Organ Expert(s) Info Request

[blackfbiv]

Going to look at a Hammond of some kind in next couple days.

The boss's grandmother owned it. The cellphone picture shows a practically brand new looking unit.

The keyboards look familiar... staggered with drawbars on the left. It has a full set of foot pedals as well.

Any particular model numbers I'm looking for? (besides the standard B3... which I am not getting my hopes up about... )

Price is reasonable (free), so I figure I better go check the beastie out...

I am no expert, nor even a boardist... so ANY help is appreciated!! Be hard enough to justify putting this in the basement... especially if it's worthless.

Dion

[crunchee]

I'm no expert, but I used to do a bit of research/web browsing on them. Here's a website:

http://www.captain-foldback.com/

If all else fails:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammond_organ

My brother has a M-3 spinet, it's pretty cool! Supposedly, a Hammond spinet was used on Booker T and the MG's 'Green Onions'. Also a spinet was supposedly used on Boston's 'Smokin'. I mention spinets as they seem to be relatively easy to find, are tube/valve driven, and are a LOT easier to move than a B or C series Hammond. There used to be a really cool Hammond spinet site on the web, but I haven't been able to locate it. Photos when you can get 'em, please!

[Thundernotes]

Captain Foldback is your best resource there. C-3 and M-3 are other good possibilities, but need to be chopped down for transport/band use, IIRC.

[tomteriffic]

I don't see a picture but staggered keys and drawbars on the left usually indicate a 100 series (A-100, B-100, etc.) the exact model was usually a function of the cabinetry and not much else. If the tonewheel (the big honkin' mechanical oscillators) doesn't sound like a barrel full of rocks when you start it up it is probably a pretty good piece. Even the spinets weigh a ton, though.

I pulled a B-100 off the curb a couple of years ago. Unfortunately the tonewheel was a wreck and not worth the unsoldering, extraction, shipping and re-installation to get it fixed.

I did get some nice 1962-vintage Amperex and RCA tubes out of it, as well as a nice pair of Rola Alnicos, one voiced for bass, the other for treble.

These things wind up on the curb fairly frequently or sold for peanuts. It's a shame because they're fine instruments. But there just isn't much market for them.

[blackfbiv]

Cool

thanks guys...

we'll see what we have soon enuff

[HSB0531]

Hell, I'd grab any old Hammond.

A B-3, or C-3 would be great.

But any of the above mentioned would be just fine.

[Steve Haynie]

Find teenagers who will work for pizza so you do not have to pick that sucker up yourself. If there is a Leslie cabinet you might as well hire a forklift operator.

[LostArt]

unfortunately there are many hammonds out there. only a few are worth owning

free is good maybe you will get a leslie at least or some good tubes.

if you gut it take out the speaekers and amp you can always flip them

[Brewmaster]

Some of them have amps that can be converted fairly easily into guitar amps. I had one that was converted into an 18 watt that I think was pulled from an L-100. Two El-84's (Hammond with Amperex factory codes that were ANOS) and a couple of bugle boy 12ax7's. I still have those tubes. The Trannies were in good shape and the O.T. sounded real good. It was a different sounding 18, but a good sounding one.

If the organ is trashed it may be worth while to pull the amp and have some fun with it.

And BTW, in my experience the new Hammond trannies sound nothing like the old ones. The old ones are worth salvaging.

[JohnnyB]

Count me among those who have picked up an M-3 from a curb. It's been sitting in my garage for the past 7 years. I was thinking of donating it to the local high school for a senior project (restoration), but I 'm not sure that would be good. I may have to just gut it for the speaker & (maybe) the amp, or at least pull the tubes and speaker. Alpep wrote me at the time that because the speaker was made to handle such a wide range of volumes and frequencies, it's a really good instrument speaker.

The big difference between the B-3/C-3 pro series and the spinet-sized M-3 is that the B3/C3 have full-sized 61-note keyboards and the M-3 has smaller ones, maybe 44 IIRC. But like its big brothers, the M-3 has drawbars, tonewheels, and tube electronics. So it has "the sound" but less playing range.

The church I grew up in had a Hammond C-3. My mom was the organist but she was no Lee Michaels. Now that would have been fun!

[Jimbilly]

I've got an organ speaker in my favorite little 18w combo amp. The speaker is a 12" Cleveland, from about '62, with an alnico magnet, it sounds GREAT for guitar. It came out of a Balwin Orgasonic. That Baldwin Orgasonic had 28 12ax7's, 32 12au7's, a 5u4, and a pair of GE 6L6GCs. Every tube tested great, all the little ones are Sylvanias.

Yeah, save the tubes, speakers and amp chassis out of the organs. Unfortunately most organs are not worth (cost effective) saving or restoring. I think many of them were super expensive back in the day, and most are just junk now. Just for fun, look in the free section of craigslist for organs.

The best organ tech is just a couple of miles from me, http://www.pugetsoundorgan.com/ I think he's known worldwide.

[blackfbiv]

Gonna be a couple days b-4 i see it... rig move Tues til Thursday this week...

maybe on the weekend...

Did I mention he's willing to deliver?

He wants it gone... Mrs Blackfbiv is on board as long as it's worth keeping / selling or whatever-ing...

[tomteriffic]

Keep in mind that, in all likelihood, the tonewheel will need oil. It's a specific type, stuff like 3 in 1 etc. will only gum up the works. The good news is that it's pretty regularly available.

Here's one source.

[blackfbiv]

Keep in mind that, in all likelihood, the tonewheel will need oil. It's a specific type, stuff like 3 in 1 etc. will only gum up the works. The good news is that it's pretty regularly available.

Here's one source.

Man... how specific!!!

I assume the machine working fine.. the daughter has been practicing with it.... but now needs a weighted keyboard to maximize her piano lesson content...

But good to have that oil on hand, the organ has probably really never seen any servicing. Ummm, well... you know.

[crunchee]

Keep in mind that, in all likelihood, the tonewheel will need oil. It's a specific type, stuff like 3 in 1 etc. will only gum up the works. The good news is that it's pretty regularly available.

Here's one source.

+1. My brother uses the Hammond-Suzuki oil in the plastic bottle, the organs are easy to oil...there's little ports above the tonewheel, on top of the curved fiberboard cover, that you can drop the oil through. He says a little goes a long way, otherwise the oil can drip all the way through the tonewheel chassis.

[HamerHokie]

The thing about old Hammonds is, not all models had percussion. The C3 did, the CV didn't. Some were meant to be church organs.

One cheap model with percussion intended for the home was the E-100 series. The number varied by the type of wood. My church has a defunct E-100, so I wasn't able to test it out. But I found a Youtube vid featuring one once and it sounded very B-3-y.

[blackfbiv]

Well no luck yet, maybe Grandma but the kibosh on the whole deal.... hahahahahaha

Oh well...

[HamerHokie]

Well no luck yet, maybe Grandma but the kibosh on the whole deal.... hahahahahaha

Oh well...

Were you ever able to obtain at least the model number?

[blackfbiv]

Well no luck yet, maybe Grandma but the kibosh on the whole deal.... hahahahahaha

Oh well...

Were you ever able to obtain at least the model number?

Nope... maybe he thinks he's got a million dollar machine now that I asked. Ha!

[blackfbiv]

Well, well... the beastie showed up finally...

Model L-133

Been doin a little looking... if it works I may have to take it home... just for the curiosity factor...

Any additional thoughts?

[JGale]

[obscure reference]

Ask Leroy?

[/obscure reference]

[Jimbilly]

If it's got recognizable tubes in it, it's worth bringing home. I don't know that model, but very few are worth putting any money into, but maybe it works and it sounds good as-is?

If you want to be shocked, look up the original prices of older organs, many were multiple thousands of dollars back in the 60s and 70s, the salesmen must've been amazing. "Don't buy that Les Paul, it's a fad, buy this organ, it will be treasured for generations".

[JohnnyB]

Well, well... the beastie showed up finally... Model L-133

That would be this.

One-octave pedalboard, two 44-key manuals, mostly organ stops, small set of drawbars, and it looks like some percussion effects.

Looking at the business end, we see that it has two large alnico-mag speakers, a tube amp, and a couple of tube preamps or something. Even in high end audio, I've come across the Hammond amps pulled, refurbed, and matched up for stereo pairs. The guts on this look simpler (and more approachable) than the incredible nest of wires for the old tonewheel versions.

According to the Wikipedia article about Hammond, the B-3 was introduced in 1955 at $2750 in walnut. Running that figure through the inflation calculator puts it at over $22K in today's money.

[tomteriffic]

Excepting the color-reversed keys, that looks a whole bunch like the B100 I pulled off the curb. The big chassis in the bottom is the power amp, one of the little ones on the top is the reverb amp and the other is a general preamp. I notice that this one has a set of Leslie controls but no Leslie inside or out. If memory serves, the silver box in the top left of the bottom cavity, near the swell pedal, provided the output for the Leslie. That was not an option on the B100.

Oh, and this IS a tonewheel model. That thing running across the middle of the back is the tonewheel. All of those spots on there are the ends of the axles that the oscillators rotate on. On the other side you'd find a blue million solder connections going from each key and pedal to this thing. It's the big cause for the weight. Even a smallish organ like this has about 60 lbs in the tone wheel alone.

I forget where the reverb tank was stashed on mine, but I made damn sure I kept it.

Mine was 1962 vintage and I pulled a number of RCA 12AX7's and a few 12AT's and AU's. The real catch was a pair of original Amperex EL84's that still test at about 90%.

As a recovering keyboardist and former church organist (I learned on a B3 and C3), I'd have kept it except that the tone wheel was shot. Some shot multi-section caps would have been worth replacing if the tone wheel was OK.

Wish I had known how easy it was to mod the amps for hi-fi or musical instrument use. I'd have kept them.

Oh, the speakers in mine look a lot like the ones in there. They're Rolas with 1962 date codes. One appears to have provisions for extended cone excursion, possibly indicating a bass optimization and the other has a different dust cap and possibly a smaller voice coil which may be indicative of a treble optimization.

I'd love to get a speaker cabinet built that looked like hi-fi stuff or furniture from the '60's. Put those speakers in there, screw on some nice round wood legs with brass caps and have a 2 x 12 dining room side board.