Best Cab to use with Axe-Fx II?

[diablo175]

How does one get the most out of a pre-amp and modelling unit like the Axe Fx 2 without having the characteristics of the cab influence the model/sample? 

[murkat]

your going down a slippery slope. Been there done that.

If you wish to retain any of "your" tone,

Axe FX > tube power amp> your 4x12 cabs. midi foot controller of your choice.

Personally, if your into hours and hours and then even more fucking hours into patching, editing, deliberating, analizing, hair pulling agony,

go for it.

Ben there done that.

And I am just waiting for those who will chime in and say the positives....

Don't get me wrong, it is a great unit.

A unit that will suck your sanity and wallet away.

Marshall, effects loop, 4x12 cabs, plug in and dialed in, go!

I have to go now, here they come.....

 

[scottcald]

To answer your question directly without getting into the modeling vs. real amp debate, I'd say go straight into a PA or FRFR speaker designed for this.   

 

[diablo175]

So I'm clear, I'm not looking to make that leap to modelling. I've spent many years trying to get to an acceptable, satisfying live sound and I feel as though I have it with my current rig. I was actually just curious given that Axe Fx 2 along with their Ax-8 are on sale. It got me wondering.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

FRFR

[scottcald]

9 hours ago, diablo175 said:

So I'm clear, I'm not looking to make that leap to modelling. I've spent many years trying to get to an acceptable, satisfying live sound and I feel as though I have it with my current rig. I was actually just curious given that Axe Fx 2 along with their Ax-8 are on sale. It got me wondering.

Gotcha. I guess I feel if you're going that route, go that route.  If you're doing the real amp thing, then do that.  Just don't try to make either one the other.   One thing I notice (and of course, this is all opinion) is that I think people don't roll off the high end in their patches enough for a live situation.  That might be fine for a recording, but when you're live and that tone gets cranked up, it can be harsh.  I recently got a Helix.  It has a high cut on the cabinet and in the different EQ blocks.  To me, finding that spot to roll down to is key.  I generally come down to between 6k-8K on the cab block depending on the amp I'm emulating and the ultimate tone the patch is going for. 

 

[mathman]

I don't have the axe fx so my answer may not fit how it works.   I do use my digital amps a lot and that was part of the reason I bought the Bass amp I bought.  It has a tweeter in the cabinet and actually sounds good as an audio player.  So when I play the digital amps through the amp it sounds they way it should.  I can tweak the eq as needed or plug in the to the MP3 input.

[murkat]

Yup, I am back, and less intoxicated, and more focused.

Here's my experience and background.

In the late 80's, thru early 2000's I built a stereo rack guitar system. A Top shelf system that bradshaw  and Steve Stevens would give a thumbs up on.

Later in life came the Axe Fx. I purchased and a controller.

Cloned my tones, my vintage Marshalls, my pedals into the Axe Fx. (except my A/DA Flanger).

Sold all the rack gear, pedal board, vintage Marshalls, etc. Kept my Marshall cabs.

Tried the FX thru a PA type system, it was.... Okay, but "something" was missing in the mix. Percussion. The "notes". The guitar.

Purchased a mesa tubed power amp, into the marshall cabs. Most that was lost that was missing has 90% returned.

Basically I micro sized my Rack system with a tolerable sound and "feel" at a hefty  cost.

Axe FX II released.

I was told by Axe people that I would be able to transfer all programs from Axe 1 to Axe 2 with no problems

and have the added benefit of separate engines of FX and amp sims.

I bit. Sold my FX1 to fund FX2. transferred files, settings, etc.

Nope.

All my presets gone, all my models of my now sold Marshalls gone.

I am stuck re programming a new system (74 hours into Axe Fx I) and who knows how long that is going to be and how close I was going to get.

I was crushed. Broken. SALTY.

Presently, I am back to a couple of Marshall type heads, and cabs. Pedals that rival the past Rack processing gear I use to have.

I have recaptured my own tone print for the most part. Lesson learned (at a very High cost).

The Axe Products are wonderful tools. Troubadours, gigging Guitarists around the world rely on them 100%.

You can get close to what your use to, a marshall 1/2 stack, with a bunch of bells and whistles.

But you will end up with only a few programed tones with some fx, something that you  are already using.

If your in a band that goes from Black sabbath to Queen to Dire Straights to The police to Jefferson Airplane night after night, Axe FX make sense. any hit sound a foot stomp.

Then you might as well have a solid state monitor, and a feed direct to the board, that is what the foremention usually do.

If your application is "you" with some added features, I suggest a tube power amp and cab for that stage sound and feed to mixer.

But, do not get rid of your Head and cab and stuff. You will eventually go back.

Dweezil's rig. Even if your not into D, the rundown of is pretty much spot on into the rabbit hole.

 

 

[Jakeboy]

It was more fun when you were intoxicated, Murkat!

[murkat]

47 minutes ago, Jakeboy said:

It was more fun when you were intoxicated, Murkat!

Me bad.

But, I did not want to edit, welch on my own passion in regards of.

The bubs rabbit hole is real

and

deep

[DBraz]

I have owned real Marshalls, Mesa's, VHT's/Fryette's, Bogner's and more.  I initially had an AXE FX Ultra and was disappointed .  The AXE FX 2, with the latest firmware, is a different league and very very close to the real thing.

My opinion is that for playing live a REAL cab sounds miles better than any FRFR alternative.  The FRFR cabs produce a recorded tone equivalent to what you'd get with a well mic'd REAL cab going into a PA.  If you want an authentic 4x12 sound - as in what you actually hear with your own ears- nothing beats the real thing.

With my AXE FX 2 I use a Fryette Power Station (it's designed to be as close to neutral as possible but with REAL valve dynamics) into a 4x12.  If I need additional PA volume I use the cab simulation out of the AXE FX out of a different output directly into a P.A. in addition to my real 4x12.  No mic's.  Easy.  Sounds AMAZING.

Where the AXE FX comes into its own is in recording where you can plug in and USB out and have virtually perfect sound.  Any sound of your choice.  In seconds.

Yes you can delve into an endless abyss of possibilities- anything from mic position on a simulated cab of your choice, with speakers of your choice etc but I rarely need to delve into that for long.  I do but not often.

[Studio Custom]

I was an early adopter of the Axe Fx, back in the Ultra days.

The Atomic CLR is the best option that has come along yet. 

I am far from a Tom King fan, his business practices leave a LOT to be desired, but Jay Mitchell designed a nice sounding, compact FRFR and it works. 

One thing to keep in mind when going FRFR, it's sonic spectrum is vastly greater than that of a guitar cabinet, so you need to use your high and low cuts to shave down to the realistic guitar range, or it will sound fake. 

[sonic1974]

On 1/14/2018 at 3:52 PM, DBraz said:

I have owned real Marshalls, Mesa's, VHT's/Fryette's, Bogner's and more.  I initially had an AXE FX Ultra and was disappointed .  The AXE FX 2, with the latest firmware, is a different league and very very close to the real thing.

My opinion is that for playing live a REAL cab sounds miles better than any FRFR alternative.  The FRFR cabs produce a recorded tone equivalent to what you'd get with a well mic'd REAL cab going into a PA.  If you want an authentic 4x12 sound - as in what you actually hear with your own ears- nothing beats the real thing.

With my AXE FX 2 I use a Fryette Power Station (it's designed to be as close to neutral as possible but with REAL valve dynamics) into a 4x12.  If I need additional PA volume I use the cab simulation out of the AXE FX out of a different output directly into a P.A. in addition to my real 4x12.  No mic's.  Easy.  Sounds AMAZING.

Where the AXE FX comes into its own is in recording where you can plug in and USB out and have virtually perfect sound.  Any sound of your choice.  In seconds.

Yes you can delve into an endless abyss of possibilities- anything from mic position on a simulated cab of your choice, with speakers of your choice etc but I rarely need to delve into that for long.  I do but not often.

That's where I personally could take advantage of the features of the AXE FX (or other modellers). For recording. 

But then you get into the software vs. hardware argument. Lot's of good virtual stuff amps/effects out there. Which is a whole other argument. ha! 

[Jakeboy]

I would consider a Tech 21 Power Engine. Clean power designed for amp modelers...speaker is a Celestion 70/80 which is perfect for that application. They may SUCK in other amps, but as a speaker to honestly replicate what a modeler is dishing out, they rule.

[jettster]

Personal preference, but I use a Matrix 2x12 running in stereo. I think it really depends on what you are looking for and how you are using it. There is definately a trade off if using something thats more of a traditional guitar cabinet which lacks full range. I needed that more traditional in the room amp tone and couldn't get along with a FRFR type solution. With all of the developements and advances in firmware over the years, it's so easy to get a good tone and I also think it would be easier to go with a FRFR solutions now too. For recording, the Axe is as good as it gets but thats all direct. I quit playing tube amps for the better part of four years but since last year (Splawn Streetrod) have been playing both.