Kahler question

[bruce919]

Just got a old Hamer with a Factory Kahler tremolo. Tune the guitar up ,plays fine. Just touch the tremolo & it goes out fo tune. I have played around with the spring tension screw but no luck. Could there be something broken inside? the bridge will not return to pitch. I have never adjusted one of these before so I am lost on this one.

[Jeff R]

The thing I think they call the cam, the part that actually moves that's attached to the plate by pins on the sides, will stick over time. You may try oiling athe pins and while you're at it, oil the brass rollers under the strings, they are supposed to move with the strings when you work the bar.

On a related note, weren't you looking for a black non-fine-tuning Floyd a few months ago? There's suposedly one for sale in the classifieds on the message board at www.usacharvels.com (I've never seen a black one, not even in a photo that I can recall). I don't know the seller.

[serial]

Kahlers are better than Floyds in many respects, I think. I prefer them overall after playing both for years, but they have to have been installed correctly. I have yet to find an aftermarket install that was really good. Hamer did a nice job with them in most cases.

If the guitar doesn't return to pitch correctly after using the bar, Jeff is right, the cam might be hanging up. smack the bar once and it should return it to pitch as it frees the cam up a little to allow it to fully rotate back to the proper return point. Don't keep fiddling with the adjust screws or you could knock it way out of whack. I learned a lot about setting Kahlers through trial and error, but they're very user-friendly once you figure them out. I disassembled one years ago to see where everything went and how it worked (it had been spray bombed, so it needed to have the paint removed anyway)

Also make sure that the set screws at the nut lock are tight and not stripped or giving way.

[DavidE]

Glad to know I'm not the only one who prefers Kahlers.

[serial]

Glad to know I'm not the only one who prefers Kahlers.

You CANNOT use a Floyd if you break a string. Kahlers stay in tune the whole time and you can get through the song at least.

[scepter-V-lemmy]

Glad to know I'm not the only one who prefers Kahlers.

You CANNOT use a Floyd if you break a string. Kahlers stay in tune the whole time and you can get through the song at least.

Not true if you've got it set up to bend both ways. I have 5 Kahler Pros set up to bend up and down, and breaking a string mid-song will knock them outta tune just like the Floyd Rose.

Both of them have spring tension, balanced counter to string tension. If one changes, so must the other. Trem setters and other zeroing systems won't save you if you break a string, either. The only true solution to the string-breaking mid song for holding tune is a trem-block-stop or a fixed bridge.

Now, the Floyd WILL allow the player to re-use a busted string if it breaks at the bridge saddle and there's enough left wound around the tuning post. Kahlers & other systems which use the ball-ends cannot do that.

[KH Guitar Freak]

I prefer Floyds myself thank you...

[serial]

I prefer the FEEL of Floyds, but they are so much of a PITA to restring, etc and that lack of ability to synchronize pitch on double or triple bends and double stop bends kills 'em for me.

Kahlers will suffer a LITTLE if you break a string, but nothing that has ever prevented me from getting through a song. Playing a Floyd and breaking a string, you actually hear a loud "KERRANG" most times when the whole trem shifts and everything is out of whack. I've never had anything remotely like that happen with a Kahler and I've broken a half dozen strings with Kahlered guitars in the past year at gigs.

[zorrow]

Good things about Kahler's:

1- The Kahler doesn't take too much tonewood out of my guitar -- I want to believe it doesn't harm my guitar's natural tone too much.

2- I love the locking mechanism behind the nut, because I love the Earvana and now I can have both: a locking tremolo and the Earvana system installed.

3- Its action is smoother, more linear; so I feel I have a better control of the pitch when playing with the tremolo bar.

4- The action of the strings doesn't vary in distance respect to the fretboard when moving the bar -- no undesired buzz when going up, no higher action when going down.

5- I can adjust everything from the distance between strings, to the action, to the stiffness of the bar... to whatever. Love it!

6- When bending strings it cedes just a little. So you have to compensate less, therefore you tend to get less off-key notes than with a Floyd.

7- Amazing customer support!

8- Way easier to re-string than Floyds.

Bad things about the Kahler:

1- Pricey.

2- Bulky.

3- "Stuttering" effect easier to do with the Floyd.

4- "The Bigsby Effect" -- you can improve its feel to a more Floyd-like by using stiffer springs.

5- Demands more maintenance than a Floyd -- lubrication and such.

My two cents.

[BadgerDave]

One more advantage of the Kahler - you can rest your hand on the edge of the bridge for "palm muting" effects without affecting pitch.

[murkat]

check the tension on the cam. someone might have tourqed down resistance on it, not alowing the bearings/ cam roll freely (along with sticky bearings/ cam. It should go back and forth with ease and return to place. Heavey duty springs a must. Night and day.

Also, check the locking nut slots........

[KH Guitar Freak]

One more advantage of the Kahler - you can rest your hand on the edge of the bridge for "palm muting" effects without affecting pitch.

You must be bashing your Floyd with your palm then...

Never had any issues with that ever...

[serial]

I had that problem with Floyds as well, but more than that was inadvertently hitting the fine tuner wheels. The Kahler ones move tool, of course if you bump them right. I play on the aggressive side when I'm playing live, so I break strings, bang the bridge, bend the hell out of strings, etc. The less finicky a trem, the better. There are some Kahlers that are better than others. I have two '85 6 in line Phantom A5s with Kahlers. One is a rock tuning-stability wise, the other is good, but not nearly as dependable (still better than my Floyds for me though).

I've gotten rid of most of my Floyd guitars (including a set neck Cali that was perfect otherwise, two blue flamebody Calis, some Chaps, a one-off Phantom A5 Short Horn, a bunch of SS1s, SS2s and an FBII), but still have a few that I don't play enough BECAUSE of the Floyds to be perfectly honest (85 Hamer FBIII, 89 Hamer Flattop Sunburst, 87 Hamer SS2 w/LEDs).

[KH Guitar Freak]

Care to share???

[serial]

Ah, but I have! The ones that are left are keepers for other reasons that make them Floyd-block worthy, but then again, for the right offer, anything's up for grabs I suppose.

The Sunburst was Scotti Hill's (confirmed with the Hamer records). I've got some pics of it from the '89/90 SR tour. I think that that one's beautiful and I love the single volume with nothing else. My FBIII has that setup too (one knob).

[bruce919]

I should not have sold that one.

[Hamer95USA]

Hey guys,

For those of you who own the flatmount Kahler tremolos (I use the fulcrum 2700 series tremolos myself), here is the link to the Kahler USA website:

http://www.kahlerusa.com/home.html

Click on the link and click on "Kahler Care" on top of the page. It will give you some tips on how to maintain and setup your Kahler tremolo.

Guitar George

[El_Natoro]

Glad to know I'm not the only one who prefers Kahlers.

You CANNOT use a Floyd if you break a string. Kahlers stay in tune the whole time and you can get through the song at least.

Hmmm...I've broken strings with this floyd mid-song twice at two different gigs and it never went out of tune...

But if that ever were to be an issue, I would have already replaced the string before the solo (I've actually done it on stage in less than 30 seconds both times)...

[serial]

Try that with a Hamer, smart guy!

[KH Guitar Freak]

Buy more guitars... duh...

[El_Natoro]

Try that with a Hamer, smart guy!

Actually, it’s easy to alter any Floyd equipped guitar to go into bend-down only mode. It just costs about $10 and a little elbow grease:

http://www.axcessories.com/products.asp?cat=103

Or if one wanted to go the SpeedLoader route, one could put the Floyd Speedloader on any Floyd-equipped guitar (such as a Hamer) as they will retrofit. And the SpeedLoader comes with the TremStopper.

[Jeff R]

The TremolNo unit I have on my Ibanez allows three modes - full floating, drop pitch only (great for drop 'D') or hardtail/lockdown mode. I can adjust between any of the three modes in five seconds by using little thumbwheels in the trem cavity. Highly recommended piece.

www.tremolno.com

[Armitage]

The NUMBER ONE reason a Kahler won't stay in tune after a drop is;

Idiots over tightening the locking nut.

The little plate inside gets a small grove pushed into it when over tightened, then the string just slids by no matter how tight you do it up. You can file it flat again, or just flip it over.