwise my 2 Hamers are built better.

[straightblues]

Unfortunately there aren't any dealers in Los Angeles. I live down in Long Beach and am in the same boat. The closest place I have found is down in San Diego at Alan's Music in Las Mesa California. They have about 10 Hamer USA guitars. www.alansmusiccenter.com (619)466-1938. I made the drive a couple of weeks ago and it was well worth the trip.

I played the Studio. It is a great guitar. It sounds like a great Les Paul. It is wayy better than the Les Paul you have. I would say that it doesn't sound real vintage if that is your aim. However, I don't think any great Les Paul really sounds vintage. Do the deal today!!! It is a much much much better instrument than your Les Paul model.

[ajoso]

How different are the bodies on these things for sound? I mean, one thought I have is - if I change out the pickups on the Les Paul, will that just make it sound pretty much like the Hamer? (And wouldn't buying the Hamer just be a cheaper way of getting at the pups?)

And: I don't really know what "creamy, mountain, and free" means. (I'm new to the guitar world - mostly played jazz piano in my previous life, though I'm lovin' the guitar way more these days.) I can't get a feel from these forums - are the Hamer's more hard-rock/Strat-direction than the LP's, or are they rich 'n warm 'n open to bluesy sort'a things.

Most Hamers aren't more Straty/hard rock than a Gibson. Guitars are defined by their materials and construction. Most Hamers fall into the "Gibson school" of guitar building: mahogany bodies (with or without a maple cap) and a glued-in mahogany neck. This gives it a darker, rounder tone than a Strat or Telecaster, which is made out of alder or ash, and has a bolt-on maple neck. Strats are characterized by a brighter, bell-like tone. If you want examples of these, just listen to the recordings of the great Gibson/Fender players. (You mentioned blues - who do you like?) BTW, Hamer makes/made a few Strat-like guitars as well.

Changing a pickup will not make your guitar sound like a Hamer. Changing pickups will only enhance or detract from the basic sound of the particular piece of wood that your guitar is made from. It will give your guitar an extra bit of sparkle perhaps.

One other grain of salt: this is a Hamer forum - of course we're all going to prefer Hamers to Gibsons!

[princeofdarkness56]

If you are fairly new to playing guitar I am sure you are influenced by the "status" of a gibson or fender. They have been arounf forever and all of the greats have played them at one time or another. But once you get past the status symbol and want something with soul and personality, you will find a Hamer in your future. They cost less, are consistently better made and sound better. Not to say that there are not Gibsons out there to die for, or kill for for that matter, but all an all, the Hamer is better. The only problem with Hamer's are the resale value compared to Gibson or fender and that has to do with snob appeall in my opinion. Goodluck on your quest.

[ajoso]

The only problem with Hamer's are the resale value compared to Gibson or fender and that has to do with snob appeall in my opinion. Goodluck on your quest.

I agree. But on the other hand a low resale value means that you can still find some killer deals on used Hamers out there. All depends on which side of the transaction you're on!

[Guest Buck Dharma]

I think Hamers are great but they don't sound like Les Pauls. If you like the sound of Les Pauls you need to buy one and it will probably be expensive to get a good one. They don't have the build quality that Hamer has. From the Hamers that I have had I like the sound of my FM Special more than the Studio custom that I had. Neither of them had the sustain of my Fatdog Black Beauty copy that cost me $200. I can't find a Gibson that I like more without spending $2000 either. But that is really rare to find a cheap guitar that is good like that one.

[unfun 75]

I've owned both guitars in question. The LP I bought was used and had been upgraded to Duncan HB's. That aside, the biggest difference in the two guitars is the feel. I liked the balance of the Hamer alot more than the Gibson. The Les Paul was uncomfortable to me. If you're comfortable with the LP, you may not like the Hamer.

FWIW, I think the Hamer is an all-around far superior guitar to the Les Paul Special, but that's not always the most important thing.