Six Saddle Fender Am Std Tele Bridge To Three Saddle Conversion

[crunchee]

Anybody here have an old Fender American Standard Tele, where they didn't (or don't) get along with that guitar's original six-saddle bridge?  I do, the bridge on mine was the type used by Fender from 2008 to 2016, with Strat-style bent steel saddles mounted onto a chrome-plated brass plate.  The more I played the guitar as it originally was, the more I hated the sound.  IMO, the Strat-style saddles sounded tinny and 'pingy' to my ears.  Worse, it seemed to me that the guitar had very little midrange, and maxing the mid control on my amps didn't help much.  Bass was OK if a bit heavy; but it also had lots of treble, and not a lot of tone in between.  This was the first guitar I've ever had, where tweaking every knob on any amp, either one way or the other, didn't make a great deal of difference; it was like the 'normal' sound spectrum I'd expect from a Tele was crazily skewed...and as far as I know, all the electronics and pickups on this guitar are the originals. 

The various guitar forums online have lots of posts from the early-mid 2010s if not earlier, of players trying to fix similar problems with their Am Std Teles, some going so far as to drill new holes into the body, and installing vintage-style three-saddle Fender Tele bridges (like the ones that have 'PAT PEND' stamped on them). Thankfully, there's a handful of parts manufacturers around nowadays, who sell replacement 'hybrid' or 'conversion' bridge plates that fit Am Std Teles, and allow proper installation of old-style Tele saddles.  I bought a Kluson 'Hybrid' Replacement Bridge in nickel finish from Ebay, made specifically for retrofitting to Fender American Standard Teles , which was a good amount cheaper than the 'retail' price on the Kluson website:

https://www.kluson.com/kluson-hybrid-replacement-bridge-for-fender-american-standard-telecaster-steel-with-intonated-brass-saddles-details.html

BTW, I'm not particularly biased towards Kluson, other than the part wasn't as expensive as others.  Callaham and Glendale sell similar 'conversion' bridge plates for Fender Am Std Teles, and I suspect other guitar parts companies do too.  I had thought about first replacing the original Strat-style bent steel saddles with Gotoh cast brass saddles and keeping everything else original, to see if that would help; but a new set of six brass saddles from Gotoh were only about $10 cheaper than the Kluson bridge on Ebay...so I figured that I might as go all the way, especially since I already had a spare set of Fender vintage-style Tele brass 'barrel' saddles handy.

The Kluson bridge plate is an exact fit to my guitar and seems to be good quality, though I wasn't too impressed with the hardware that it came with, which seemed kinda 'light duty' to me compared to the Fender hardware...so, I simply reused the original mounting screws from the original Fender bridge.  The scale-length/saddle position adjustment screws (meant for string scale length, and not height; they're actually more like bolts, IMO) from the Kluson bridge seemed kinda light-weight, and were barely long enough to ensure decent intonation.  I wanted to use old-style brass Fender Tele saddles, but the scale-length/saddle position adjustment screws for those were a bit too short, so I got creative and found Fender vintage-style bass scale-length/saddle position adjustment screws in my parts box, which work great!  The diameter of the bass intonation screws fit the old-style Tele saddles (as well as old-style P/J Bass saddles) exactly, and the length (1 1/2" vs 1 1/4") left enough room for intonation adjustment without being too long, see photos (and I have seen some replacements used on other Teles that were too long).  The nice thing is, I didn't need to make any extra holes in the guitar body; and once I had the right sized parts, everything went together as planned.  And yes, the guitar sounds much better now after changing the bridge, and much more like what I'd expect of a Tele!

The thing I can't figure out, is why Fender went out of it's way to make everything so 'different' with the Am Std Tele line, at least as far as how the bridge goes together with the guitar.  The 'modern' bridge uses three wood screws (plus two smaller screws on later versions) to secure it to the body instead of the traditional four, in different locations; on top of that, those screws are located just behind where the strings come through the body, instead of in front of where the strings come out as they do on 'traditional' Tele bridges.  Everything else--the way the bridge plate is attached to the body, the string-through-the-body feature, even the way the bridge pickup is mounted to the bridge plate-- is essentially the same.  The bridge plates between the two Teles weren't, and aren't, originally interchangeable of course.  Where would be the fun in that?    And don't get me started about the earlier-version 'offset'-mounted individual string saddles!

To add insult to injury, my guitar has a Fender 'Delta-Tone'-type tone control, which IMO doesn't help, especially in trying to tame treble, back when this guitar had it's original bridge/bridge plate:

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/The_Fender_Delta_Tone_System_Part_1

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/The_Fender_Delta_Tone_System_Pt_2

In contrast, my 2014 'Sandblasted' Tele (essentially an ash-bodied Fender Telecaster Special with old-style three saddle brass-barrel bridge) has a Fender 'Greasebucket' tone control, which reduces treble without cutting bass, and which I like much better than the 'Delta-Tone' type:

https://www.premierguitar.com/articles/12311-mod-garage-the-fender-greasebucket-tone-circuit

Why do I mention my 'Sandblasted' Tele?  Because it came factory equipped from Fender with left-over American Standard Tele pickups, the same exact pickups as the ones in my 'project' Tele above...both have two-piece ash bodies too, and now both have three-saddle brass-barrel bridges, so comparing the 'Sandblasted' Tele with my 'project' Tele is helpful in my getting everything dialed in.  The sound now is very close between the two, much more than it had been before!

Here's 'before' and 'after' photos of my project Tele...I hope this is helpful to someone, so that you don't have to go through what I had to!

BTW, the body on this Tele is an earlier (pre-March 2012) version with no 'belly' contour.  Before I removed the old bridge and saddles, the total weight was 7 lbs 4.5 oz (not 4.5/10ths) on my shipping scale; with the new bridge and saddles, weight is 7 lbs 2.5 oz!  Other than the body being pre-routed at the factory for a HB-sized rout in the neck and a single-coil rout in the middle, there's no 'missing' wood.

[RobB]

Kee-RIMENY! “The Iliad...”

Vintage bridge/saddles are the ONLY way to go on Teles (unless it’s a Schecter PT or other type of “super-Tele”) Even during my, “G&L Period”, l always swapped out the bridges for vintage Tele units. 

Callaham has a bit to say about the original Tele bridge and how it’s essential to that particular sound. 

[crunchee]

Yup, I checked out the Callaham website and read what they had to say.  I don't care much for their bridge plate design, it looks too 'American Standard'-like, but not enough like it came from a Tele.

I hadn't meant to write an essay, but the sonic result of changing that bridge was pretty dramatic, and I figured it wouldn't hurt to spread the word.  Why anybody keeps or uses the original bridge on these guitars for anything other than resale value is beyond me.

[Biz Prof]

I'm firmly in the three-barrel camp, although I do use compensated saddles. I'm confident that production costs (simpler to stock the same saddles for Strats and Teles) and customer complaints about intonation (cue Kiz) explain why Fender doesn't simply use the three-barrel bridge on all Teles. 

To me, the Am Std bridge neither looks nor sounds right.  I think the reason the modern bridge looks so goofy is that it's so damn long compared to the traditional ashtray.  The visual proportions just don't work for me.  And you're correct--the bent steel saddles of the modern bridge effectively de-Tele the tone.

[Jakeboy]

I had one I bought here back in 2008 or so and I loved that Tele....I hated the bridge pickup and put in a Rumpel Broadcaster at 10k that just ruled. Still twangy if I rolled back the volume....I found the neck pickup to sound very good as did the middle position. I didn’t have issues with the modern bridgeor tone once I replaced the bridge pickup, but before and after that guitar, every Tele I’ve owned has had the 3 brass compensated saddle and they just sound so right.

My 12 Tele has the 3 screw style cause that guitar uses the string grooves to precisely set the string placement. 

[murkat]

8 hours ago, crunchee said:

The thing I can't figure out, is why

Fender got too much heat about lack of intonation, so they offered six saddle as an upgrade on upgraded tele types. Sale pitch.

[mrjamiam]

The barrels don't have to be brass, you know.  Steel and titanium are available.  And you can get bent ones that are meant to help with intonation, if that's something that interests you, and you don't think it will monkey with the Tele sound too much.

[crunchee]

8 hours ago, mrjamiam said:

The barrels don't have to be brass, you know.  Steel and titanium are available.  And you can get bent ones that are meant to help with intonation, if that's something that interests you, and you don't think it will monkey with the Tele sound too much.

It's funny you should mention that...I also have a 'Partscaster' Cabronita-style Tele that a previous owner tricked out...MJT bound ash body in lightly relic'd nitrocelluose Daphne Blue, roasted maple 'Fatback'-shaped Musikraft neck with stainless steel medium jumbo frets, TysonTone neck P-90, Lollar bridge P-90, Glendale body string ferrules (low to high strings: alumimum/aluminum/steel/steel/brass/brass), Glendale 'Raw Deal' unplated steel neck plate, and short Glendale 'Raw Deal' steel bridge plate with the Glendale 'Bakersfield' three saddle Tele set (aluminum/steel/steel).  I dunno if all the 'upgrades' were/are necessary (or even that effective...but hey, I didn't originally spec/build this guitar); but one thing I did notice is that the B and high E strings were a bit too 'pingy' and trebly for my taste.  So, I swapped out the B/high E Glendale steel saddle for a Fender brass saddle.  Listen Ma, no more 'pingy'/trebly B/high E string!  And yes, it did inspire me to change out the bridge on my 'project' Tele. 

I left the other saddles alone on the 'Partscaster' Cabronita, so now the line-up low to high is aluminum/steel/brass.  The D and G strings sound fine with the steel saddle, and the low E and A strings sound fantastic with the aluminum saddle...it's got the whomp!  I highly recommend the aluminum saddle for low E and A strings on a three-saddle Tele if you want more 'beef', and Glendale sells that particular saddle separately for just that reason.  The only reason I don't trick out my other Teles that way, is because their low E/A strings sound fine IMO with a brass barrel saddle (I try not to mod just because I can, but only when I have/need to...and yes, IMO my 'project' Tele really needed the bridge change); plus the Glendale saddles aren't cheap, even for the one saddle. 

[crunchee]

9 hours ago, Jakeboy said:

I had one I bought here back in 2008 or so and I loved that Tele....I hated the bridge pickup and put in a Rumpel Broadcaster at 10k that just ruled. Still twangy if I rolled back the volume....I found the neck pickup to sound very good as did the middle position. I didn’t have issues with the modern bridgeor tone once I replaced the bridge pickup, but before and after that guitar, every Tele I’ve owned has had the 3 brass compensated saddle and they just sound so right.

My 12 Tele has the 3 screw style cause that guitar uses the string grooves to precisely set the string placement. 

I don't care much for the original bridge pickup either (even with the bridge change), and I'm looking around for a suitable replacement.  The original neck pickup does sound pretty good IMO, and I think somebody here at the HFC (was it you?) may have mentioned that as well, way back when.

[FGJ]

I have an ashtray bridge with three brass barrels on my T51 which the previous owner installed, and which I would have done myself had they not already done it.

Regarding intonation, tons of great classic music has been recorded with Teles using those original saddles and I've never heard anyone complain that those songs were improperly intonated. Can anyone here actually hear incorrect intonation from those saddles while they're rocking out through an overdriven amp? I'm sure a tuning device will note the difference and perhaps we might notice the difference if we actually check for perfect intonation, but can the difference be heard while playing, and if so, why didn't everyone hear it on classic tunes?

[DaveL]

I did a lot of trial and error on saddles because I had a frozen saddle on my nash.     Nash uses bigass brass compensated saddles and I love the way they sound.      One thing I noticed,   Some of the stuff on eBay has the lighter duty metric length screw,  I think the ones with us imperial screws are much more stable.    I actually ended up with fenders version of the compensated vintage saddles.  They are nice and round and sturdy and are a good value at like $20   I thought some of the other stuff with the fancy notches didn’t sound as nice.    

[Gino]

Changed the bridge on my '94 Tele standard for the Callaham 3-saddle compensated replacement and threw out the entire electronics in favour of a complete RS assembly and I ain't lookin' back!

[Jakeboy]

14 hours ago, crunchee said:

I don't care much for the original bridge pickup either (even with the bridge change), and I'm looking around for a suitable replacement.  The original neck pickup does sound pretty good IMO, and I think somebody here at the HFC (was it you?) may have mentioned that as well, way back when.

Yeah, I remember doing that cause I though the neck pick sounded fabulous....but the bridge pickup was awful. The beefy Rumpel fixes that.Someday I’d like to try one of Josh’s “Keith” pickups as it is also beefy and rockin’, I hear.

[Camstone]

At the risk of opposing public opinion, I went the other direction. I bought a unique hollow body Fender Tele with a spruce top about 12 years ago that had a three saddle bridge and just did not like the way that the edge of the bridge felt against the side of my right hand. Could not get used to the edge of the tray. So I ordered a Fender replacement bridge for an American Deluxe model. It's chrome plated brass and weighs probably four times what the stock bridge weighed. It fit directly into the existing screw holes. Big improvement IMHO. Before and after pics below.

[crunchee]

11 hours ago, Jakeboy said:

Yeah, I remember doing that cause I though the neck pick sounded fabulous....but the bridge pickup was awful. The beefy Rumpel fixes that.Someday I’d like to try one of Josh’s “Keith” pickups as it is also beefy and rockin’, I hear.

One thing I noticed right away, is how much better my guitar sounded with the bridge change, even with the original pickups.  It made a big difference, and I don't think it was just because of vintage-style brass saddles, but also because of the new steel bridge plate.  But yeah, that original bridge pickup's still gotta go.  I'll likely save the original neck pickup as a spare, unless I do decide to keep it in place.

[FGJ]

I think the original ashtray design contributes to the Tele twang. That's neither better nor worse than other tones, but if you want a classic Tele tone, that ashtray bridge seems to make a difference. It comes down to what each person's tonal goals are.