Tailpiece height / break angle set up adjustments

[Hfan]

I've been taking some baby steps in learning some set up stuff.

Was wondering about the proper way to set a tail piece in relation to a Nashville bridge. I read some time ago that one should simply lower the tail piece to the body for good sustain irregardless of whether or not the strings contact the edge of the bridge. I have lately experimented with getting the strings to have a break angle where they do not contact the bridge by raising the tail piece and, when possible, lowering the bridge some. I've been using a gap of about .06" - .08". It is really only the E strings in the equation as the bridge is arched and the middle strings don't touch on mine even with the tail lowered. I don't have the typical cork sniffer ears but I think the resonance when played acousticly is improved with the strings not touching. I don't notice any less sustain either. I've done this on my Special and a few Heritages.

Any advise or comments appreciated.

[veatch]

Not touching is better.

Trust yer ears.

Personally, i lower the tailpiece all of the way and top wrap the strings - i *think* it sounds better, but there are other reasons i do it...

[Hfan]

Yeah, I've considered that too, haven't tried it yet. Maybe next string change I'll give it a whirl on one of mine.

I've wondered why the manufacturers don't position the tail a little further back so this is not an issue. I assume there is a reason.

One of my guitars has a Schaller roller bridge, many don't like them but they provide a good break angle, strings don't touch even with tail lowered.

[hamerhead]

I top-wrap my Les Paul and it plays easier. I did it to an import Monaco and don't much care for it. It really depends on the guitar. Try it.

I can't believe someone isn't selling a bridge notched on the tailpiece side for string clearance. Seems like a no-brainer, doesn't it?

[veatch]

Hfan - just bear in mind that top-wrapping with scratch up the top of your tailpiece, if that's a concern for you.

[Hfan]

Hfan - just bear in mind that top-wrapping with scratch up the top of your tailpiece, if that's a concern for you.

Thanks, It has crossed my mind, that said, the last one I bought was a gotoh and was pretty pretty inexpensive so not really the end of the world...

Just out of curiosity I think I will have to try it once.

Hamerhead had a great idea regarding notching the bridge edges, resisting so far going for the files. Seems like a simple fix anyway.

[Ting Ho Dung]

I thought I read somewhere that too much downward pressure on the bridge can cause it to collapse over time. In other words it won't have the same radious curve as the fret board. It flattens out. Maybe this was in old Gibsons and not the newer Nashville bridge or the Tone Pro. Anyone?

[Ting Ho Dung]

Oh, and I've also noticed tail wrapping works better with some string brands than others. I have issues with D'Adarrios 110 because of the length of the "twisted" string around the brass grommet. It doesn't sit nice and can cause buzzing. Strings like Fender Bullets don't have twists but their bullet sticks out oddly when wrapped. What do you guys prefer?

[murkat]

Not touching is better. Personally, i lower the tailpiece all of the way and top wrap the strings - i *think* it sounds better, but there are other reasons i do it...

^ this.

No touchy touchy.

[veatch]

Oh, and I've also noticed tail wrapping works better with some string brands than others. I have issues with D'Adarrios 110 because of the length of the "twisted" string around the brass grommet. It doesn't sit nice and can cause buzzing. Strings like Fender Bullets don't have twists but their bullet sticks out oddly when wrapped. What do you guys prefer?

Mr. Jay (murkat) fixed that problem with a neet little mod:

Works like a champ.

[gtone]

The string angle issue largely surrounds the downward/backward stress loads caused by a high string angle from the bridge to the tailpiece. Some argue that a higher string angle may lead to decreased sustain, a higher incidence of string breakage or a collapse of the stud mounting system itself. The ABR style bridges with their stud system might be a little more prone to latter problem than the beefier studs used with Nashville style bridges.

Assuming you buy into the desirability of a tailpiece cranked down as low as possible (works for me), you still have two options. The first, as veatch has mentioned, is to topwrap your tailpiece. If this doesn't suit you, Faber and Callaham (and possibly TonePros) make narrower, but still beefier than stock Gibson ABR-style bridges which fit the Nashville studs. The reduced width might provide enough clearance to at least reduce the tone robbing effect of the string touching the rear of the bridge structure.

[Hfan]

Oh, and I've also noticed tail wrapping works better with some string brands than others. I have issues with D'Adarrios 110 because of the length of the "twisted" string around the brass grommet. It doesn't sit nice and can cause buzzing. Strings like Fender Bullets don't have twists but their bullet sticks out oddly when wrapped. What do you guys prefer?

Mr. Jay (murkat) fixed that problem with a neet little mod:

Works like a champ.

I'm looking at this tail piece and the mod is not jumping out at me...is the position of the string channels changed? looks like the high E is higher which I could see helping, but the low E doesen't appear to be. I've had issues with both E strings rubbing if the tail is too low.

[tobereeno]

as long as the string only contacts the saddle and not the bridge frame, and that the bridge is very sturdy, I'll maximize the break angle. I'm obsessed with break angles; on the nut side, if I don't have short-post Sperzels, I'll wrap the string on the post a zillion times until the string is as close to the headstock as possible. Ask Murkat about how I wind standard string posts

[hamerhead]

Oh, and I've also noticed tail wrapping works better with some string brands than others. I have issues with D'Adarrios 110 because of the length of the "twisted" string around the brass grommet. It doesn't sit nice and can cause buzzing. Strings like Fender Bullets don't have twists but their bullet sticks out oddly when wrapped. What do you guys prefer?

Mr. Jay (murkat) fixed that problem with a neet little mod:

Works like a champ.

I'm looking at this tail piece and the mod is not jumping out at me...is the position of the string channels changed? looks like the high E is higher which I could see helping, but the low E doesen't appear to be. I've had issues with both E strings rubbing if the tail is too low.

The attached plate keeps the string balls from sitting inside the tailpiece so the winds on the string - which can interfere with top-wrapping - don't stick out on the other side. That's a pretty slick fix.

[veatch]

The attached plate keeps the string balls from sitting inside the tailpiece so the winds on the string - which can interfere with top-wrapping - don't stick out on the other side. That's a pretty slick fix.

Exactly - if i ever get out of the office, i'll take a pic of one on the Studio - it's a little more clear on a guitar. Bottom line, it succeeds in keeping the ball end winding out of the way.

[Hfan]

ok now I see it..great idea.

[Armitage]

Raising the bridge changes the break angle and length of the strings... (remember force vectors from school?) I can feel a difference raising the tailpiece. It's more obvious when you have two identical guitars that feel the same, then do one. Up makes it slinkier. While I've always heard you lower the tailpiece right to the body to get more sustain, and it makes sense, I can't say I can tell.

At one time I put washers underneath the tail piece and cranked it down... but once again, can't say I could tell.

[polara]

Izzit just me that thinks if you raise the tailpiece you're changing the fulcrum of the lever that is (are) the tailpiece studs? And thus run a risk of loosening or eventually hogging out the inserts or the wood around them?

For example: put a dowel in a hole with just a little bit showing above and try to wiggle it. Tough. Now have the dowel half out of the hole. You can wiggle it and loosen it. So do you want lots of tailpiece stud down there inside the guitar body or a little in there, with all that string tension loosening those tight tolerances?

I just don't want to f-up my guitars so I keep the tailpiece down.

[cynic]

This is what can happen when your tailpiece is all the way down just for the sake of having it all the way down. If it turns out the angle up to the bridge is too steep your bridge posts will begin a slow lean towards the neck.

The bonus you get from this happening is you're able to do the Murkat (or some other guys name from LPF) mod and install longer stainless steel bridge posts. This mod can/should be done to lessen the odds of the problem regardless.

[RobB]

I get the best results/feel by adjusting the tailpiece height to where both 'e' strings just clear the bridge frame. I feel cranking the tailpiece tight to the body, as cynic pointed out, can often put too much pressure on the bridge posts, especially with heavier strings. I'm assuming Gibson developed the "Nashville" bridge post inserts/thumbwheels to combat this syndrome, but I say that without facts to back it up.

I don't care for the over-the-top tailpiece string wrap. IMO, it makes strings on 24 3/4" scale guitars feel too "spongy." The wrap, along with bolting down the tailpiece is supposed to increase sustain but I prefer the traditional method of stringing.

Murkat's Epi Firebird came with a really hip bridge mod which made me slap my head as to say, "why didn't I think of that?": An extra pair of thumbwheels were screwed flat to the body, below the standard ones to support the threaded bridge posts where they meet the face of the guitar. Brilliant, and a practical mod if you're not a "vintage Nazi."