Vintage '62 Fender Strat pick-up problem!

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

So, I have this Vintage 62 Fender Strat in for a full set-up / electrics overhaul. A guy bought this on eBay from a Japanese seller. As far as I'm concerned, he got a bum deal but that said, the seller didn't really hide anything and he may not have known about the neck pick-up problem (benefit of the doubt right)?! What he didn't do though was provide good quality pictures in the ad so though rust/marks/dings etc were pictured, they weren't very clear! The seller also scored this guitar 8.5 out of 10. I would score it around 6 out of 10.

Now, though there are a few problems (ie: the neck alignment was out which I can fix), the main problem is, the neck pick-up is half the volume of the middle/bridge pick-ups! This was not mentioned in the ad. The pick-up heights are consistent enough to not have to blame that for the volume difference. The pickups measure from 5 to 5.8 k ohms (bridge 5.8, middle 5.02, neck 5.03). Whether that's normal = I don't know. Also, the saddle adjusting screws are rusted and some don't move (another reason for complaint)!

That said, I'd like to find the problem with the neck pick-up so can someone tell me what I need to do to fix it? I thought there may possibly be a break in the wire on the coil but the multi-meter measurement doesn't say that?

Video:

[JGravelin]

The resistance readings you measured for the neck AND middle are very low. For '62, all pickups should be in the 5.7 - 6.2k range.

I see 2 possibilities here.

1. Cold solder joint(s) at the lead wire connection points at the coil itself. Try reflowing the solder there first.

2. If you do that and the coils resistance doesn't jump back up, that would indicate internal shorts within the coil. This is very common with older pickups and is usually caused by the insulation on the coil wire drying out, becoming brittle, flaking off - exposed sections of the copper wire meet other exposed sections, creating a closed loop. A couple hundred turns shorting out isn't such a big deal, but 600 - 1000+ and you'll definitely notice a volume drop and change in tone.

I've managed to fix a few pickups with internal shorts by carefully peeling off wire until the shorted section has been isolated, removing it, and doing a partial rewind with new wire to bring the pickup back up to spec. It's a total pain in the ass, but that's what the customer wanted. The possibility of more internal shorts developing on the original wire is very real here.

Personally, I'd suggest having someone knowledgeable and experienced rewind the pickup for you. Hit me up privately if you need assistance in any way - I'm always glad to help!

[triodecr]

Have you measured the DC resistance directly at the pickups without the guitar plugged into an amp and the selector switch set only to the pickup you are measuring? If your amp has any leakage on the input it will throw off the resistance readings.

After that I would measure each pickups resistance at the output jack (all controls full up and the selector switch set only to the pickup you are measuring) and verify it is close to the pickup's direct DCR measurement.

It doesn't appear to be a phase problem between the neck and middle pickups becuase you would only notice a volume drop in position 4 and the neck pickup volume would be normal when only it is selected in position 5.

If all this checks out the only thing I can think of is the magnets in the neck pickup have degaussed and it's not putting out as much amplitude as it should. To prove that out you'd have to find a gaussmeter and compare the magnet strength between neck and middle pickups. At least the magnets could be recharged by someone with the correct equiptment.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

Thanks for the excellent replies First I am going to re-flow the solder on lead wires. Then, I'm going to try the neck pick-up another position! I suspect a break in the coil somewhere as it only drops volume in position 5 (in position 4, only the middle pick-up is putting out decent volume) but I don't know enough to know if that's the problem.

The owner has messaged the seller and is asking for a £200 ($300) partial refund or he will request a return with full compensation inc. postage (I doubt he will get his postage back both ways but you never know)! I have told him that a £150 refund would be a good result so I'll have to wait to see what develops.

I'm by no means a wizzard with a soldering iron but can do enough to get by so will try to do some of the things that have been suggested above

More as it unfolds...

[JGravelin]

Triode, good advice regarding mindfulness in getting solid dcr measurements. I'd take it a step further still: for accurate dcr, take readings directly from the coil lead wires. Desoldering from the switch and back of the pot is no big deal and eliminates any pot/wiring monkey-business that could be affecting things.

As the volume of the screwdriver taps in the video are approximately the same, but the pitch of it is much higher on the neck - that says to me "internal short" and not a magnet energy issue. Magnet gauss does not affect dcr. 5.0 - 5.3k readings for neck and middle is well below what is typical for that year too so my money is on internal shorting.

I hope the seller makes things right on this!

[triodecr]

Josh,

Good information here. I certainly don't have the historic knowledge and hands on experience that you do. So you suspect both neck and middle have shorts?

I would have thought a nearly identical DCR value would give the same output unless there was a difference in magnetic field strength. So would a short near the start of the winding create different output characteristics than a short near the finish of the winding?

ETA: And the short in the neck pickup shifted the resonant freq of the coil, giving a higher pitch when tapped with the screwdriver?

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

Right. I re-flowed the solder on the coils and measured directly at the coil with my multimeter. The neck coil measures 0 and is kaput. The bridge measured 5.89 and the middle 5.72 consistently.

I have since found other problems with the guitar and have advised the buyer (my client) to return the guitar for a full refund as the guitar is 'Not as described.' I will aid him in his dispute.

This is what I found wrong with the guitar (not mentioned in the ad):

* Neck pick-up not working

* Neck has been shimmed

* There are 7 high frets (3 are very high)

* Frets are lifting at the edge of the fret-board

* The low E will not stop buzzing even with the string height on the 12th fret at 1.75mm

* Saddle screws are stuck with rust on both E strings

* The neck will not go perfectly straight

* A piece of fret-board on the low E-string is warped/bent

These are reasons to return the guitar for a full refund and even though the seller said 'no returns' we know we can return it if it is not as described! It definitely is 'not as described.' I would score this guitar 5 out of 10 where the seller scored it 8.5 out of 10.

Video to follow...

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

Why I am telling my client to return the guitar to Japan and claim a full refund (including postage both ways):

[cynic]

If the seller finds and shares with ebay the photos/video of the guitar taken apart it's going to significantly weaken (potentially kill) your case for a return. Bubs has some 1st hand experience, maybe he'll chime in.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

If the seller finds and shares with ebay the photos/video of the guitar taken apart it's going to significantly weaken (potentially kill) your case for a return. Bubs has some 1st hand experience, maybe he'll chime in.

Are you for real? I'm a guitar tech and the buyer bought this guitar to me so I could find out if he got his money's worth or if he got ripped off! This is my job!

The buyer has already said (via 2 x eBay messages) that he will accept a return for a refund! What we are also trying to do is to get the postage costs back too as the item is clearly 'Not as described!' The guitar was bought from Japan (eBay) and the buyer also wants to make sure that he gets his postage back! The guitar with postage cost him £800 ($1200). It's an open and shut case as far as I can see!

[cynic]

Yes, I'm for real. My comment wasn't meant to question your abilities, but only to point out that we've seen ebay make some very questionable rulings if the guitar has been messed with in any fashion. I believe in the case I referenced it involved the removal of the (bolt-on) neck. Ebay ruled the guitar had been modified by the buyer and was no longer eligible for return, even though it was "not as described".

If the seller is working with you, that's great. Just know at this point if he decided not to, you've provided enough for ebay to rule in his favor.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

It's a used guitar for crying out loud? How are you supposed to ascertain what is wrong with it simply by gawking at it? The seller was informed that the guitar had been taken to a guitar technician and was inspected for condition. It was actually the seller who suggested I try a few different things to make sure that it was a knackered pick-up and not the 5-way! He has agreed that the guitar is not exactly as described but is trying the old chestnut that it must have happened in transit! Well I'm sorry but rust, a neck warping and pick-up coil wires breaking do not happen in transit! I'm confident we have a very strong case for a full refund including postage. I have never lost a claim with eBay as I only ever claim when I know the seller is in the wrong!

I don't know where you get your information but there is absolutely no fkn way that eBay will find in his favour!!!

[cynic]

Sheeesh...Most people would have just said thanks for the heads up.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

First and foremost, I don't really give a f*** if you think I'm being a cu** (and that is what you really thought)!

I've had to deal with dodgy sellers many times and I don't need to be told false information regarding how to claim against them. Your information is only any good if it's valid. In this case, it isn't and all you did was come on here and tell me I shouldn't have dismantled the guitar to check it over as that gives weight to the seller! What complete and utter tripe! Don't expect me to pat you on the back when your information is bollocks!

[Edit] I'm not deleting this because it's how I felt at the time but... maybe this reaction was a little harsh on someone who was trying to help! I apologise for that...

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

Sheeesh...Most people would have just said thanks for the heads up.

And see how you got me all uppity cos' you got uppity! Thanks for chiming in and trying to help = I know you meant well

[bubs_42]

Sheeesh...Most people would have just said thanks for the heads up.

First and foremost, I don't really give a f*** if you think I'm being a cu** (and that is what you really thought)!

I've had to deal with dodgy sellers many times and I don't need to be told false information regarding how to claim against them. Your information is only any good if it's valid. In this case, it isn't and all you did was come on here and tell me I shouldn't have dismantled the guitar to check it over as that gives weight to the seller! What complete and utter tripe! Don't expect me to pat you on the back when your information is bollocks!

[Edit] I'm not deleting this because it's how I felt at the time but... maybe this reaction was a little harsh on someone who was trying to help! I apologise for that...

Sheeesh...Most people would have just said thanks for the heads up.

And see how you got me all uppity cos' you got uppity! Thanks for chiming in and trying to help = I know you meant well

Well, I see this got out of hand. So lets take a step back, shake hands and call it a day.

Vic, if you take pictures of the guitar apart or mention you took it apart you are *$*% out of luck. Ebay will deny the claim since you tampered with the guitar. I've done it, I got denied and in the end screwed. I received a Daytona, it needed set up, I took the neck off and the truss rod was frozen, not only frozen but burned and you could tell that it had been heated to try to loosen it up. Supplied Pictures, step by step and...

Lets all say it together...

Denied! Denied!! Denied!!!

[Lockbody]

So, I have this Vintage 62 Fender Strat in for a full set-up / electrics overhaul. A guy bought this on eBay from a Japanese seller. As far as I'm concerned, he got a bum deal but that said, the seller didn't really hide anything and he may not have known about the neck pick-up problem (benefit of the doubt right)?! What he didn't do though was provide good quality pictures in the ad so though rust/marks/dings etc were pictured, they weren't very clear! The seller also scored this guitar 8.5 out of 10. I would score it around 6 out of 10.

Now, though there are a few problems (ie: the neck alignment was out which I can fix), the main problem is, the neck pick-up is half the volume of the middle/bridge pick-ups! This was not mentioned in the ad. The pick-up heights are consistent enough to not have to blame that for the volume difference. The pickups measure from 5 to 5.8 k ohms (bridge 5.8, middle 5.02, neck 5.03). Whether that's normal = I don't know. Also, the saddle adjusting screws are rusted and some don't move (another reason for complaint)!

Right. I re-flowed the solder on the coils and measured directly at the coil with my multimeter. The neck coil measures 0 and is kaput. The bridge measured 5.89 and the middle 5.72 consistently.

I have since found other problems with the guitar and have advised the buyer (my client) to return the guitar for a full refund as the guitar is 'Not as described.' I will aid him in his dispute.

This is what I found wrong with the guitar (not mentioned in the ad):

* Neck pick-up not working

* Neck has been shimmed

If I was was the seller and read that you first measured it @ 5.03k, then messed with it and now it doesn't work at all, I'd tell the buyer to go pound sand.

Just FYI, a common problem with Strats pickups is that the pickup cover can sever the wire going to the lead. It's almost impossible to see, and can cause the type of problem you were experiencing.

Also, when did shimming a Fender's neck become a reason to return it, or ask for a partial refund? You're not the first person I've seen mention this, but shimming a bolt-on neck is like guitar maintenance 101.

[murkat]

" Also, when did shimming a Fender's neck become a reason to return it, or ask for a partial refund? You're not the first person I've seen mention this, but shimming a bolt-on neck is like guitar maintenance 101."

^ this. all strats get shimmed at least once there lifetime.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

My 5.03 measurements were obviously measured wrong as I measured from the back of the vol pot to the 5 way lugs! I got the other correct measurements when I measured the coils directly on the back of the p-ups. I hear your concerns but you need to see the ebay ad to see how he described it then compare it with what I found! The guy has no argument and has misrepresented the guitar. Maybe US eBay/paypal has different rules than we do here in England...

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

FAO Lockbody: FYI the neck pick-up never worked = that's why the buyer brought it to me to check it over

Problems not mentioned by the seller in the eBay ad:

* Neck pick-up not working

* Neck has been shimmed

* Rust on saddle screws (some rusted tight and don't spin)

* Raised frets on the low-E side of the fret-board

* There are 7 high frets (3 are very high)

* A piece of fret-board on the low E-string at the 1st fret is warped/bent

The seller also said he has had the guitar for 30 years and it was his main player! I find this hard to believe as he didn't know the serial number (rusty on the neck-plate and isn't easy to see all characters but it wouldn't have been rusty for 30 years). Also, the strings were that low to the fret-board, it was unplayable! He scored the guitar 8.5 out of 10. I score it around 5. The seller has not been honest...

[murkat]

No doubt that there is issues with. I just recall Bubs having a problem with a guitar from ebay. and soon as Bubs mentioned that the guitar was opened up and checked, He was stuck with it regardless of whatever. Maybe thats here, and not there. we, HFC, are just trying to give you a heads up. that is all.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

The seller accepted the return and is returning all costs including shipping!

[SSII x 2]

" Also, when did shimming a Fender's neck become a reason to return it, or ask for a partial refund? You're not the first person I've seen mention this, but shimming a bolt-on neck is like guitar maintenance 101."

^ this. all strats get shimmed at least once there lifetime.

Unless they're ones with the adjustment screw on the neck plate.

Maybe not shimmed, but all are tinkered with!

[it's me HHB]

Does it actually say " Berry good"? lol

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

Does it actually say " Berry good"? lol

Yep!

Here's the ad; http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1982-Fender-Japan-Stratocaster-JV-Serial-ST62-65-VWH-Berry-good-Looks-62-Reissu-/371483755171

[a.bandini]

Excellent! A happy ending for all but the seller.

Could have been worse.