Mahogany Guitars, Hamer's Specifically

[dhuber]

I own a few Hamer's an Artist and a Studio. I've played LP's and SG's. I know Chambering, Mahogany thickness, and a maple top will affect tone. Now I'm wondering about shape such as an Explorer or V design (I've never played and Explorer or V). So taking three Hamer's: a Studio, Explorer, and a Flying V, all 3 rosewood fret board, mahogany with a maple top, and same pickups. Could you tell the difference in tone?

[serial]

Too many variables. I personally think that pickups make more of a difference in the way a guitar sounds than subtle or slight variations in wood or shape. I honestly dont think most people would be able to tell much difference between three different shaped guitars made out of the same wood types and if they could, they'd probably be lying.

[murkat]

absolutely.

Thou each piece of wood is different being same, weight, grain structure, density,

Still, there is a sonic quality of a body shape.

[crunchee]

I've often thought about the same thing...I've had a mid '90's Hamer Special with factory SD JB and '59 pickups and a mid '90's Hamer Standard (Explorer shape) with the same pickups, same type bridge, all mahogany construction, but completely different body shape and headstock arrangement. I'd A/Bed them when I had both, was there a difference in sound? Yes. But it was subtle, like serial says, definitely different but if I had to describe HOW different I'd have a tough time. Doing an A/B recording would definitely help, but you'd probably get more opinions than hard facts out of it. Which is best? All up to personal preference, IMHO. But that being said, I had a '80 Special with a Sustain Block bridge and original Dimarzio pickups, and a much newer Kurt Wilson Thunderbolt...completely different body shape (and how!) and similar but different brand pickups, but three piece neck construction, all mahogany, and 3x3 headstock tuner configuration, and a newer Hamer Sustain Block bridge (nearly identical to the one on the '80 Special). The sound was MUCH different.

A big +1 on what murkat says. All wood is different, even if it is the same type, or even if it comes from the same tree. I'd think that the only way to get a close to consistent body material is to make them out of the same stuff where you can control all of the variables that murkat mentioned, like graphite.

Here's a study that was done, I don't think they took into account all of the variables so it's sort of a flawed study, but I haven't gotten all the way through the Powerpoint slides yet (too many memories of 'Death by Powerpoint' sessions in the past, I think I'm allergic to it). Still, they tried. It would have been nice on the Hummingbird if they mentioned what kind of saddle it had (glued in vs. adjustable):

http://www.kettering...ussell/guitars/

[serial]

Crunchee said what I was thinking. Sure, an Explorer will sound different than a Vee if it used wood from the same tree, same pickups, bridge, amp settings, etc, but it's nearly impossible to control those variables based on wood alone.

I had a korina Vector that sounded almost identical to my 79 Sunburst. Both mahogany guitars, but different pickups... In other words, in my experience, it's very difficult to get two different guitars to sound the same unless it's a Fender product

[zorrow]

Cannot say about the other shapes, but I do have some experience with Explorers and V-shaped guitars. However, what I'm about to say here still qualifies as cork sniffing, as other factors (such as the pups, the effects, the amp and even the cables and the setup) are way more important than just the shape. Also, these are just my personal impressions, so they are just what they are. Now, after this disclaimer, here I go:

I've played several Explorers through my rig -Gibson, Peavey and Epis, plus two import Standards. Of course, I've also played a lot of Vees, as it's my shape of choice -Dean, Gibson, Epiphone, Hamer...

In general, the Explorer-shaped guitars sound "ballsier" to me. They have more punch, tend to give a "fuller", more "vibrant" sound... On the other hand, the Vees are more "mid-rangey". I think their lead sound is a bit more "vocal" and the attack slightly better defined. The Vees also give a certain "Straty" color to their tone, specially the old 80 Vectors, with their sustainblock bridges.

Of course, one might compare two specific guitars side-to-side, one V-shaped and the other Explorer-shaped, and might arrive to quite different conclusions. But in general, I do think the Explorers are closer to the Les Paul than Vees.

[dhuber]

In general, the Explorer-shaped guitars sound "ballsier" to me. They have more punch, tend to give a "fuller", more "vibrant" sound... On the other hand, the Vees are more "mid-rangey". I think their lead sound is a bit more "vocal" and the attack slightly better defined. The Vees also give a certain "Straty" color to their tone, specially the old 80 Vectors, with their sustainblock bridges.

Again I've never played them, but this would make sense to me. I'm guessing the Explorer has the most amount of wood. The Vee has a lot of wood but it seperates and moves away from the pickups and there is not a lot of wood around the pickups. Again I'm probably full of it. I was just thinking about this today.

[hamerhead]

I was surprised by the 'snap' of an all mahogany Standard. Much different than a Special or similar shape.

[tomteriffic]

I've got 3 Standards, ranging from an all mahogany 1-piece body from 1997 to a 2006 with a quilt top. There's a goldtop with a rock maple top in between. I've taken all three out and A/B/C 'ed them several times. All have the same pickups and the primary difference is the tops. a;though the two newer ones are chambered. There's a noticeable difference in the general tonal "center" of each of them. Not big, but noticeable. Surprisingly, the "brightest" if you will is the all-mahogany one. But it has had several more years to cure than the other two. That is followed by the rock maple goldtop with the quilt top being the darkest. I was frankly surprised about the MahStand being the brightest, expecting that the goldtop would be the brightest. But the darker tonal center of the quilt top, at least relative to the goldtop was about what I expected, since the quilt maple is a bit softer than the rock maple top.

My $0.02, closed track, professional driver, YMMV, do not attempt at home, etc.

And yeah, the MahStand has a snappier tone than a couple of otherwise similar Specials. Still, pickups, bridge, all that stuff has a bearing. I have a Special that I put firebird pickups in and also an Eclipse. They sound different and have different shapes, but one has a TOM, the other a Wilky wraparound, so I can't point to the shape being the difference, due to the differences in the bridges.

[zorrow]

Found this quite interesting:

http://www.kettering.edu/physics/drussell/guitars/index.html

http://www.kettering.edu/physics/drussell/guitars/guitars-ASA.pdf

No info about the Vee though.

[zorrow]

A couple of more comments:

According to things I've read/heard in the past, many think Vees tend to produce tones EQ-ed on the upper-mid range, which would make them naturally "cut through the mix" better than other Gibson-invented shapes. I personally share that opinion, but I'm biased, as I play Vees.

Trying to be impartial though, I would classify the main shapes as follows, going from "ballsier" to "thinner" sounding:

1- Les Paul

2- Explorer

3- Flying V

4- SG

The body mass is probably a big factor -e.g., we all know SG have thin bodies.

Also, symmetrical shapes (Vees, SG, Specials, etc.) seem to have less "dead spots" problems -but I'm just talking from personal experience and comments from other fellow players, which of course is NOT statistically valid.

As a final note, I often apply "The Steve Vai Test"* and I think I hear consonant intervals more often in symmetrical shapes than in other shapes -but again, never compiled actual data about this.

Anyway, hope you'll have fun considering all those variables (in addition to ergonomic characteristics and look) in order to find your shape of choice, but to me there's only one word that will rule: taste. Then, you'll use everything else to justify it.

PS: *"The Steve Vai Test" (for those who have never heard about it): You knock the body and the neck, preferably with the strings taken off, and verify if the interval you hear is consonant or dissonant. Consonant-sounding guitars tend to sound better.

[gorch]

The Steve Vai Test is an interesting thing. Other than that I would expect the Standard sound fuller. I have a custom (mahogany) and an import (alder). Both wings swing substantially and support the sound on the bottom end. You can feel the vibration right under your picking arm as it lays on the wing during playing.

[zorrow]

The Steve Vai Test is an interesting thing.

Steve Vai himself says that he's maybe FoS for believing such a thing, but that's something he does all the time anyway. My side, I think it's not BS at all. I even take note of the fundamentals I hear when knocking at my guitars' necks and bodies, and then place a little sticker with that info on their back plates. When recording a solo, I often chose the guitar based on the key and the info on its sticker -frequency fundamentals on the same key work better.

PS: Ok, I know. That's the ultimate cork sniffing practice, but I can't help it. LOL!

[dogsrock]

I thought Billy Gibbons just eq'ed his different guitars and pickups so everything sounded the same