possible stolen USA Hamer Duotone

[Guest johnQ-ball]

After 35 trades it has finally happened to me. I have been ripped off. Let me tell a quick story of what happened

And then let you know who this individual is.

I had a 1995 USA Hamer Duotone, 3-hole model, orangeburst, 2 seymour duncan pickups, very good condition,

Very little fret, all original, original hardshell case. You may have seen my ads on Harmony Central or the Hamer Board

To sell or trade this guitar. I thought I gave an accurate description but did not mention a bumpy feel to the finish

On the back of the neck down by the heel or neckjoint. My luthier friend said it may have been oversprayed there

But there was no damage or repairs evident. It did not bother me so I didn't even think about it. This was my mistake.

I was offered in trade by this individual a Hamer Mahogany Artist, Black, near mint condition. We both shipped on same

Day and provided tracking numbers. We also agreed that if either guitar was not what we expected we would trade back.

Everyone knows that is part of our deal when we trade. He got my Duotone first at his work place and immediately

Called to say he was shipping it back because of the overspray on the back of the neck. I told him I'm sorry I didn't

Mention that and that it wasn't intentional. He was very short and angry with me. I told him I wouldn't even open his box/guitar and would ship back. This was on Thursday 4/14. On Friday 4/15 I shipped his unopened box with his guitar back to him. It actually went back to sender as refused. I called and left him messages and emails that it was shipped and wanted to know when he shipped my guitar and could I have a tracking number. This was on Friday. I have called his home at least 6 times since then, left messages, sent many emails but he has returned none.

I understand if the guitar was not what he expected, we all have differences, but I agreed to ship back his guitar and

Kept my word. Even if he is angry with me, he should at least acknowledge that he has shipped back my guitar/property.

He could send an email if he doesn't want to speak to me in person.

Here is his information: This is his work place where I had to ship to and where he shipped his guitar to me from.

I will locate his home address which he originally sent to me. I will inform both Harmony Central and the Hamer Board

Of what he has done, and will email people with ads to warn them of him.

Tim Haak

I am sending this to all I have traded/dealt with in the past asking if you would send Tim an email to let him

Know you know what he has done to me. Maybe a little pressure will make him send my guitar back before

It is sold or traded away to someone else. If you cannot do this for me I will understand. This is also a warning

Then if you end up dealing with him. If he has sent my guitar back and it shows up, I will let you all know and will

Formally apologize to Tim.

Thank you,

John Quinn

570-383-3291 #3142 work

570-876-2591 home

[bruce919]

I have delt with Tim before. He is a standup guy from what I can tell from my dealings with him. Give him a bit of time. Maybe something happen with his famliy or he may be out of town. When it come to guitar deals sometime the GAS takes over.

[silentman]

I believe I've done a deal with Tim in the past as well. No problem that I can remember. Did you get the artist returned to you? I can't tell from your post?

[BCR Greg]

Having known Tim for years, I'd say that there has to be a good explanation.

Calling the guitar stolen is a stretch, in my opinion.

[tobereeno]

Give it a few more days...he might, for whatever reason, be hanging onto yours until his comes back, then will send it. In any event it looks like there hasn't even been enough time for transit...not answering your emails or calls definitely ain't cool, but all is not lost yet.

[Guest johnQ-ball]

Thank you all for your input. I hope you are right. If so, I will formally apologize to him. I just don't know why when I called and people answered and I left messages with them for him to just let me know if he shipped my guitar back, they would not tell me or he would not call back. I spoke to family members.

You would think 1 email saying it has shipped would be fair to me. Tim's Artist he

shipped me, went back the next day. I never opened the box. It is still under his original tracking number as being returned to sender. If any of you can just let hime know to just inform me my guitar is coming back to me it would be appreciated. Once again, I am only reacting because I have not heard from him

and I didn't want to let this get too far.

If Tim is a stand up guy, and has shipped my guitar but just doesn't want to talk to me for some reason, I still will apologize and not have hard feeling toward him.

Sincerely,

John Quinn

[serial]

I'd at least give him a LITTLE bit of time before accusing the guy of ripping you off. Remember, UPS and FedEx don't deliver on the weekends so if you refused his delivery, he likely doesn't have it back yet (I assume you're in PA and he's in WI-that's at least three business days UPS ground). Remember also that he now has to pack the guitar back up and get it to UPS and frankly I'd probably be irritated to have to pay shipping on two guitars (his and the one that he now has to send back to you) because he felt the guitar wasnt' what he thought he was getting (not pointing fingers at either side here). In that case, I might not want to talk to you either, for better or worse. He can't simply tape up the box on the Duotone and drop it off at UPS.

Tim has been here a while and people have had dealings with him in the past with no issues from what I can tell. You are newer to the board and likely aren't familiar with Tim or a lot of other people here and I can understand that you'd be concerned about getting ripped off in any deal, but I think it is WAY too soon to start tossing around "possibly stolen", "beware" and the like. I highly doubt it. You'll find that HFCers tend to treat others on the page pretty well. Be patient and this will resolve.

[hardheartedbill]

and edit his personal info out ASAP

[DavidE]

Hey John: Would you like to buy a "jump to conclusions mat?"

[kizanski]

There has to be an explanation for this.

We all know Tim for too long for there not to be.

[hikarateboy]

I removed Tim's contact information.

I realize that it is always scary when sending a guitar to someone you don't know with nothing in hand but there hasnt been enough time passed to warrant catrostrophic thinking. Lets give it a week and see what happens I believe everything will turn out fine.

[Buzzy Fretts]

Even if these guys didn't know Tim, it seems like w-a-a-a-a-y too little time has past to be declaring a crime. You apologized to the guy for unintentionally representing the guitar. At least give him a couple days to get the thing back to you. It was quick and easy to refuse the delivery. It might not be so convienent for him to get the guitar packed and shipped.

[Guest johnQ-ball]

Once again, thank you all for your input. I feel better since you seem to all know Tim. I am new to this board, but I am 47, have traded over 35 times and never had this happen so you can see my concern. And, yes, if he is waiting to get his guitar back I can understand that as well, he should have at least out of courtesy even if he is mad at me, be a man and just email me to let me know and I would have understood. You all may not know me but I am a reasonable guy and that is why I sent his guitar back immediately. I will apologize to Tim and am sorry if I have in any way hurt his reputation, but he should at least let me know what's going on. I have never been unfair or ripped any one off and I wouldn't want anyone to be made to feel that way. Simple communication can solve any situation, and I may have started all this with my oversite toward the overspray on the back of the neck.

I hopefully bought the "jump to conclusions mat" and I can take the criticism and hope I am wrong. I do apologize.

John

[Guest johnQ-ball]

Also, Tim should be very proud of all of you who stood up for him. This proves this board is a valuable resource for Hamer owners/lovers. As this should be, it seems to be a tight nit community that watches out for it's own. I will be patient and hopefully my guitar will be returned by next week. I will inform you if it does.

Sincerely,

John Quinn

[DavidE]

John: I too would be pissed that I didn't get some response from Tim. I agree he should have at least sent an email keeping you informed from his end. I just disagree with you for coming out with both guns blasting.

I'll give ya tree fitty for the defective orange burst duotone (sounds like a dang cool color to me!). ;-)

[hamerhead]

Jeez, ya miss so much when you don't have web access!

I guess John called my house about 87 times yesterday as well. I coulda called back at about 1:00AM (my time), but really didn't want to disturb anyone. Having John take it out on my kids is pretty inexcusable, though.

Since he's bashed me in public, I'll give ya my side here as well.

We set up as trade - my '01 Artist (near mint) for his '95 Duotone, which was described on the HFC FS page as follows:

> 1995 USA Hamer Duotone, spruce top, orangeburst, 3-hole, 2 '59 seymour duncan humbucking pickups, all origianl, no fretwear, OHSC. No dings, repairs or issues. Very Good condition. I have pictures.

$750 plus shipping.<

We shipped on the same day. The Duo arrived at my work early so I pulled it out and saw that the neck had been refinished. Poorly refinished. It may have been an attempt to fix Hameritis, or it may have been more serious structural damage (I have pics for anyone interested), but the runs and dust particles in it made me sure it didn't come from the factory that way . I put it right back in the case, got permission from the CEO to call PA (I have to reimburse the company for that - more later) and called John straight away.

He said he never noticed it. Well, unless he'd never seen this guitar before, there is NO WAY you don't see it right away. Only today - and this is after numerous prior-to-trade phone conversations - does he say he forgot to mention it. As WyldBil says, "Is that baloney I smell fryin'?" So I develope a small issue regarding trustworthiness. Sorry, I'm funny that way.

Anyway, we agree to trade back. No problem, right? Well.... John supposedly shipped Friday, I couldn't ship 'til Monday. But, as of last night, (according to UPS tracking) my guitar is still in PA!

So I'm at work yesterday and John starts calling (I was running prototypes and it's a REAL bad time to be socializing). I guess it was 5 or 6 times (and continued after I left). I don't have internet access at work, I can't make long-distants calls (funny how they don't like cross-country calls on their bill!), and went straight from work to a seminar and didn't get back 'til very late. Meanwhile, John makes repeated calls to my house, even after being told I'd get back to him as soon as possible. I can understand his concern, but a certain amount of common sense has to come into play, doesn't it?

Well, this has been my first opportunity to respond in any way.

Thanks, John, for your patience. Your guitar will ship back as soon as mine arrives (and it's not a box full of rocks). Good luck with your sale.

And now I'm on my way out the door again. I have a trunkload of stolen guitars to sell.

PS - Thanks Ted for taking that off. I owe ya one.

PPS - Thanks to rest of you bastids for the kind words. I love this place....

[Brownsound]

Nothing like a civil exchange to promote trades and sales between people that share a passion for fine instruments...How does one tune a box of rocks anyway?

[Caddie]

Son of a Buck.......Dammit HamerHead, next time I come up for a Badger game we need to hook up for a brew or 2. Is Pitcher's Pub out on the Beltline too far from you? ;-) Still got that Special with the (3) Gibson mini hb in it?

Noonan

[Guest johnQ-ball]

There are always 2 side to a story. Tim I do apologize but also I didn't take it out on your kid. He told me to keep calling back because he said you were just outside

and would be in. I did call 4 times that night just asked him to have you call me

or email me which after 5 days of not hearing from you, didn't seem unreasonable.

With all that said I do apologize. Simple communication would not have let this go this far. The guitar is not as bad as you explain but that is a difference of opinions.

Also, I am a man of my word, and promptly sent your guitar back. Your Artist is out for delivery today to you, so it couldn't have been in Pennsylvania yesterday.

And no, it is not a box full of rocks. I wouldn't do that to anyone. I am sorry for our differences and many may laugh it off, but I do not hold bad feelings toward you and you know a simple phone call or email telling me you would ship my guitar back after you recieved yours would have been the right thing to do. I would

have agreed to that under the circumstances. As many of you know Tim and know he is a man of his word, there are also many, maybe not on this board that also feel the same about me.

Thanks for letting me know whats going on.