Bridge HB to go with Phat Cat neck in a Talladega?

[polara]

I'm still wrestling with the tort-bound Talladega I bought. Great neck. Light. Feels great. But it came (from the factory, employee-ordered) with Custom Customs in neck and bridge. Way too mid-rangely and murky n the neck position, so I put a Phat Cat in its place. I'm quite happy with it. Nicely loud, balanced, good pickup.

The CC in the bridge is so focused on mids though. It sounds GREAT with distortion, but clean is kinda honky and muffled. If I jack up the highs on the amp to brighten it, the neck pickup suffers. I'm thinking, from having a guitar with Seth Lovers long ago, that this would be a good match to go in the bridge. Below are the deets on what I'm after. Maybe @zenmindbeginner would have insights. I reckon Josh could whip up something too, but I have to believe Duncan has something off the shelf that would work.

1. Guitar: Talladega (chambered mahogany, thick maple top, maple neck, 25.5" scale, Sustain Block bridge). The acoustic sound is pretty open and balanced, not dull but not Strat sparkly.
2. Amps: Two Tweed things, a Goodsell 5F2A with a 12" speaker and a Swart Spacetone. Also on the "balanced" side, not that bright or bottom-heavy.
3. The sounds I want: I need some nice lively cleans. Not jangly trebly Byrds cleans, but enough chime up top to be "pretty" in a post-rock way. Think Interpol, Explosions in the Sky, Mogwai, Godspeed You! Black Emperor, Sigur Ros. We do a lot of stuff where we go from pretty to hitting a fuzz and doing filthy sounds.
4. Pickups I've liked: I have a Jaguar American Professional with "v-mod" pickups. Fender guys said they were too hot and mid-rangey to be true Jaguar pickups, which is why I like them. Also my Fano has TV Jones Supertrons I like, and those also are hotter and more mid-rangey than the usual Gretsch sound. So I tend to like pickups without a big emphasis on any one frequency, in a "vintage-but-a-littel-hotter" range.

Seth Lover? Antiquity? A second Phat Cat?

Thanks!

[Jakeboy]

You could throw a vintage wind Firebird bridge pickup in there. They make adapter rings that look fine. I have used them on my Artist Korina…and may go back. Bright and clear with chime, but not overly midrangey. I would make sure to get a 60s vintage wind with good alnico mags. And I’d go unpotted too, for clarity. Rumpel and Gravelin can make them, and SD Antiquities are well spoken of.

[Travis]

I used a Duncan custom shop “Brobucker” in the bridge of my Tally for years, paired with the stock neck pickup. It was from the first run of pickups that were made for the Duncan users group forum. It was so well received that Duncan started offering it as a custom order a few years ago. It’s a 10k A5 mid range hot PAF style pickup and it just KILLED in the bridge of that guitar. And it matched really well with the stock neck pickup.  

https://customshop.seymourduncan.com/brobucker/

I actually had two over them over the years. Only reason why I took them out and sold them was because I put my Tally back to stock and had Josh wind me pickups for all of my other guitars. 

However, I don’t think it would be the right pickup for what you’re describing. That level output matched well but I wouldn’t go any hotter than that, like with the Custom series you’re taking out. 

I would suggest something to mellow out the highs of the Tally that come from the 25.5” maple neck and the sustain block. If you didn’t like the midrangeyness of the A2 Custom/Custom then I might not suggest the Seth/Antiquity or even an A2 pro…. An A5 magnet might be closer to what you’re looking for. A 59 is pretty cheap and readily available. In most guitars I’ve thought the 59 was an adequate pickup but it might just work really well in the Tally given how great the A5 brobucker was…

If you got a 59 with an aged A5 or a Seth Lover with an A5 magnet swap, that could be killer…

[polara]

14 minutes ago, Travis said:

I used a Duncan custom shop “Brobucker” in the bridge of my Tally for years, paired with the stock neck pickup. It was from the first run of pickups that were made for the Duncan users group forum. It was so well received that Duncan started offering it as a custom order a few years ago. It’s a 10k A5 mid range hot PAF style pickup and it just KILLED in the bridge of that guitar. And it matched really well with the stock neck pickup.  

https://customshop.seymourduncan.com/brobucker/

I actually had two over them over the years. Only reason why I took them out and sold them was because I put my Tally back to stock and had Josh wind me pickups for all of my other guitars. 

However, I don’t think it would be the right pickup for what you’re describing. That level output matched well but I wouldn’t go any hotter than that, like with the Custom series you’re taking out. 

I would suggest something to mellow out the highs of the Tally that come from the 25.5” maple neck and the sustain block. If you didn’t like the midrangeyness of the A2 Custom/Custom then I might not suggest the Seth/Antiquity or even an A2 pro…. An A5 magnet might be closer to what you’re looking for. A 59 is pretty cheap and readily available. In most guitars I’ve thought the 59 was an adequate pickup but it might just work really well in the Tally given how great the A5 brobucker was…

If you got a 59 with an aged A5 or a Seth Lover with an A5 magnet swap, that could be killer…

Interesting... this is good input. I don't think I need any more brightness at all. It's just that in my (limited) experience the Custom Custom is the bee's knees for a rockin' mid-gain Van Halen kind of sound, but clean it's so mid-focused it sounds almost... rubbery.  The idea of a mini-bucker is intriguing... while the RATIONAL thing is probably just another Phat Cat for the bridge, but there is an appeal to a nice humbucker with some clarity to it. Keep the ideas coming!

[Travis]

17 minutes ago, polara said:

Interesting... this is good input. I don't think I need any more brightness at all. It's just that in my (limited) experience the Custom Custom is the bee's knees for a rockin' mid-gain Van Halen kind of sound, but clean it's so mid-focused it sounds almost... rubbery.  The idea of a mini-bucker is intriguing... while the RATIONAL thing is probably just another Phat Cat for the bridge, but there is an appeal to a nice humbucker with some clarity to it. Keep the ideas coming!

I agree 100% on the Custom-Custom/Van Halen thing…

I’ve always thought the 59 worked best as a bridge pickup. And it works great with both low and high gain settings.

It was too woofy for me in the neck cuz of the way it’s eq’d tho. I had Josh rewind the neck 59 in my Mirage II and swap in an A4 mag and now it’s perfect. Gains a little more clarity, almost like a Duncan Jazz and loses that woofiness, but remains just smooth enough in the upper registers that it solos amazingly with higher gain but is pristine clean as well. 

[hamerhead]

1 hour ago, polara said:

...a nice humbucker with some clarity to it...

The Antiquities in the 30th Anniversary were fantastic at that, but.....

It's the Gravelin Cowpie Custom all the way. It's clear like the Antiquity but with a thicker, just slightly rounded top that plays well with the Sustain Block. I switched out the P90 in my Shishkov (maple top/ Sustain Block) and it does the best no-compromise combination of clean and overdriven of any bridge pickup I've ever encountered.

For me personally, Josh couldn't have hit it any further out of the park.

[bubs_42]

In the end, I fear that its going to be the tone of the Sustainblock that you don't like. Hey Maple Neck, Maple Top, Rock Hard Brass Bridge, they have a distinct tone that you just can't put your finger on. I do recommend Alnico II for the bridge, the Custom Custom or a Pearly Gates or maybe the Original Alnico II Pro (Not the Slash). 

Josh is completely capable of winding your something to your taste with the guitars specs in consideration. The pickup wound for me on #0090 isn't alnico II but if I was putting it in a Sustainblock loaded guitar I would ask for a slightly lower wind and alnico II. 

Good luck with your struggle. 

[hamerhead]

5 minutes ago, bubs_42 said:

....going to be the tone of the Sustainblock that you don't like.

Shut your dirty whore mouth, butthole.

[bubs_42]

1 minute ago, hamerhead said:

Shut your dirty whore mouth, butthole.

Name one of the plethora of "Rock Stars" that sported a Hamer with a Sustainblock over the years that still uses one? 🤨

[hamerhead]

Name one that isn't on drugs.

[polara]

1 hour ago, bubs_42 said:

In the end, I fear that its going to be the tone of the Sustainblock that you don't like. Hey Maple Neck, Maple Top, Rock Hard Brass Bridge, they have a distinct tone that you just can't put your finger on. I do recommend Alnico II for the bridge, the Custom Custom or a Pearly Gates or maybe the Original Alnico II Pro (Not the Slash). 

Josh is completely capable of winding your something to your taste with the guitars specs in consideration. The pickup wound for me on #0090 isn't alnico II but if I was putting it in a Sustainblock loaded guitar I would ask for a slightly lower wind and alnico II. 

Good luck with your struggle. 

I liked my old Special with sustain block n Dimarzio 36th pickups. It’s not the brightness I dislike, and the neck pickup sounds good. That CC bridge pickup seems to have a reputation as ah, having an unusual voice though. 

[Travis]

18 minutes ago, hamerhead said:

Shut your dirty whore mouth, butthole.

I concur…. 😜

15 minutes ago, bubs_42 said:

Name one of the plethora of "Rock Stars" that sported a Hamer with a Sustainblock over the years that still uses one? 🤨

Me, in my own mind…. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Travis]

16 minutes ago, bubs_42 said:

Name one of the plethora of "Rock Stars" that sported a Hamer with a Sustainblock over the years that still uses one? 🤨

To add a bit more to this…. Many of the “rock stars” have some kind of endorsement or artist contract with various guitar manufacturers. With Hamer being defunct for some time now, it’s fair to say that even if a rock star or two was using their sustain block Hamer, they probably weren’t touring with it or playing it in public because of their contractual obligations. 

it’s possible, at least…

[hamerhead]

What Travis said.

[bubs_42]

13 hours ago, Travis said:

To add a bit more to this…. Many of the “rock stars” have some kind of endorsement or artist contract with various guitar manufacturers. With Hamer being defunct for some time now, it’s fair to say that even if a rock star or two was using their sustain block Hamer, they probably weren’t touring with it or playing it in public because of their contractual obligations. 

it’s possible, at least…

 

13 hours ago, hamerhead said:

What Travis said.

Bro's before the end it was the same way. I'm not talking about Hamer, just the bridge. It has a distinct sound, it does a specific thing, and you have to tune around it. 

A Sustainblock on a full mahogany guitar adds a bit of zip and detail to the tone. The Prototype does not sound correct without a Sustainblock. 

 

[Travis]

1 hour ago, bubs_42 said:

 

Bro's before the end it was the same way. I'm not talking about Hamer, just the bridge. It has a distinct sound, it does a specific thing, and you have to tune around it. 

A Sustainblock on a full mahogany guitar adds a bit of zip and detail to the tone. The Prototype does not sound correct without a Sustainblock. 

 

I mean…. This was posted just last month….

 

 

[hamerhead]

1 hour ago, bubs_42 said:

...It has a distinct sound, it does a specific thing, and you have to tune around it...

That's actually the beauty of it. And once it's tuned in it stays rock solid pretty much forever, unlike a TOM that whenever you change strings you have to re-adjust the bridge height because some oaf accidentally turned the damn height adjusters trying to clean the nastiness that wads up under it between the bridge pickup.

That's where the Cowpie Custom comes in. I have 2 Maple-topped, Ebony-boarded Sustain Block guitars that are, by nature, high-ended ice pick machines. Moving the polepieces forward on the G, B and E strings fattens them up and rounds them off while leaving the low E, A and G strings with some bite. Moving them that little bit really did make a big difference.

[bubs_42]

44 minutes ago, hamerhead said:

That's actually the beauty of it. And once it's tuned in it stays rock solid pretty much forever, unlike a TOM that whenever you change strings you have to re-adjust the bridge height because some oaf accidentally turned the damn height adjusters trying to clean the nastiness that wads up under it between the bridge pickup.

That's where the Cowpie Custom comes in. I have 2 Maple-topped, Ebony-boarded Sustain Block guitars that are, by nature, high-ended ice pick machines. Moving the polepieces forward on the G, B and E strings fattens them up and rounds them off while leaving the low E, A and G strings with some bite. Moving them that little bit really did make a big difference.

Which is good information for the OP, but if you were a builder trying to sell guitars it isn't the way to go. 

[bubs_42]

1 hour ago, Travis said:

I mean…. This was posted just last month….

 

 

A "Tribute" to one of his hero's, that is all that was/is. 

All I did was point out that the OP most likely hearing was not the pickup choice but the nature of the beast. @hamerheaddid a fine job of pointing out in fine detail how he got around the issue, and the cowpie pickup would work for that guitar. But if you as a player really like the sound of a traditional guitar, the Sustainblock is not a familiar sound. 

 

 

[cynic]

5 minutes ago, bubs_42 said:

if you as a player really like the sound of a traditional guitar, the Sustainblock is not a familiar sound. 

This in spades, but only in the best of ways.  For me, after owning most every model Hamer had to offer, the sustain block guitars are what I consider the Hamer voice.  Their other models were more run of the mill and could have had any other name on the headstock in terms of how it felt and sounded.  Sure, build quality was mostly better than average, but the sustain block is the only thing I found that made Hamer significantly unique to anything else I played.

As far as Tallys go, I tried a set of old WB Gregwinds and they were pretty much perfect.  I also had a set of The Creamery's wide-range humbuckers which sounded great and I told myself that was probably more of the sound the Duncan DD's were trying to capture but failed.  My other Tally also had some style of schamncy PAF but it's been so long ago I can't remember which ones, but in none of them did I ever experience the bridge being squashed or grating.  But, the sound I shoot for may just be the sound you hate.

I have plans within the next week to replace the Seth Lovers in my sustainblock Artist with a set of Gibson Alnico III Custom Buckers.  If that goes well I will have a set of Seth's available.

[Travis]

Was just playing my Tally for a while this morning, clean and with a little bit of fuzz via my OC42 bbb black glass. Glorious tones all around with the stock pickups. While the bridge pickup was definitely the brightest setting of all, it served a purpose for a Tele-like twang. But man, the neck pickup and the combo neck/bridge settings (both in parallel and series) were exquisite today. I spent most of the time in position 3 with both pickups in parallel, riding the volume knob a ton.

IF the Tally were my only guitar, I *might* drop a humbucker back in the bridge. But as it stands, it just offers something different from my other H/H guitars. And take it from Arby’s….   Different is good…

[bubs_42]

2 hours ago, cynic said:

 

I have plans within the next week to replace the Seth Lovers in my sustainblock Artist with a set of Gibson Alnico III Custom Buckers.  If that goes well I will have a set of Seth's available.

Let us know how that turns out. I really really love the original 57 Classics, I also have a Duncan Custom Custom in a guitar right now that just happen to come in it and was impressed. I've been saying over and over to myself for a while "Don't change anything, Don't change anything".  LOL 

[Travis]

35 minutes ago, bubs_42 said:

I've been saying over and over to myself for a while "Don't change anything, Don't change anything".  LOL 

[polara]

I ordered a Seth for the bridge,and it should come this week. Played for a while last night with the Phat/Custom C combo and it's still...

• Neck Phat Cat: like it. Fair bit of treble, solid low-end, not tons of mids. Interestingly, this is what the Seymour Duncan EQ grapic says for the Phat Cat.
• Bridge Custom Custom: badass with gain, really cuts with no shrillness. but clean is plunky, like a rubber guitar. Not a lot of zing or boom. Once again, Duncan has their little chart showing reduced highs and lows and a big mid emphasis
• Both: Not bad, actually. I could live with it, pretty lively. Makes sense, as they each fill in the gaps in the other.

Still, I'm going with past experience with Seths and with the fact that I usually play either clean, light Britpop breakup, or doom-fuzz. Never classic rawk sounds. Tone update soon. I want this to be a versatile guitar for all situations, and I think a big single-coil in front and a vintage-y humbucker in back might work out.

[Travis]

15 minutes ago, polara said:

I ordered a Seth for the bridge,and it should come this week. Played for a while last night with the Phat/Custom C combo and it's still...

• Neck Phat Cat: like it. Fair bit of treble, solid low-end, not tons of mids. Interestingly, this is what the Seymour Duncan EQ grapic says for the Phat Cat.
• Bridge Custom Custom: badass with gain, really cuts with no shrillness. but clean is plunky, like a rubber guitar. Not a lot of zing or boom. Once again, Duncan has their little chart showing reduced highs and lows and a big mid emphasis
• Both: Not bad, actually. I could live with it, pretty lively. Makes sense, as they each fill in the gaps in the other.

Still, I'm going with past experience with Seths and with the fact that I usually play either clean, light Britpop breakup, or doom-fuzz. Never classic rawk sounds. Tone update soon. I want this to be a versatile guitar for all situations, and I think a big single-coil in front and a vintage-y humbucker in back might work out.

Can’t wait to hear what you think!

[gorch]

A Phat Cats couple do a very good job. Give it a try.