Guitar synths, to dive in or avoid ?

[peedenmark7]

I'm looking for some advice on Guitar synths, mainly the Roland GR55 but am open to others if they apply.

I'll be quick to add that I have not used a guitar synth,  since the mid 80s , the Roland GR700 which to me really sucked due to the poor tracking.

With a studio project looming in the coming months, I am considering delving into the world of guitar synths as an added sound option, NOT as a mainstay.

I do not care about horns, amp, cabinet  and guitar modeling, I am after late 70s early 80s sounds > Ultravox , Duran Duran-ish synth voicing of some kind that I can either blend in for soloing, or use as  background.

If the Boss type effects that the GR55 or another incorporates , work nicely , I'd like to ditch my noisy array of vintage Boss pedals and simply kick patches. I know I am complicating something that has served me well.

I'm using vintage Marshall and Fender amps without loops ,  a Newer Mesa with a loop, will this be an issue running it into the face of the older amps ?

Lastly, If not the GR55 , is there a more user friendly out of the box Synth/ effects  ONLY unit out there that might better fit the bill , BOSS SY-300 ?

 

Please jump in .

Thanks!

[killerteddybear]

If you have ANY keyboard skills at all, there are a ton of used synths for less money than the GR55.
I'd suggest you put the money into a keyboard synth and let your guitar be a guitar.

My guitar player picked up a GR55 this year. It's now for sale.
Nice unit but he really doesn't have a use for it. He's a live player only, no studio work, and the GR55 doesn't fit into the stuff/styles we play.

As far as a box to replace your aging Boss pedals, maybe the AVID Eleven Rack would be for you. $300 used in most locales.

In all cases, buy used!

[veatch]

I used a guitar synth in the studio with reasonable results, but I always had to go back after the fact and clean up the artifacts in the resulting midi file. 

I haven't used any of my guitar synth gear in about a decade. In fact, have a GM70 for sale right now...  ktb is exactly right. If I were to do it again, I'd get a keyboard. 

That said... The old Roland stuff is actually pretty fun. The GR300, and such. Very one dimensional, but tracked fairly well and was musical. The 700 was painful. I went with the GM70 and strung a guitar with all b strings. That tracked very well. So, if you really just don't want a keyboard, that might be an option. 

[Armitage]

Have you ever tried a Electro Harmonix Micro POG or Micro Synth? Kind of cool and might do what you need.

[peedenmark7]

This is really my thoughts on it as well, still I am looking to add something to color, not as a mainstay, no keys for me.

I found a very nice used GR55 with 2 -pickups,  2- 13pin 30' cables,  internal and external buffers for $600 .

I sort of like the idea of the BOSS SY300, but everything I read says the patches are dirty/distorted, All I am really looking at a synth for is for novelty soloing and maybe some strings in the background here or there. I would never fully utilize either,  that's for sure.

 

The last rack mount unit I had for effects was the Digitech 2120 and though I saw potential, I got real tired of trying to adjust patch volumes to match dry signal.

Simply too much f-ing around.

Without a loop at the time ,and direct  into the face of a roaring Marshall 2104, I finally gave up and sent it on its way.

 

[scottcald]

I think in the not too distant future, Roland will be able to do synth correctly with a standard guitar input.  That's when it'll be awesome.  Line6 and Boss multi-effect units both have patches that change the sounds.  GT-100 has a patch that sounds like Hammond like.  

[killerteddybear]

4 hours ago, peedenmark7 said:

I found a very nice used GR55 with 2 -pickups,  2- 13pin 30' cables,  internal and external buffers for $600 .

That's a good deal on the GR55, especially with 2 pickups and cables.

The resale on these is hovering between $500 and $650, so if you jump in you will recover most of your investment.

[peedenmark7]

Just got home with it, now I have to find a guitar this stupid pickup will fit .

I figured I got a pretty decent deal, if I hate it, I am pretty sure I'd recoup.

[HAMERMAN]

I have a GR-55 and am quite happy with it. For a good idea of what it can do go to the vguitarforum  and poke around the GR-55 section. It can do quite a few synth sounds although it does not have an arpeggiator so that will rule out Duran Duran type stuff that relied heavily on an arpeggiator (Hungry Like The Wolf). If you are using it for synth sounds only then you will get the best results running into a full range system.

Besides me I know Darc and Paults have also been down the guitar synth route so if you have any questions I am sure somebody can help. 

 

[peedenmark7]

The lack of an arpeggiator is a little bit of a bummer , but I think there are ways around that , time to delve in and see what the machine can do , better still what patience I have for it as I have grown older 

 

I appreciate the replies !

[jettster]

You could try this for free, no midi required. I messed around with it a few years back on the older version and it was a little difficult to configure but pretty cool once I got it working. You can also use it to trigger any DAW instrument.

 

http://www.jamorigin.com/products/midi-guitar/

[gorch]

9 hours ago, jettster said:

You could try this for free, no midi required. I messed around with it a few years back on the older version and it was a little difficult to configure but pretty cool once I got it working. You can also use it to trigger any DAW instrument.

 

http://www.jamorigin.com/products/midi-guitar/

Bought this once to support the programmer. It had improved a lot over time. Once you have the guitar midi, the door is open to almost no limits.

[Studio Custom]

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8377152

We recorded that in 1994.  All keyboard parts are via a Rolanf synth driving a Korg 01/Wr

[gorch]

Just met with HFC member 901gtr yesterday. 901gtr is successfully using a midi pickup set on one guitar for years. I think it was a Roland mentioned.

[jaberwock]

With the GR55, it's possible to get pretty good tracking in the studio, a clean playing style is essential, very careful positioning of the hex pickup, and using all unwound strings help a lot ( the pitch can be dropped an octave by the GR ); the Fishman TriplePlay triggers soft synths wirelessly, and tracks significantly better than the Roland, having used both I'd say the GR55 is better for stage use, although the 13 pin cables are a little delicate, but for studio use the Fishman is the clear winner.

 

  Hope this helps Jaberwock

[geoff_hartwell]

FWIW, I have used a Roland GR-20 very happily for years with my 80s Band, The Fred Savages.

(our pal Ben Shin can probably weigh in on his success with the same unit)

I only use it for 3 or 4 pad sounds, {strings sound, aah sound, synth pad, oscillating synth pad (super easy to store a user preset with appropriate sound and 'hold type' which is SO useful and simple)} or specific instrument settings (for example the synth lead sound for the solo on "Sweet Dreams" by Eurythmics). It's super easy to use and has been bulletproof with no backup.

Mostly using a 3-hole Duotone (pic attached) modified by our pal BCR Greg with a GK Kit installed (Dare I say, Triotone?!?), though I use another DT with a surface-mount GK-3 on occasion.

I have not loved using the "Hybrid" guitar/synth products, (Roland VG-stuff, and the GRs after the 20) bc its an approximation of all parts (not great synth stuff, not great guitar stuff). The gr-20 is really a dead simple synth engine with great sounds and great reliability and functionality. I choose to run 3 discrete channels and it has always worked amazingly well.

Setup is 3 channels of acoustic/electric/synth out of a 3 cable discrete bundle (two planet waves right angle gtr cables, and a Roland 13 pin cable Gaff-taped together. No hassle at all, and I can still get about 40 inches of vertical leap, Ha! It's really easy to manage): acoustic side into a DI (one channel on the mixer), electric side into a pedal board with a SansAmp gt-2 at the end (2nd channel) and a 13-pin into Gr-20 straight into board (3rd channel). With no amp, just a guitar (or two if I'm feeling luxurious), electric pedals and DI in a laptop backpack, and the GR -20 in a tiny generic laptop case from Staples. All of that is a five minute setup, max, from walking in the door with guitar and two laptop cases. 

I love the idea of the TriplePlay, especially for studio and teaching, but would not trust a laptop running software for live sounds.

[peedenmark7]

Well after a month of messing and doing some  really interesting recording with the GR55 ,I am considering furthering this little venture in an attempt to eliminate my old boss stomp boxes.

I had been thinking the better part of this week while recording how it would be nice to simply A/B with another GR55 but kind of feel that to be over kill , but kept thinking if I could utilize some kind of splitter cable to work between  the 55 and another effects processor.

Come to find out Roland Makes the US20 which is an A/B stomp box to do just that, but I am not wanting another device with amp modeling as I find it is nonsense/redundant for the most part, I  do however want full chorus, delay etc., effects.  Coming out of the 2nd out on the US20,  could I hook up to a BOSS GT5  and A/B or is it not compatible with the GK pickup ?

 

Merry Christmas !

[peedenmark7]

Is there any advantage of running [2]  GR55's in tandem ? or kicking between or utilizing both via a US20 switch ?

[HAMERMAN]

If you make enough presets you may be able to do everything with one GR-55. Have you tried using the "GR-55 Floorboard" editor? The author "Gumtown" is a member over at the vguitar forum. The editor makes it much easier to setup patches and really see what you have to work with inside the GR-55.

GR-55 Floorboard

OTOH If you really like using pedals then you should be able to just run the "GUITAR OUT" of the GR-55 into the pedals and then into an amp.

[peedenmark7]

The problem with the patches is changing them on the fly, there is always that short delay  with no sound, my thoughts in running 2 units was that I could have 2 55's set up for any given song so instead of having to take my hands off the guitar while playing to potentially change a bank [ I know 3 patches with the bank] I could simply A/B between the 2 units basically tapping the patches ahead of time during any given song and  a/b them 

 

Where I am at right now,  is how the heck will I reproduce some of the things Ive been recording in a live setting without an additional musician ?

 

I'm not nuts about the effects section or how I have to get to them in the 55 so for now the plan has been to use the 55  with BOSS pedals in the chain to the main guitar amp and run the 55 into the keyboard amp or straight in the PA what have you. I know I need to fully utilize the system and create /move patches to the user section . I found a like new boxed 55 for about $400 which I thought a winner for the money and I cant really lose if 2 of them don't work for me./

 

Personally,  I love pedals and have been in the process of building a new board to replace the one I made when I was 22.

All Boss:   PSM5 to power,  DD2, DM2 , DC3 , RV2 , BF2

I have and have wanted to make it bigger for 20 plus years now, but never had the time, I want to add my, CE2 , PH1R, NF1,and another DD2

I had originally thought about using the Mondo power supply from Voodoo to power them,

 but after a bunch of back and forth with those guys, I think I am gonna simply stay with the [2 ] PSM5's

 I'll stack them in 2 rows,   Digital row and analog row and A/B between them. Much of what I do has delay and bending over all night long to tweak this or that gets old.

I know I could simplify things with a rack and floor controller, but that's a whole new learning process for this caveman.

 

[gorch]

On 2.10.2016 at 0:45 AM, jettster said:

You could try this for free, no midi required. I messed around with it a few years back on the older version and it was a little difficult to configure but pretty cool once I got it working. You can also use it to trigger any DAW instrument.

 

http://www.jamorigin.com/products/midi-guitar/

Since having updated the iRig firmware the other day, I came to check out the installation of Jamorigin on my notebook. Starting the standalone, it offered an update. Now being no beta any more, I went to visit the site. It made tremendous steps forward since I had used it. Which had been on the old notebook, that is more than a year ago.

The advert video is just cool. I'll have to invest more time on this. There are plenty of other videos available on youtube. Just scroll down the homepage to the video section.