non original parts found on supposed 'all original' vintage instruments

[Hamer Dave]

How much would you think non original potentiometers reduce the price of a supposed 'all original' guitar? How much of a percentage cut in price should one expect?

For example you pay 2k for an 'all original' guitar from the 70's, and find the pots are are of various dates from the 80's. 10%, 20%? Like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks!

[serial]

Nowhere near that-pots from a 70s guitar (most) would be negligible.

[Hamer Dave]

Nowhere near that-pots from a 70s guitar (most) would be negligible.

So a 1977 all original would be the same value, as the same guitar with potentiometers dated in the 1980's. I would think there would definitely be a cut in value not being 'all' original. I'm certain this would be the case in a 1959 Gibson Les Paul, say, having 1967 pots.

Otherwise, this guitar is in very fine condition, less a professionally repaired headstock break.

[crunchee]

If it's a 70's make of guitar, it depends on your haggling skills. Unless there's something VERY special or unusual about that particular guitar, you can probably find another example...and, of course, also make that part of your argument for dropping the price.

[murkat]

your money. your value of. try to find some 70's pots.

if advertized as 100%, but not, well, depends on how you want to go with it.

Our 70's is fast becoming our grandfathers 50's.

[Hamer Dave]

If it's a 70's make of guitar, it depends on your haggling skills. Unless there's something VERY special or unusual about that particular guitar, you can probably find another example...and, of course, also make that part of your argument for dropping the price.

It's an early Dean. Very early. I got it, and wonder if this was divulged how much less It would have went on the bidding. I know this can never be known, but in general I'm guessing it may have sold a couple hundred less w/out 'all original' expectation. Who knows really?

[murkat]

Find some early DiMarzio pots.

good luck

[tbonesullivan]

In the end, pots are pots. If they go, they need to be replaced. I would say MINIMAL effect on value. The wood, pickups, etc are far more important.

[serial]

Deans, early or not, are not overly collectible. I know-I like them, but it was tough selling them. If this one has a repaired headstock, no one should care about a replaced pot or so in the slightest.

70s Deans will never be anything like 50s Gibsons, so I just don't see it mattering more than a couple of bucks tops.

[BCR Greg]

If they lie about the pots, they lie about other things.

[serial]

There is nothing so clear to buyers yet so "fudged" to sellers as 100% original. On eBay, that term is a crap shoot-usually a lie. I always ask for pictures of details if it's an issue. I just saw a "100% original" guitar (a JM) that is "100% original except the refin". Then he talks about the changed bridge, etc.

THAT'S NOT 100% ORIGINAL!!!!

[RichRS6]

Theres little point in having an all original guitar if the pots don't work, unless you just want to hang it on the wall or are looking at it as a future investment.

Comes down to if you want to play it or not but it should have been mentioned in the auction and as you say it could have made a difference to the end price but not a huge difference.

Where would you have drawn the line had you known about the pots ?

[Andrew]

Pots matter the least as they wear out - they are like strings and who wants original strings? Replace like with like (CTS pots) and its fine.

Early Deans should be up there with four digit Hamers but for some reason they aren't. And that's despite Dean now being a much healthier brand than Hamer (or because of it?).

[Armitage]

Many late '70s and early '80s Deans shipped with imperial DiMarzio pots with metric knobs jammed on. The knobs sat really high, and many cracked. If you tried to straighten out the pots tangs to put on imperial knobs, the odds were one would break.

So other then being able to complain that it was sold as 100% original, it wouldn't bother me, I'd probably change them from stock myself.

[kizanski]

Early Deans should be up there with four digit Hamers but for some reason they aren't.

The reason is because they're not very good guitars.

Every vintage Dean I've played was a dud. They might make great instruments now (I wouldn't know - Zero interest in everything they make), but just because guitar is vintage, that doesn't make it good (or valuable).

[Andrew]

In response to Kiz - early Deans are often great guitar, only had 1980 onwards but the best are easily up there. Less consistent than Hamers so I believe you have played duds.

Not just Deans jammed on metric knobs - 1980ish Hamers also suffered from the high and cracked knobs. No surprise as Dean and Hamer shared a lot of materials in the early days.

[serial]

I like the old Deans and have owned five or six. Not quite at the level of four digit Hamers IMHO, but I like them and would get another someday. Theyre a little "cruder" in many ways than the older Hamers and much thinner, which I think makes the Hamers sound better.

[BCR Greg]

I had an early Cadillac that I wish I still had. Other than the "1974 Ford Maverick steering wheel thin" neck, it was top shelf.

[Hamer Dave]

Early Deans should be up there with four digit Hamers but for some reason they aren't.

The reason is because they're not very good guitars.

Every vintage Dean I've played was a dud. They might make great instruments now (I wouldn't know - Zero interest in everything they make), but just because guitar is vintage, that doesn't make it good (or valuable).

I disagree, and can say Hamer also has their clunkers! I think Deans are nicely made instruments. This one sounds killer, and finish is divine. Neck adjusts just like it should. Very well.

Heck... I just got a custom Hamer in the mail a few days ago, and I was surprised the frets weren't even polished well. Like bending on sandpaper! And half the nut slots are cut too low! I can't truly blame the maker, as it is already several years old, and no telling what it went through. It's still like new, so I'm guessing not much. And what's up with those Hamers with the milky joint finish delaminations? Hamer isn't perfect, still love 'em cuz I grew up in Chicago, and they're a hometown company (or were), just like Dean. I've had great customer service from both companies. I'm just happy to see guitars that were made in the good ole USA. And all the better, in my hometown. I'm a strong supporter of both companies.

[crunchee]

Heck... I just got a custom Hamer in the mail a few days ago, and I was surprised the frets weren't even polished well. Like bending on sandpaper! And half the nut slots are cut too low! I can't truly blame the maker, as it is already several years old, and no telling what it went through. It's still like new, so I'm guessing not much.

You clearly got a bad one. I'll take it off your hands for tree fitty if that includes shipping and insurance.

Seriously, if you got a guitar you like, then pots are minor. If you're looking for a bona fide 100% original, 'collectible' guitar, steer clear of Ebay and go to a dealer. Yeah, you pay for their services, but if it isn't what they say it is, they should make it right if they're any good.

[serial]

Unless its someone like 30th Street in NYC...

Deans are cool:

[crunchee]

Unless its someone like 30th Street in NYC...

+1. My bad, I left out the word 'reputable' when I mentioned 'dealer'.

[tobereeno]

maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't the most valuable pots be brand new CTS pots?

I really, really, do not understand this "vintage" thing.

[Hamer Dave]

Unless its someone like 30th Street in NYC...

Deans are cool:

That looks like my bass! You still got that? Super cool!

[Hamer Dave]

I like the old Deans and have owned five or six. Not quite at the level of four digit Hamers IMHO, but I like them and would get another someday. Theyre a little "cruder" in many ways than the older Hamers and much thinner, which I think makes the Hamers sound better.

Didn't Dean, and Hamer work together at one time. Or was it Dean, and Jol? Then Dean decided to go off on his own? Thought I read that somewhere.

[Hamer Dave]

There is nothing so clear to buyers yet so "fudged" to sellers as 100% original. On eBay, that term is a crap shoot-usually a lie. I always ask for pictures of details if it's an issue. I just saw a "100% original" guitar (a JM) that is "100% original except the refin". Then he talks about the changed bridge, etc.

THAT'S NOT 100% ORIGINAL!!!!

That's insane! I appreciate everyone's input. Thank you.