nut adjust/filing

[Jimbilly]

I've had this guitar a long time (and yes, the strings are super old). It seems to be intonated well, my tuner shows it stays in tune as each fret is 'fretted', but it feels a little high at the first fret. I can get the .025 feeler gauge just under the strings at fret 1, which I'm reading is a fair bit higher than most recommend.  I do a decent setup, but I haven't done much nut adjust, I did buy a set of files quite a while ago. An option other than re filing each slot would be to try to remove the nut and file it down on the back?  What do y'all think?

[Dutchman]

Those are some nice nut files. Watch a few videos of filing the nut slots. You'll see your headed in the wrong direction and it's to much for my thumb to type. Stewart Mac has some good info. There are other Luthiers that show how very well also. Bright side is, it's just a nut. And it can replaced if you go to deep... 

I admire your willingness to learn and making mistakes is the price of learning!

[velorush]

I'm absolutely no luthier, but, when the open strings are in tune are the notes fretted on the first few frets sharp?  If not, nut height is not an issue (is it?).

 

[Jimbilly]

1 hour ago, velorush said:

I'm absolutely no luthier, but, when the open strings are in tune are the notes fretted on the first few frets sharp?  If not, nut height is not an issue (is it?).

 

That's where my confusion & hesitation is coming from; yeah, it would seem that the intonation might change if I mess with the nut, but if the nut is high the feel at the first couple of frets is going to be as if the strings are too high. Since the vibrating string length changes a small percentage when fretted at #1, it would seem that I should be able to lower that by something like .005 to .008 without messing up the intonation?

[cynic]

I'm not sure I've seen such deep nut slots before.

[Cboss]

That is an easy one, I have several guitars with that same nut.. order a graphTech Tusq XL, you size it by the overall width, the e to e, etc, file A LITTLE in a vise/install and measure, repeat till it's perfect for you, then glue it in.  I use light gorilla glue and use the strings as a clamp (just tune to pitch)..leave.it overnight and you're golden

1/2 hour process for me now, makes a big difference to playability

[Jeff R]

Depending on how deep you wanna go down the rabbit hole, there are some valuable tips for you in the 2019 post on my shop page linked below.

Pay VERY CLOSE attention to the halfsie pencil that I drag across the cowboy chord frets, to make a dummy crest line for what would be F0. I strongly recommend you make one for this job. Not only do you use it to make a DO NOT PASS line, it will give you a better idea as to how deep you want to go with your slotting files compared to the crest line.

EDITED TO ADD: Just dawned on me if you FIRST do the halfsie pencil test on one or two guitars you really like for playability that are similar to the one you're fixing, you will see how those guitars' nut slot depths compare to the crest of the pencil line. It will give you an idea of where the strings should sit in relation to the crest line.

A few file drags can go a long way and it's a hella lot easier to take away a little more than to put it back. Plan to make a coupla of file drags and recheck, couple of file drags, recheck, couple of file drags, recheck.

As you check your progress, play the guitar like you normally play. Ideal nut slot depth, like ideal neck relief, is a case by case thing relevant to the player. Light-handed finesse players can enjoy easier to fret, smaller fret-to-string gaps (action) compared to those who play their guitar like a drum kit. They need higher action everywhere including F0.

HFC content: The guitar I'm working on in the gallery is one of JGale's he shipped to me for TLC.

Linkie to the full gallery ... https://www.facebook.com/TheFretShack/posts/pfbid0GzUrXHeQcsYXpGm2YW4ps1U8ZfLwMjZCkru68jJJQz9XjatJGAgHLW9bYPfaBbeTl

[Tortious]

I see stuff like that ^^^ and I'm reminded not to ever attempt certain things myself.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

Tech's have different ways on setting nut height at the first fret. As a 'standard' rule, I set my gaps like so: low E = 0.3mm (top of fret to bottom of string) to high e = 0.2mm. This is with the neck relief set at around 0.25mm at the 6th fret (I gradiate down from 0.3mm low E to 0.2 high e: thus: A = 0.28mm, D = 0.26mm, G = 2.4mm, B = 2.2mm). I have always set my nut action like that and nothing plays sharp. You can go lower but I have found that this is a safe bet and nobody has ever returned a guitar when I have set first fret action at those measurements. For stupid low action, I set the low E at 0.2mm and the high e at 0.15mm. It is imperative that you use good nut slot files (I use a Hosco 11 set and these are the best I have used: I tried many)...

https://northwestguitars.co.uk/products/hosco-11-piece-nut-slotting-file-set-010-056

Apologies if you don't like mm: we use metric in England...

[hamerhead]

Damn Limeys.

[Cboss]

 

[Jimbilly]

I spent a little time on that boogie bodies guitar this morning, the nut popped out pretty easily, it had just a dab of glue on it. From how hard it is, and the smell, it is a bone nut. I filed a bit off the back, re-installed, checked, etc. A bit lower is really nice. I think I got it just where I want it.

 Coincidentally, the church I'm playing at has a 'house' bass, a mexi jazz bass, I offered to take a look at it about a week ago, just kids and guitar players play it, so they don't really have a baseline for what a bass should feel like, but they knew it needed something.  Someone had put a new replacement nut on it that was 'stock' height, and way too high!  I worked on that last Sunday afternoon, the nut was plastic and much easier to work with.  I can do a pretty good setup for an amateur, with that nut height close to correct that Jazz bass is a different instrument now.

  thanks all for the wisdom and encouragement!