Fender Princeton or Hughes & Kettner Tubemeister?

[Hbom]

I have a gift card from Music123 that I need to use up soon.

One spending option is a new amp. My current top two are;

65 Princeton Reverb

http://www.music123.com/amplifiers-effects/fender-65-princeton-reverb-15w-1x10-tube-guitar-combo-amp

Hughes & Kettner Tubemeister 18

http://www.music123.com/amplifiers-effects/hughes-kettner-tubemeister-tm18-18w-tube-guitar-combo-amp

Any thoughts would be helpful. But please stick to M123 & price range.

Thanks

[bubs_42]

The first time I played a HK 18 I was pretty impress. Everytime after that I played it, not so much. Closed back was woofy, big mid's and a fat sound but with an artist or Newport its is going to be over kill, I would fear.

[Never2Late]

Are you thinking about resale value? I'd pick the Fender, after researching where it was made. If the Fender were a USA-made amp, I'd pick that one over the Hughes. If both amps are cheap imports, then I'd listen to the Youtube sound clips and go with the one that sounds best to you, as resale value would be nil.

[GusS]

I'd also pick the Fender, it's a timeless amp.

Here's another option:

http://www.music123.com/amplifiers-effects/ampeg-gvt15-112-15w-1x12-tube-guitar-combo-amp

Go and try'em out

[GusS]

I just zoomed in on the backs of the three amps

"DESIGNED AND ENGINEERED IN GERMANY" (i.e. made in a poor country)

"A PRODUCT OF FMIC, CORONA, CA, U.S.A." (super ambiguous. Doesn't mean anything. I have to conclude that it's made abroad simply because if it were made in the USA, it would boast about it)

"MADE ON PLANET EARTH" (fuckin rich)

What is this shit? Aren't companies obliged to put the country of manufacture on the product label? Why do Squiers then proudly display Made on Indonesia?

[JohnnyB]

It would help to know what styles you play and if you play out, the size of the venue.

If you are a home/studio/small club player of jazz, blues, and/or classic rock, the Princeton would be the way to go, especially an exact copy of an early version complete with 5AR4 rectifier tube. These amps are incredibly expressive, and NOS tubes should make it sound even more classic and expressive.

If you do metal or more modern stuff, or need more volume, adjust your shopping accordingly. Then you might want an Egnator or VHT.

If you didn't need much volume I'd be mighty tempted by that Bad Cat Cougar 5W with a Celestion Vintage 30. This could be a fun amp--5w single-ended class A driving a 12"--full frequency range and easy to put into overdrive w/o blasting the house.

But again, that depends on what you're looking for in an amp.

[carfish7]

From my limited experience with the H&K, it was prett dull and lifeless. Reminded me a lot of a "modeled" tone if that makes any sense. Looks cool as hell, but that was about all it did for me. YMMV of course.

[tomteriffic]

Lifelong Princeton owner here. You won't regret it.

Joe Walsh got all of his amazing tones in the studio (at least early on) with a Princeton on a chair. The trick is to get it off the floor.

[bubs_42]

Ampeg = Vietnam.

[bubs_42]

My vote.

http://www.music123.com/amplifiers-effects/fender-hot-rod-series-blues-junior-nos-15w-1x12-tube-guitar-combo-amp

This will KILL with both of your guitars.

http://www.music123.com/amplifiers-effects/egnater-tweaker-112-15w-1x12-tube-guitar-combo-amp

[hamerhead]

Always been a Fender amp guy (not a Fender-who-bought-and-killed-Hamer guy, though. Those guys suck).

[Never2Late]

Ah, the old "Bait-n-Switch" tactic. Hey, guess what....APPLE is designed and engineered in CA, USA....says so on the back of my iPod.

But manufactured in China.

Same thing with the Fender, I'll wager - check the fine-print. I saw a Blues Jr. the other day...one of the 'newer' models, had the same introductory labels on the plate. Checked the small type, and found "Made in Mexico" on the back.

I'll bet $100 that the H&K is the same deal - the Germans designed the circuit and made the blueprints, but the actual construction was farmed-out to one of our 'friends' in Southeast Asia who sourced the parts, wired it up, and boxed it.

I just zoomed in on the backs of the three amps

"DESIGNED AND ENGINEERED IN GERMANY" (i.e. made in a poor country)

"A PRODUCT OF FMIC, CORONA, CA, U.S.A." (super ambiguous. Doesn't mean anything. I have to conclude that it's made abroad simply because if it were made in the USA, it would boast about it)

"MADE ON PLANET EARTH" (fuckin rich)

What is this shit? Aren't companies obliged to put the country of manufacture on the product label? Why do Squiers then proudly display Made on Indonesia?

[Armitage]

I was thinking of looking into a Hughes & Kettner Tubemeister. There is a Tommy Thayer endorsement video that really sounds cool.

One of the guys on the Dean forum got one... it sounds like crap in his video.

[Lockbody]

Ah, the old "Bait-n-Switch" tactic. Hey, guess what....APPLE is designed and engineered in CA, USA....says so on the back of my iPod.

But manufactured in China.

Same thing with the Fender, I'll wager - check the fine-print. I saw a Blues Jr. the other day...one of the 'newer' models, had the same introductory labels on the plate. Checked the small type, and found "Made in Mexico" on the back.

I'll bet $100 that the H&K is the same deal - the Germans designed the circuit and made the blueprints, but the actual construction was farmed-out to one of our 'friends' in Southeast Asia who sourced the parts, wired it up, and boxed it.

I just zoomed in on the backs of the three amps

"DESIGNED AND ENGINEERED IN GERMANY" (i.e. made in a poor country)

"A PRODUCT OF FMIC, CORONA, CA, U.S.A." (super ambiguous. Doesn't mean anything. I have to conclude that it's made abroad simply because if it were made in the USA, it would boast about it)

"MADE ON PLANET EARTH" (fuckin rich)

What is this shit? Aren't companies obliged to put the country of manufacture on the product label? Why do Squiers then proudly display Made on Indonesia?

The reissues amps are made in the USA. That said, they don't have enough parts sourced from the US to get a "Made in USA" label.

My Victory motorcycle was like that, too. Made in Iowa, by Polaris, a company based in Minnesota, but they used over a certain percentage of import parts, Showa forks and shocks, Brembro brakes, etc... so they couldn't claim "Made in the USA".

I'd get the Princeton. Down the road, swap the baffle for one with a 12" speaker and have a whole new amp.

[Hbom]

Thank you everybody for your responses.

The results are in and obviously in favor of the Princeton.

I’m bummed that the Hughes & Kettner wasn’t better thought of. On paper it sounds like it would fit the bill from bedroom to small clubs pretty well. I was hoping that maybe it could be the miracle to that great sound that I don’t have.

That Bad Cat sure is enticing. I had never looked at those before. Very nice. Thanks for the heads up.

I’m sure the Egnator or Ampeg amps would be fine but I don’t think that’s what I’m after either.

I might buy a Blues Jr. if I could get an older one.

I pretty much put the Princeton RI up as it is a ‘known good’ or known bad, depending on your view. But they are well known amps with a strong following and I was interested in how the current version was stacking up.

Beat the hell out of the H&K! Which I found very disappointing.

But I had a lot of trouble finding specifics as to where it is made.

Lockbody might have the best explanation I’ve seen in print.

“The reissues amps are made in the USA. That said, they don't have enough parts sourced from the US to get a Made in USA" label.”

I’m not sure if that’s the case or not. I do believe that “Made On Earth” is a FMIC catch phrase that will get you sent to the un-employment line if anyone hears you use it around the office. They have become masters at implying that their products are all American when most of them are rarely or barely American.

And I’m not even sure that Made In America makes a difference. But telling me it’s MIA should mean MIA not mostly made in America. After all, I started looking at Hamer guitars after I bought 2 Fender "American " guitars.

I think the best thing that I found out about the PRRI while trying to find out who makes it is that, like used guitars, the value of 60’s & 70’s amps is softening up.

I had planned to use my gift card for parts to finish out a tele build I’ve had setting for a while, but last week I had that little moment where I thought. “If I put some cash with the card I could get a better amp.”

Almost makes it sound like a better amp would make me a better guitar player doesn’t it?

But then I remembered a recent post where I said;

“ I think it has come down to the point where I need to sit down and learn to play, and quit pretending that if I buy a better guitar I'll sound better. Doesn't work. I've got great guitars and still sound like crap.”

“PRACTICE! PRACTICE! PRACTICE!”

So I’m thinking that it’s going to be the same with an amp. Probably just make me sound like a bad guitar player playing louder.

So I guess I’ll go back to “PRACTICE! PRACTICE! PRACTICE!”

Thank you all again for your ideas. But I think I'll hold off for a while.

D

[GusS]

Hbom -

If you've settled on the Princeton, I do have to ask why on earth would you buy a new one instead of a used 1970's silverface that's cheaper, point-to-point, super easy to service, made with better components in the united states of America and will last forever?

Lockbody -

If they are made in the USA with imported parts, why not write "Assembled in the USA" or "Assembled in the USA with American and imported parts" if the former is deemed misleading? I think that I would find that more appealing than no label (other than "product of") which makes me assume it's built elsewhere.

But does Loud Technologies get away with printing "Made on Planet Earth" though? That's the same as having no label at all.

Is it a requirement to specify the country of manufacture of a product?

On the iPad it's clearly written "Designed in California by Apple. Assembled in China". No bait and switch.

[Hbom]

Gus- I have not settled for a Princeton. For all the reasons you mentioned, + a few of my own.

I had almost decided on an H&K Tubemeister but found out it isn't very well liked. So I decided to hold off.

I used the Princeton as a comparison to the H&K because they are similer in size & price, and have been around for ever in one form or another.

I'm sorry for the confusion.

[Lockbody]

Lockbody -

If they are made in the USA with imported parts, why not write "Assembled in the USA" or "Assembled in the USA with American and imported parts" if the former is deemed misleading? I think that I would find that more appealing than no label (other than "product of") which makes me assume it's built elsewhere.

But does Loud Technologies get away with printing "Made on Planet Earth" though? That's the same as having no label at all.

Is it a requirement to specify the country of manufacture of a product?

On the iPad it's clearly written "Designed in California by Apple. Assembled in China". No bait and switch.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_USA

The last post of this link explains it: http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html?db=&topic_number=770619