Disappointed with Cream at RAH DVD

[HamerHokie]

Not the DVD itself, it looks great, it was free of annoying split second edits that infest some productions. Although there was one gratuitous shot of Jude Law and Sienna Miller in the audience.

But I guess I was expecting something different from the performance. I have no idea why Clapton chose the Strat/Tweed Twin combo for playing Cream. It made the band sound like Clapton circa '75. And Bruce's bass had no midrange to speak of, which left holes in the sound spectrum that weren't there in early Cream performances.

Had they gone with their vintage rigs, Marshalls and Gibsons instead of Fenders, it might have brought back some of the aggressiveness. But not much, because they have really mellowed with age and gave a really layed back performance overall.

[Jeff R]

I have no idea why Clapton chose the Strat/Tweed Twin combo for playing Cream.

I'd say his longtime Fender endorsement and the $$$$$ associated with it had something to do with the choice

[marcnorth]

Get the DVD of the farewell concert from 1968, It's much cheaper and better.

I was dissapointed with the new one too. I agree they should have used the vintage rigs. It would have sounded better to me.

[DavidE]

I have no idea why Clapton chose the Strat/Tweed Twin combo for playing Cream.

I'd say his longtime Fender endorsement and the $$$$$ associated with it had something to do with the choice

He used some of the old gear on his blues tour, despite his Fender endorsement. But he sold a lot of that gear off. But, he has plenty of other similar stuff.

[MCChris]

I'm no Clapton fan by any means; in fact I don't really care for anything he's done except Cream (yes this includes the Bluesbreaker stuff). And even then I'm way more into Free, Mountain and other such bands from that era. But they showed the RAH concert on public television a couple months ago and I really enjoyed it. Go figure. Didn't miss the period-correct gear at all, though I'm sure it would have made things better. E.C.'s just so far removed from that sound I don't think he'd even consider going back to it, even in the context of Cream.

[HamerHokie]

I have no idea why Clapton chose the Strat/Tweed Twin combo for playing Cream.

I'd say his longtime Fender endorsement and the $$$$$ associated with it had something to do with the choice

I'm sure it did, now that I think of it. But nothing would have fired up the ol' Cream magic like an SG through a couple of Bluesbreakers.

EDITED TO ADD: Why did this get moved to the main board? No Hamer content.

[MCChris]

EDITED TO ADD: Why did this get moved to the main board? No Hamer content.

Music content.

[HamerHokie]

EDITED TO ADD:  Why did this get moved to the main board?  No Hamer content.

Music content.

There are music content posts all over the Outer Circle. King Diamond thread?

I guess I am still unclear on the posting rules.

Hamer content guitar posts - main board

No Hamer content guitar posts - outer circle

Music related posts with no Hamer content - ?????

Non music related posts, except for non Hamer guitar posts - outer circle.

[silentman]

I think the OC is more of a 18+ or really off topic nonsense. Music discussions are welcome on the main board, IMO.

[m chops]

but getting back to the topic of this thread . . .

I was a little disappointed - the performance seemed to lack some fire. I preferred the 2d disc to the first.

I think I like Jack Bruce's voice a little better now. It wasn't as strong, but it is fuller. I guess that naturally comes with age, except in Ian Anderson's case.

I enjoyed watching the DVD's and glad I spent the money on them, rather than buying a ticket!

[HamerHokie]

but getting back to the topic of this thread . . .

I was a little disappointed - the performance seemed to lack some fire. I preferred the 2d disc to the first.

I think I like Jack Bruce's voice a little better now. It wasn't as strong, but it is fuller. I guess that naturally comes with age, except in Ian Anderson's case.

I enjoyed watching the DVD's and glad I spent the money on them, rather than buying a ticket!

Jack Bruce's bass sounded like it was coming through a subwoofer. Just tons of low low end, no sparkle.

[MCChris]

My opinion is that if it's related to music or what an HFC member has going on musically that it belongs on the main board. So that's how I "moderate." Ted had nothing but good things to say to me at Bruce's last month so I guess he has no problems with my approach.

If someone posts something that's related to music or what an HFC member has going on musically but chooses to put it on the O.C., I won't necessarily move it. In this case, I thought it might be nice to give this thread more exposure on the main board and thus create a longer discussion. King Diamond is cool, but I'm gonna guess that more people dig Clapton and Cream and would like to chime in about them. Had Bruiser put the King Diamond thread on the main board, I wouldn't have moved it to the O.C.

And speaking of exposure, I have no problem with "prayers/good vibes needed" posts on the main board. Again, it's an exposure thing. The more prayers/good vibes someone can get when times are tough, the better. When we start talking about home improvement, pop culture and things like that, well, I guess that's where I draw the line. There are enough people on the O.C. to offer up info about those topics.

If you want me to move this thread back, I'll be happy to. You started it, so I'll oblige you.

[Brooks]

haven't seen the dvd, but all the talk made me curious, as i've never heard more than the 4 tunes that are on classic rock radio. so, i bought their "best of" cd. now i know why they only play sunshine/badge/ulyesses/white room on the radio. they bore the piss outta me, ymmv.

[JohnnyB]

haven't seen the dvd, but all the talk made me curious, as i've never heard more than the 4 tunes that are on classic rock radio. so, i bought their "best of" cd. now i know why they only play sunshine/badge/ulyesses/white room on the radio. they bore the piss outta me, ymmv.

You're not the only one. Other than those 4 songs, to me Cream was mostly so much wankery. Ginger Baker (at least back then) must have been the most groove-less drummer to have ever lived.

I have the original Crossroads CD boxed set, and after listening through the Cream section and then Clapton's playing with Delaney and Bonnie and their group, it's such a breath of fresh air, the way Jim Gordon could keep a beat. It also marked the beginning of Clapton singing songs instead of just doing the "guitar god" thing.

[Willie G. Moseley]

In their time, Cream's efforts weren't considered "so much wankery" because they were pushing the limits of what a rock band could do, and in some respects they took music to a realm that had never been explored (and some might opine it's never been visited since). I think the musical interplay of Cream was unparalleled in the history of rock. I saw 'em live on 27 OCT 68 at Chastain Park in Atlanta, and to this day I've still never heard that much music come outta three individuals.

Ginger Baker was described by Jeff Berlin as having "perfect disco timing" and he meant it as a compliment. Baker might have been a human metronome to some, but I always thought his runs were appropriate...and don't forget that was the era of the obligatory drum solo as well.

Ca. 1967 to 1973 was, IMO, the most innovative five or six years in the history of popular music, and for the first couple of years, at least, Cream was a big part of it. If I was younger and listened to Cream (and other bands) from a purely historical standpoint, I might have a different opinion, but I own CDs everything they ever put out.

I didn't particularly care for the mix at the '05 RAH show, but I didn't expect the fire and fury of live material I'd heard in the late '60s. "N.S.U." on LIVE CREAM absolutely slays, even now.

[tafkathundernotes]

Other than those 4 songs, to me Cream was mostly so much wankery. Ginger Baker (at least back then) must have been the most groove-less drummer to have ever lived.

Me and JohnnyB agree on something!

Way too "busy" on the drums. Seems he could hardly go more than two measures without a fill, which is a major groove-buster, IMO.

Willie G. has a good point in that they were entering a new realm. Were they the first big "power trio"? I'm a bit too young to remember.

[tbabinec]

Studio Cream is a mixed bag, but “live” Cream is glorious by the standards of the day. OK, some of the songs were too long, and the official legacy fills only a couple CDs. There’s a vast bootleg list of varying sound quality and performance quality, but Cream did bring some improvisatory chops to their tunes on the best live dates. Clapton’s playing on the Beano album and some rare live Mayall material recorded just before Cream shows astounding technique for that time, coming from someone age 20 or any age. In that era, for me, Hendrix rules, and then you have Clapton, Beck, Peter Green, an emerging Page, and in the States maybe Johnny Winter and an emerging Duane Allman. Buddy Guy in those days was great, but largely unknown. Who else? Jorma Kaukonen? Jerry Garcia? Zappa? Roy Buchanan would’ve kicked some butt, but his following was limited. Erase your memory tapes and listen to the live Crossroads or Sitting on Top of the World. Awesome. Oh yeah - Carlos Santana plays some amazing guitar on the first album and Abraxas.

[HamerHokie]

Other than those 4 songs, to me Cream was mostly so much wankery. Ginger Baker (at least back then) must have been the most groove-less drummer to have ever lived.

Me and JohnnyB agree on something!

Way too "busy" on the drums. Seems he could hardly go more than two measures without a fill, which is a major groove-buster, IMO.

Willie G. has a good point in that they were entering a new realm. Were they the first big "power trio"? I'm a bit too young to remember.

They were probably the first popular power trio, not sure of the timing of the Hendrix Experience.

Ginger Baker really held a grudge against Led Zep because he felt he was far better than John Bonham but John had a higher status. This was the case as late as '94, don't know if he ever got over it. Baker was a schooled technical drummer, Bonzo was a feel guy.

[HamerHokie]

If you want me to move this thread back, I'll be happy to. You started it, so I'll oblige you.

Not necessary, I just wanted to understand the rules better. Thanks for the explanation.

[MCChris]

If you want me to move this thread back, I'll be happy to. You started it, so I'll oblige you.

Not necessary, I just wanted to understand the rules better. Thanks for the explanation.

No problem. I think what people appreciate about this place is the lack of hard and fast "rules". Sure, a boobies thread will always be in the O.C., a Monaco porn thread will always be on the main board. But there are a lot of threads that hover somewhere toward the middle. More often than not I'll honor the original poster's intent and leave the thread where it originated. Other times I'll move it.

Again, sorry if that sounds wishy-washy or arbitrary, but I think most of us like the fact that things aren't so regimented here. Possibly the only aspect of our lives that isn't.

[hardheartedbill]

I'm no big Cream fan and only saw the PBS broadcast but I dig the strat tones , I guess I just like the more open tone. One thing some of us forget is how much EC changed the tone of electric guitar, he basiclly invented the modern humbucker amp cranked tone, ask Billy G who inspired him to buy Pearly, so while I actually prefer Cream tunes played by old guys w/ lower gain, EC's legacy to the rock guitar tone cannot be denied. I applaud him for the been there done that approach to his old catalog

[jujisque]

Ca. 1967 to 1973 was, IMO, the most innovative five or six years in the history of popular music, and for the first couple of years, at least, Cream was a big part of it.

+2

[Brooks]

In their time, Cream's efforts weren't considered "so much wankery" because they were pushing the limits of what a rock band could do, and in some respects they took music to a realm that had never been explored (and some might opine it's never been visited since).

just to clarify, i wasn't doubting cream or clapton's influence. i just don't dig listening to their stuff. it's the same w/ me for a lot of influential music (dixieland/bigband/bebop/free jazz, sinatra/elvis, early beatles, gregorian chants, whatever).