LucSulla Posted June 5, 2021 Posted June 5, 2021 So I picked up an 82 LP Custom. It's kind of a gift to myself for a promotion at work, I guess. I was initially drawn to it because it seemed to have a two-piece top (which it does) but as I read more about 82s, that year seemed kinda neat due to the transitions going on. Three-piece maple neck but no volute. This one is more or less original, thought I'm definitely putting black speed knobs back on it. Right at 10 lb, which I'm fine with. Usual issues for guitars this age, mainly a lot of strippied wood screws that are going to get the toothpick and wood glue treatment. Tuners are replacements, and it could be that the hardware was switched to gold. I don't know for sure. I didn't exactly low-ball the guy, but I didn't really expect my initial bid to be accepted. I never know what's a "keeper" until I play some gigs with it, but I should be OK should I need to move it on. Only real problem I see at the moment is that the high E frets out past the 12th with aggressive bends. It has been refretted, but it seems to be a pretty good job. I imagine a set up will cure that. Looking forward to playing it a bit at a few shows this week. Anyway, my main quandary is figuring out what the hell these pickups are. I've only got pics of the top, but I can take more when I restring it at some point. They are GIbson, and they are older. The have the "Pat. No. 2737843" on the back with no other stickers or markings, which is why I'm sure they are Gibson. The wires are braided shield wire and the spacers are black. Resistance is 7.8 for the bridge and 7.7 for the neck. While there is no way to be sure, they don't seem to have ever been covered either. The bobbins are what are throwing me off though. All the Gibson pickups from the era seem to have three holes in each coil bobbin, as such: However, mine do not. The tops have no markings of any kind. They sound good, whatever they are, particularly on cleans, so I don't really care beyond just wanting to know what is in there for documentation's sake. I was surprised to pull them last night and see they were Gibsons to begin with.
LucSulla Posted June 5, 2021 Author Posted June 5, 2021 Oh, and bonus round - what the hell kind of strap button is this? 😂
LucSulla Posted June 5, 2021 Author Posted June 5, 2021 13 minutes ago, Biz Prof said: Early Schaller strap lock button, perhaps? That's my best guess, but I can't find a picture. I have some from around 2002 that are still very different. Whoever owned this before the guy who sold it was a particular sort of person. The pickup cavities and and control panel are all shielded with copper. Also has some pretty pricey caps in it, and the pots were changed to 500k. If I were a dick, I'd give the seller some shit over the "otherwise all original" bit, haha. But I think these are all actual upgrades for once, so I'm not being that guy. I think I may have to replace two of the pots though, which sucks. They work, but no longer sweep fully and are finicky about going out at the top and bottom. It sucks because whoever did the soldering was very economical with his wire runs. Pretty tidy all in all with a few iron scars here and there, but I do that too. I love digging around in older guitars and finding stuff like this. My general sense is this was a well maintained guitar by someone pretty specific about what they were going for. My current guess is that the pickups are the budget option "PU490" that predated the 490R/T (and I'm aware that technically all humbuckers from Gibson used to be PU490). The bobbins still look different, but I don't think they are Shaws either. No clue really, but they sound fucking killer. Whatever combo of pots, caps, and pickups that ended up in here, this guitar has the most chimy clean tone I've ever heard on a Lester.
DaveH Posted June 5, 2021 Posted June 5, 2021 3 hours ago, LucSulla said: Anyway, my main quandary is figuring out what the hell these pickups are. I've only got pics of the top, but I can take more when I restring it at some point. They are GIbson, and they are older. The have the "Pat. No. 2737843" on the back with no other stickers or markings, which is why I'm sure they are Gibson. The wires are braided shield wire and the spacers are black. Resistance is 7.8 for the bridge and 7.7 for the neck. While there is no way to be sure, they don't seem to have ever been covered either. The bobbins are what are throwing me off though. All the Gibson pickups from the era seem to have three holes in each coil bobbin, as such: I'd be more concerned with why that pup on the bottom is so much bigger, and how much wood I was going to have to hack out to make it fit. 😂😂😂 Sorry, can't help with the pups... But congrats on a great looking axe!
tbonesullivan Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 I would guess those are Gibson pickups from the late 80s or 1990s. I looked at some SG specials from 1990, and they have the bobbins with no holes. Anyway, congrats on the promotion, and nice score!
LucSulla Posted June 6, 2021 Author Posted June 6, 2021 21 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said: I would guess those are Gibson pickups from the late 80s or 1990s. I looked at some SG specials from 1990, and they have the bobbins with no holes. Anyway, congrats on the promotion, and nice score! I've gotten as far as finding out they are "tooling holes," though I believe the big manufacturers use them more to look vintage than because they need them for winding the pups. I think you're right. To be honest, I couldn't really give a rip as far as playing about Shaws vs. Dirty Fingers vs. T Tops and so on. The only reason I wish they would have been Shaws was simply for resale value. For the most part, I can get on pretty well with any decent, medium-output humbucker. Some I like more than others of course, but as long as they aren't too muddy or shrill, I usually just roll off or on a little of whatever on the amp EQ.
Travis Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 11 minutes ago, LucSulla said: I've gotten as far as finding out they are "tooling holes," though I believe the big manufacturers use them more to look vintage than because they need them for winding the pups. I think you're right. To be honest, I couldn't really give a rip as far as playing about Shaws vs. Dirty Fingers vs. T Tops and so on. The only reason I wish they would have been Shaws was simply for resale value. For the most part, I can get on pretty well with any decent, medium-output humbucker. Some I like more than others of course, but as long as they aren't too muddy or shrill, I usually just roll off or on a little of whatever on the amp EQ. Medium output is where it’s at. I find they work great with amps of all types, high gain, low gain, etc. respond well to boosts. You want cleans, roll back the volume on the guitar. Congrats on the score. I find myself keeping coming back to this post to look at your pics. Just something about a plain maple top, no figuring. In a post PRS-10 top world, the plain tops seem to be a bit more out of the norm, which I love.
LucSulla Posted June 6, 2021 Author Posted June 6, 2021 57 minutes ago, Travis said: Medium output is where it’s at. I find they work great with amps of all types, high gain, low gain, etc. respond well to boosts. You want cleans, roll back the volume on the guitar. Congrats on the score. I find myself keeping coming back to this post to look at your pics. Just something about a plain maple top, no figuring. In a post PRS-10 top world, the plain tops seem to be a bit more out of the norm, which I love. Thanks! While it still has it's Norlin... excentricities (notice the upper bout was cut a little flat), it plays really nice and isn't TOO heavy. I've been wanting a plain top Lester for awhile, and while I wouldn't say this was the deal of the century, I don't think I'm into it for any more than I could get back out of it. And I thought the two-piece top was rare enough to not only look nice, but at least be a bit of an oddity from that era. I know there are more out there, but I haven't seen a whole lot of run-of-the-mill LPCs from those years with them. Plus, in a weird way, I like that it's already been refretted and futzed with. I don't really have to worry about keeping anything original, like my other one, so I can just do whatever I want to the electronics and not really care.
Travis Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 30 minutes ago, LucSulla said: Thanks! While it still has it's Norlin... excentricities (notice the upper bout was cut a little flat), it plays really nice and isn't TOO heavy. I've been wanting a plain top Lester for awhile, and while I wouldn't say this was the deal of the century, I don't think I'm into it for any more than I could get back out of it. And I thought the two-piece top was rare enough to not only look nice, but at least be a bit of an oddity from that era. I know there are more out there, but I haven't seen a whole lot of run-of-the-mill LPCs from those years with them. Plus, in a weird way, I like that it's already been refretted and futzed with. I don't really have to worry about keeping anything original, like my other one, so I can just do whatever I want to the electronics and not really care. Nope. In my mind you got the perfect LPC. You don’t have to worry about keeping it stock to preserve its value and you can most likely get out of it what you paid into it. Play the shit out of it for a couple of years and sell it off I’d you want. “Free trial”....
LucSulla Posted June 6, 2021 Author Posted June 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, Travis said: Nope. In my mind you got the perfect LPC. You don’t have to worry about keeping it stock to preserve its value and you can most likely get out of it what you paid into it. Play the shit out of it for a couple of years and sell it off I’d you want. “Free trial”.... The last one I bought I've had for 22 years. It caused me rushing this, lol. I was playing it the other night, as I posted here, and thought, "why do you have so much other stuff! This is your bread and butter and always has been." I had been casually looking for a couple of months. I didn't want another wine red one, and the white ones are just too much. Black's cool, but that Hamer I got is about as pretty as a black guitar gets, at least to me. Damn thing reminds me of really nice grand piano with the black and cream binding/pups. This one popped up with the two piece top (which I actually thought was probably three until I got it), and I figured I'd roll an offer out there. You could tell it had been messed around with, but the tinkering all had signs of being done because someone was using it. Plus, those little ass frets on LPCs in those years sucked anyway, lol. I'll gladly lose the nibs for a good refret with some beef.
murkat Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 AWESOME LPC score! Very nice! You might have Gibson pickup bezels, but I do not think you have gibson bobbins for pickups. Back in time there was not a lot of love for T Tops. The hotter the better. Possibly someone frankenstien'd some pickups...
Drew816 Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 Can't help with the pickups but wow, awesome looking LPC! Congrats and enjoy!
LucSulla Posted June 6, 2021 Author Posted June 6, 2021 4 hours ago, murkat said: AWESOME LPC score! Very nice! You might have Gibson pickup bezels, but I do not think you have gibson bobbins for pickups. Back in time there was not a lot of love for T Tops. The hotter the better. Possibly someone frankenstien'd some pickups... If I knew anything about identifying parts in pickups, I'd take one apart and see what's in there. But I don't, haha. I emailed the guy who sold it yesterday, but it's just something he got cheap and flipped apparently. He didn't know anything about the caps and pups. Seemed like a nice enough guy, so I don't think there was anything mendacious going on there. The guy who owned it before took the time to get the values and put them on masking tape he affixed to the rear of each pickup. Probably sounds like I'm fishing for some ultra rare, expensive pickup I have. I'm not, and don't think they are. But it seems someone took some time with the electronics, couple of soldering iron burns aside. Be cool to know exactly what was going on there or even what kind of music it was used for.
tbonesullivan Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 18 hours ago, LucSulla said: I've gotten as far as finding out they are "tooling holes," though I believe the big manufacturers use them more to look vintage than because they need them for winding the pups. I think you're right. To be honest, I couldn't really give a rip as far as playing about Shaws vs. Dirty Fingers vs. T Tops and so on. The only reason I wish they would have been Shaws was simply for resale value. For the most part, I can get on pretty well with any decent, medium-output humbucker. Some I like more than others of course, but as long as they aren't too muddy or shrill, I usually just roll off or on a little of whatever on the amp EQ. One hole I think is for tooling, and the other two are for attaching the bobbin to the base plate through a spacer. I could totally see how Gibson might decide to just remove them for a while, and then people complained, so they put the holes back. https://reverb.com/item/24391112-1989-gibson-sg-special-standard-vintage-electric-guitar-black-gold-great-player-s-guitar https://reverb.com/item/40975504-1991-gibson-sg-special-ferrari-red-electric-guitar https://reverb.com/item/39717700-gibson-sg-special-1989-black Now it's possible that all of these had aftermarket pickups added, or that they were rewound. After all, one of the previous owners was "that type of guy" who would put copper foil shielding tape inside. I could see them sending them out to rewind on the original bass plates, but having new bobbins and pole pieces added.
LucSulla Posted June 6, 2021 Author Posted June 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said: One hole I think is for tooling, and the other two are for attaching the bobbin to the base plate through a spacer. I could totally see how Gibson might decide to just remove them for a while, and then people complained, so they put the holes back. https://reverb.com/item/24391112-1989-gibson-sg-special-standard-vintage-electric-guitar-black-gold-great-player-s-guitar https://reverb.com/item/40975504-1991-gibson-sg-special-ferrari-red-electric-guitar https://reverb.com/item/39717700-gibson-sg-special-1989-black Now it's possible that all of these had aftermarket pickups added. The pups in that Gold SG are the Bill Lawrence pups Gibson used for a couple of years.
tbonesullivan Posted June 6, 2021 Posted June 6, 2021 1 minute ago, LucSulla said: The pups in that Gold SG are the Bill Lawrence pups Gibson used for a couple of years. AH!!! Missed that. Yeah I guess those could also be the HB-R and HB-L pickups. Maybe they used the bobbins from those?
LucSulla Posted June 6, 2021 Author Posted June 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said: AH!!! Missed that. Yeah I guess those could also be the HB-R and HB-L pickups. Maybe they used the bobbins from those? Maybe so. I think they are probably both the generic 490s that predated the 490R/T that came later. I doubt they are Shaws due to the lack of ink stamp or sticker, and they obviously aren't T Tops. I'd also guess that they aren't original to the guitar, unless it was a custom order, which I also doubt because it has a Nashville serial. I believe the LPCs all came with the Shaws standard in 82.
tbonesullivan Posted June 7, 2021 Posted June 7, 2021 30 minutes ago, LucSulla said: Maybe so. I think they are probably both the generic 490s that predated the 490R/T that came later. I doubt they are Shaws due to the lack of ink stamp or sticker, and they obviously aren't T Tops. I'd also guess that they aren't original to the guitar, unless it was a custom order, which I also doubt because it has a Nashville serial. I believe the LPCs all came with the Shaws standard in 82. I believe so, and they were not as well regarded then as they are now. Of course I'm someone who thinks the stock 490R /498T set they put in current LPCs sounds good, so I'm not the best person to ask.
LucSulla Posted June 7, 2021 Author Posted June 7, 2021 27 minutes ago, tbonesullivan said: I believe so, and they were not as well regarded then as they are now. Of course I'm someone who thinks the stock 490R /498T set they put in current LPCs sounds good, so I'm not the best person to ask. Now that you say that, I put a pair of old 490R/498Ts in my buddy's guitar that I'd had forever. They were covered, so no idea about the bobbins, but the resistance was similar, and these do sound a helluvalot like those.
Disturber Posted June 7, 2021 Posted June 7, 2021 Is the plastic on those bobbins kinda not smooth but more textured. And does the bobbins have little plastic "legs". Then they are early 80's Gibson humbuckers with Schaller bobbins. I hade one that I sold last year. Cool pickups. Might have ceramic magnets though. But that is an easy fix. https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/gibson-humbucker-with-schaller-bobbins.153317/
LucSulla Posted June 7, 2021 Author Posted June 7, 2021 9 hours ago, Disturber said: Is the plastic on those bobbins kinda not smooth but more textured. And does the bobbins have little plastic "legs". Then they are early 80's Gibson humbuckers with Schaller bobbins. I hade one that I sold last year. Cool pickups. Might have ceramic magnets though. But that is an easy fix. https://www.mylespaul.com/threads/gibson-humbucker-with-schaller-bobbins.153317/ Holy shit, I think you nailed it. The bobbins are textured, and they look just like those. I'll have to double check the legs, but what I saw from the outside could very easily be those legs. I didn't take the plate off, but my "black spacers" could be those legs. I don't think they're hot enough to be ceramic. They really do sound a helluvalot lot the 490r/490t pickups, though the bobbins are different from those as well. Years line up as well. I think Shaws started getting used in LPCs in 82 and SGs in 83, though they were around in some limited edition guitars prior. I think this is a very possible solution.
Disturber Posted June 7, 2021 Posted June 7, 2021 17 minutes ago, LucSulla said: Holy shit, I think you nailed it. The bobbins are textured, and they look just like those. I'll have to double check the legs, but what I saw from the outside could very easily be those legs. I didn't take the plate off, but my "black spacers" could be those legs. I don't think they're hot enough to be ceramic. They really do sound a helluvalot lot the 490r/490t pickups, though the bobbins are different from those as well. Years line up as well. I think Shaws started getting used in LPCs in 82 and SGs in 83, though they were around in some limited edition guitars prior. I think this is a very possible solution. Check if they have ceramic mags. Mine had one. I was about to change it to an A2. But I went with an older set of 57 Classics for my LP. If you swap to alnico mags in those humbuckers I am sure they will sound pretty fine.
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