Ebay Auction Descriptions

[DavidE]

I just bought a PRS CE22 on Ebay that arrived today. Nice guitar, but I don't think it lived up to the auction description. The seller sees nothing wrong with his description and says that this guitar would be graded "excellent" by Elderly. Tell me if I'm totally off base. Here's his description:

beautiful 1996 prs ce-22.flame maple neck pics dont do it justice.great top for a ce.usually not this nice.i believe the color is vintage burst.this has the dragon 1 pups i like these much better then the dragon II pups.5 way selector whammy bar is included along with orig. hrdcse.in excellent cond.ther are some very small dings on the edges no buckle rash the only thing worth mentioning is 1 ding on the side it was filled by the previous owner.tried showing in the pic.you cant see it from the front.this really is a beutiful guitar. no fretwear everything works as it should.i got it on ebay last year been sitting around most of the time ive owned it.selling off some guitars.its a circle buyem sellem.check my other auctions .feel free to email any ?.the ser. # is 6714139 check my feedback im honest with all my auctions.use buy it now & i pay shipping in the cont. usa only please do not bid or ask if not in the USA

And here are the photos. I couldn't get it to show, but there are lots of scratches on the back that I would call buckle rash. Nothing through the finish or truly concentrated in one area.

The headstock:

The truss rod cover also appears to have been broken and repaired:

Seller didn't mention the worn off plating on some of the bridge saddles:

This is the "filled" ding on the side he thought was the only thing worth mentioning:

Is it fair to simply state there are some "very small dings on the edges?" He didn't specifically mention these gouges in the edge:

It's a pretty guitar and a player for sure, but am I wrong to believe that its condition was misrepresented? How would you grade it?

[atquinn]

I don't know what Elderly would grade it as, but I certainly wouldn't call it "excellent" if it was my auction, I would have said it was in good condition. I think he was o.k. in describing the little dings around the edge, but that description doesn't really mean much without pictures of each ding. Also, if the scratches on the back aren't through the finish, I wouldn't have described it as buckle rash, but I would have mentioned there were scratches. Seems like a fairly typical eBay auction in that, whenever damage is mentioned and they don't specifically show a picture of it, you should generally assume it's twice as bad as they say it is, ask for pictures to verify, and specifically ask about other areas (headstock, back of the neck, fretwear) just to make sure they aren't "forgetting" anything. I'd probably try to return it if it was me or at least ask for a partial refund, although I don't know how far you'll get with either option.

-Austin

[khackenfort]

Good condition at best.... No way that's excellent!

I'd want to return that one!

Kevin

[Willie G. Moseley]

IMO most people don't look at instruments that close-up....but PRSs ain't average instruments. I think that the guitar would be "Very Good", max, primarily because of the dings....but don't get me involved. If Elderly got cited and there is no appraisal from that company, they might have some kind of legal recourse against the customer.

As for why I wouldn't want it known that I think it's VG, I was involved in a similar incident regarding an instrument's condition around 2000. A non-player/non-collector about 90 miles from my office had a late 50s LP Special that would have fit in a book I was working on with a photographer, and he wouldn't let me "temporarily purchase" it from his business with a credit card, hold the bill, and tear it up when I returned it. Other businesses had done such but he didn't; not really a big deal and I didn't fume.

What went wrong was that he made two appointments to have it photographed at the photo studio in Montgomery, AL when he was going to be in the area...and didn't show up both times.

A couple of years later, a music store got a letter from him asking if they were interested in it, and his missive included "The man who writes for the Vintage Guitars magazine told me this was the nicest Les Paul Special he has ever seen." The dealer got in touch w/ me, and I'd said no such thing (and I'd seen nicer Specials).

And the guy 90 miles from me quickly learned the meaning of the phrase "cease and desist", if he didn't already know.

[DavidE]

Again, I'm really just looking for a reality check to see if I'm off base.

To clarify, the Elderly reference came after I told him I thought the auction description was inaccurate. Here's his email to me:

hi dave sorry your disappointed with the guitar.i

thought it was in great shape.i basically used the

same dis. as the previous owner.like i said its the

same as when i got it.i paid$1200.+shipping.when i

sell guitars i go to elderly instruments web page they

have a cosmetic condition rating.this would be ex.

cond.once again i feel terrible you are disappointed

its the first time ive had a problem with 1 of my sold

guitars. mark

[marcnorth]

Good condition at best.

[kizanski]

Mint and pristine.

[Willie G. Moseley]

Last time Kiz went to the optometrist, the optometrist pointed to the letters on the chart on the wall and HE called 'em out to Kizanski, saying "True or false?"

[Guest Meshuggah]

Mint and pristine.

The guitar Kizno. The guitar.

Gidjet.

[ZR]

The guy was wrong to describe it that way. I just finished writing some lengthy emails to a prospective buyer of a guitar by taking him through pic by pic and dent by dent so he would know the true condition of it. I'd rather disclose more and make it sound bad than misrepresent it and have a problem later. I guess I would call that one "good".

[Guest pirateflynn]

Yeah, I'd be disappointed. That's an inaccurate description.

[DavidE]

So, what now? I believe the seller thought he was giving a good description of the guitar even if he did not.

But apparently I'm not off my rocker here.

[jerseydrew]

I would rate it VG at best. What are you're options? I doubt that you can return it. Did you pay with Paypal?

[cordroad]

How's it sound and play?

[DavidE]

I would rate it VG at best. What are you're options? I doubt that you can return it. Did you pay with Paypal?

Yeah, paid with paypal and my AMEX (good protection there). It plays well (I need to put heavier strings on) but I couldn't plug it in before my wife went to bed.

[DavidE]

I guess all I can do is leave negative feedback at this point.

Here's his response to the photos.

nice pics if you go over anything with a magnifying glass you'll find something.are you going to play it or put it in a glass case.you could play this guitar for 2 years & still sell it for what you paid.buy a new one next time if your so picky.

[Scooter]

For an 11 year old guitar, the condition looks VG+.

[BubbaVO]

I guess all I can do is leave negative feedback at this point.

Here's his response to the photos.

nice pics if you go over anything with a magnifying glass you'll find something.are you going to play it or put it in a glass case.you could play this guitar for 2 years & still sell it for what you paid.buy a new one next time if your so picky.

What's the name of that seller? I don't think I'll want to do business with him based on your experience.

[DavidE]

For an 11 year old guitar, the condition looks VG+.

Scooter: how is age relevant to condition? A 25 year old guitar can be mint and a 2 month old guitar can be dinged and dented down to good or poor condition. The age of the guitar is irrelevant to grading the condition.

[ZR]

It's funny. People can look at things so differently. For instance, I just bought a US Dean Hardtail. It's a beautiful guitar. It's serial number is signed #3 by Dean Zelinsky. It was the first publicly available (the first 2 were rock star guitars). The guy said it was in mint shape, hardly played which was true. But, when I got it I was a little disapointed because it had a little bleed through where the blue finish of the quilt maple top meets the natural wood binding and some of the edges of the frets had a milky look to them under the clearcoat which seems to maybe be a reaction to glue used during the fret job? That's one thing I found as I researched about it. Anyway, he was a beginning guitarist with money and had nice guitars. Even though I would have disclosed these areas if I had sold the guitar I didn't hold him accountable about it because I didn't expect him to see these things. I will have to disclose them if I ever sell and will probably take a hit ($) for it but that's how I do business. It's such a nice instrument otherwise that hopefully I won't have to sell it. I mean it really gets some incredible sounds and resonates so nicely even when just played acoustically.

[DavidE]

Is there a difference between "issues" that existed when the guitar was brand new and factory mint as opposed to damage incurred from playing? I think these things are much more obvious to anyone.

[AdmiralB]

It's serial number is signed #3 by Bruce Zelinsky.

He makes those "Bruce" guitars, right?

Dave, Elderly would call that dead mint. They're the worst overgraders east of the Mississippi. Well, except for Daddy's.

[ZR]

It's serial number is signed #3 by Bruce Zelinsky.

He makes those "Bruce" guitars, right?

Dave, Elderly would call that dead mint. They're the worst overgraders east of the Mississippi. Well, except for Daddy's.

HaHa!!! I'm an idiot! I've just been talking to a guy about my Zinky speaker on auction and Bruce Zinky so I think I have them confused!! I'll edit the original post but you guys can still laugh at me with the quoted text above!! 100 times on the chalkboard "Dean Zelinksy, Dean Zelinsky..."

Man, if it really says Bruce Z then I've been ripped!!

[El Kabong]

Last time Kiz went to the optometrist, the optometrist pointed to the letters on the chart on the wall and HE called 'em out to Kizanski, saying "True or false?"

Willie G. for the win!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ZR]

Is there a difference between "issues" that existed when the guitar was brand new and factory mint as opposed to damage incurred from playing? I think these things are much more obvious to anyone.

Well, I guess you'd have to see detailed close-up pics to understand that the blue-finish bleed through is slight and only in a few spots - hardly noticable. The fret thing is probably something that looked perfect at first then started happening over time. The finish on the edge of the fretboard is perfectly clear but you can see that some frets are a perfect "T" as looking from the side and others have that cloudiness around the stalk of the T. Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age but I just didn't feel like he was trying to deceive me. I think most guys on this board would notice and mention stuff like this but some beginning guitarist probably just sees an awesome looking guitar...