Swapping Speakers

[Saul Goodman]

I bought a Lionheart LT212 closed back cab that is stock loaded with Celestion G12H 30s, 70th Anniversary Special Edition UK made.

I like the tone just fine so far especially at really low volumes. There is a Lionheart 20w 212 combo that comes with a Celestion G12H 30 Anniversary along with a Vintage 30. So I wondered why didn't they split it up like that in the cab I bought. Maybe this is a question for @bubs_42since he swaps so many speakers. But, does this seem like something worth looking into and making the investment in time and money or is good enough, good enough? Also, is it possible they came up with this solution because the combo is openback and the LT212 is closed? I looked at the frequency charts at Celestion.com and the two are very similar with the G12H having a bit of a dip at 1500hz

Vintage 30

[Travis]

Love the Lionheart stuff. I was *this* close to grabbing a lionheart amp right before I fell into my Budda SD18. 

I have a spare Vintage 30 if you wanna try it out. I can ship it to you to try out and see if it works for you. It’s one of the Chinese made ones, tho. It sounded good to me but I haven’t had a British one to compare. I had it in a 2x12 paired with an eminence Manowar and they blended well. 

[Brooks]

Pickups & speakers are the most important upgrades IMHO. Big fan of Eminences Manowar & Wizard. My all time fave is Celestions Gold, Creamback is a close second.  

[bubs_42]

I agree with @Brooks that pickups and speakers care very very important “Modifications” you can make. I no long look at them as “Upgrades” because of the quality of most manufacturers are not the question, its more about what your ear is telling you in the end. 

If you like the cab as is, then leave it alone. The mix of the G12H30/V30 is common for good reason. You have the G12H30 that is Clear, Bright, tight bottom, slightly scooped in the midrange, then coupled with V30 has big midrange, great highs and aggressive bottom. The two coupled together fill in the EQ Spectrum and you essentially get the best of both worlds,  good mix with similar output. 

A G12H30 paired with a Greenback is a similar mix to the V30 but the Greenback overdrives earlier so you get a mix of cleaner and dirtier tones in one cab. 

To not get sucked down a rabbit hole and save yourself A LOT OF MONEY, I would used one of the above mixes IF you feel that you want to try something. There is no right or wrong other than what your ears tell you. If you are a pedal player these choices are also a safe route to take. Changing speakers will have an affect on everything in your chain. 

Right now I have three small 1x12’s that I commonly mix. A Greenback, a Tone Tubby 40/40 (G12H30) and a G12-65. My most common mix for my tone is the Tone Tubby and the G12-65, I like the relaxed mids that allow my guitar, amp, and pedals to color the sound with their distinctive midranges. 

 

[Disturber]

The Celestion G12H 30s, 70th Anniversary speakers are some of my favourite Celestions. They sound great for many styles. They can sound very retro old school rock and they can sound modern - depending on the amp and guitar. The V30's are some of my least favourite Celestions. Only Prince could make them sound really good.

Bare in mind the the 70 Anniversaries need a long break in time (many hours of playtime). I worked with the softening the doping on a pair I had that were new, to break them in faster.  

[velorush]

I marvel at all of this and am excited this is a thing but see it as a testament to my own deafness. 

Some years ago, I spent $200+ and was extremely excited to replace the greenback in a combo with a Celestion Blue.  I could tell absolutely no difference whatsoever - even straining to generate some psychosomatic-effected difference. 

I reinstalled the greenback and again, absolutely no difference.  The blue went back in its box and thus ended my speaker swapping experiments.

The Lionheart has been on my radar for some time.  I've yet to read / watch a bad review.

[Dave Scepter]

Yup, I think it all depends on the style/genre of the your music... I play with a lot of gain, so I don't notice much of a difference "unless your amp came with cheap crappy speakers to begin with"... I mean, I notice a difference but not enough to justify the cost of swapping... I find pickup swapping to be more beneficial 

Disregard everything that I just said as I now remembered that I don't need to swap "anymore" as I've found my perfect match... it's early and need my coffee 🤣

[santellavision]

G12H30's are one of my favorite speakers. I have one mixed with a Greenback in a 2x12 cab. That is the same combo that Bogner uses in their Goldfinger cab. I've swapped a lot of speakers in/out of my 2x12 and this combo just sounds sweet for classic rock. I do love Tone Tubby Red Alnicos, I have two of those and they make EVERY 1x12 combo and cab sound better. Yeah, they really are that great.  

[tbonesullivan]

The G12H30 speakers are great. I wouldn't touch anything in that cabinet, IMHO. Vintage 30 speakers are great, but only matched with the right amp. I love them with some amps, hate them with others. Never had that problem with the G12H30. It's a much more vintage voice and less aggressive than the Vintage 30.

[Saul Goodman]

On 4/8/2024 at 5:39 AM, Disturber said:

The Celestion G12H 30s, 70th Anniversary speakers are some of my favourite Celestions. They sound great for many styles. They can sound very retro old school rock and they can sound modern - depending on the amp and guitar. The V30's are some of my least favourite Celestions. Only Prince could make them sound really good.

Bare in mind the the 70 Anniversaries need a long break in time (many hours of playtime). I worked with the softening the doping on a pair I had that were new, to break them in faster.  

Can you explain what "softening the doping" is? I have also heard that the speakers will break in if you have the cab in a room where you play music from a stereo or home theater. The cones vibrate (from what I've been told) from the other speakers and thus will break in. I've gotten to know this amp pretty well over the past few weeks and love it. My wife noticed it because it's blue. If it had been black she wouldn't have. So I had to explain to her why I had to have it. I put it on the one-tenth watt mode and strummed a few chords while talking to her. Then I said, "Have you noticed we are talking at a normal volume while I'm playing? When has that ever happened?" And it's true. I've never had an amp that would play "At Bedroom Levels" as they all brag and sound good. This amp somehow fills the room with beautiful sound that is whisper quiet. When at one-tenth watt the volume on the clean channel is at 11:O'clock so cranking the tubes (I believe, tell me if I'm wrong.) and so fooling the circuits into a really edge-of-breakup sound that my other Laney would be heard by the neighbors. And yes, I've plugged that amp into the Lion Heart cab and turned it down to the whisper db and no, it doesn't sound good at all to my ears now after hearing the Lionheart. In fact, I like the Lionheart so much I bought it's rackmount cousin, the Ironheart Studio something 15 watt for that metal tone though the clean tone is remarkable too especially with the preboost set to 10:O'clock and Dynamics punched up and set on one watt mode. Lots of options for recording with these two amps as well as enjoying really great sound at low volumes. I'm also thinking of buying a Lionheart combo for the living room. My wife agreed that the blue tolex would compliment the blue walls and the brown hemp grill cloth will match the wooden floors. I've also put together a Super Strat, something I haven't really been into, I'm anxious to run through the Ironheart rackmount. It's loaded with a Gravelin, "Lizard King" pickup in the bridge and hoping to get that Jerry Cantrell tone.  

[Dave Scepter]

42 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

 I like the Lionheart so much I bought it's rackmount cousin, the Ironheart Studio something 15 watt for that metal tone though the clean tone is remarkable too especially with the preboost 

Been using the IRT-15 as part of my bedroom practice setup since they 1st came out...

This particular cab has 2x V30 and 2x G12-75 in X pattern 

[Disturber]

44 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Can you explain what "softening the doping" is?  

Celestion puts a lot of doping on their speakers, around where the paper cone meets the frame (that rubbery black stuff). Old speakers often had no doping at all. You can treat the doping with some acetone, but be careful. Also, massage the doping part with your fingers very carefully to loosen it a bit. I have done this on some new 70th Anniversaries that I bought years ago. They became less harsh and sounded smoother. But I advise to be very careful so that you don't damage the speaker.

[Saul Goodman]

5 hours ago, Dave Scepter said:

Been using the IRT-15 as part of my bedroom practice setup since they 1st came out...

This particular cab has 2x V30 and 2x G12-75 in X pattern 

Great looking setup. I looked at that model amp as well. I looked up the model # of mine. It's the IRT 15 studio. 3 Channel and pretty much the same recording interface as the Lionheart. Ironheart can certainly do metal. 

I know I'm a little late to the game but these are great amps. 

[Saul Goodman]

5 hours ago, Disturber said:

Celestion puts a lot of doping on their speakers, around where the paper cone meets the frame (that rubbery black stuff). Old speakers often had no doping at all. You can treat the doping with some acetone, but be careful. Also, massage the doping part with your fingers very carefully to loosen it a bit. I have done this on some new 70th Anniversaries that I bought years ago. They became less harsh and sounded smoother. But I advise to be very careful so that you don't damage the speaker.

Thanks for letting me know what it is. I don't think I'm brave enough to try is though. 

[Dave Scepter]

21 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

Great looking setup. I looked at that model amp as well. I looked up the model # of mine. It's the IRT 15 studio. 3 Channel and pretty much the same recording interface as the Lionheart. Ironheart can certainly do metal. 

I know I'm a little late to the game but these are great amps. 

I had one of those as well 🤘

[Saul Goodman]

3 hours ago, Dave Scepter said:

I had one of those as well 🤘

And you chose to keep the other? Did you like the simplicity of a single channel or did it sound different? I thought is was channel two on the Studio. Different?

[Dave Scepter]

8 minutes ago, Saul Goodman said:

And you chose to keep the other? Did you like the simplicity of a single channel or did it sound different? I thought is was channel two on the Studio. Different?

Sounded exactly the same to me... I preferred just the 1 channel and sold it to fund one of my Splawns