Scottcrud Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 I'm looking for a new guitar, I'm having a tough time deciding between Gibson and Hamer. The band I'm in are getting some record label talk... The other guitarist plays Gibson SG's and I've been playing the same Robin since 1992, but Robin kinda blows as far as endorsements( which is funny...we're a Houston band, they're a Houston guitar company...). At some point down the road I'm wondering after our CD comes out and we're touring if someone like Hamer has endorsements.
Luke Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 A Hamer endorsement = paying cost, not free. Since Hamer is presently in the middle of a take over it is highly doubtful they will be taking on any new endorsers at this time. Since the new company is Fender, obviously the new policy will be reflective of Fender's policies on such issues. In a nutshell, being signed is a nice personal accomplishment but not overly impressive to companies where everyone of their endorsers have the same or better pedigrees. Will you be playing big gigs in front of lots of people, or be on MTV, where giving you a free/discounted guitar will come back to the company in advertising value?
Scottcrud Posted November 25, 2007 Author Posted November 25, 2007 Yea, at some point, I'd say yes. But realize that we're in the same realm as Mastodon and Slayer, so it'd be a different scale. I've never gotten any equipment free and don't expect any, I play what I like, not because someone else plays it. How many people do you know that play Robin Raiders? Even heard of a Robin Raider?
jisham Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 How many current guitarists on MTV or the like play Hamers? I can't name one. I've never understood why Hamer was never aggressive about getting young current artists on its roster. PRS does it like a science and it pays off in spades.
Ethan Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 most of the time when i've looked into endorsement stuff, they've required that you are signed and have above a certain number of shows a year...can't hurt looking into.
Chollie Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 You also need to realize that Robin is a very small company with a limited turnout rate, they probably can't financially support endorsements or if they do a very few select ones.
Guest Mike Lee Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 How many current guitarists on MTV or the like play Hamers? I can't name one. I've never understood why Hamer was never aggressive about getting young current artists on its roster. PRS does it like a science and it pays off in spades.Hamer WAS aggressive about getting young artists into endorsements deals in the 80's - Stevens, Downing, Tipton, Reid, Nielson, etc.Unfortunately, that made people associate Hamer with metal/shred - and when grunge caused the metal market to collapse in the early 90's, Hamer had to start over with a return to the modern/vintage motif.After the move to CT, Hamer sells everything it can build, so drumming up more demand with endorsement deals will not sell any more guitars.Endorsements of USA guitars could be used to help sell imports though - if the import line reflected the USA line which isn't always the case.
cmatthes Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 Joe is right above - Hamer does not give away guitars, but does have special payment endorsement deals. Maybe your agent should get in touch with their A&R folks? I've seen more of the heavier bands on their endorsement roster playing the import stuff. Morgan Lander from Kittie, Poison the Well, etc...Can't hurt to follow it up!
jisham Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 When grunge came along, most every guitar company had to rethink their marketing strategies since the pointy guitar, super Strat market died overnight. Yes, Hamer sells every guitar they make but other than Tom Dumont (who's hardly well known in his own right), there's no top guitarist playing a Hamer. Even if Hamer sells every USA guitar they make, in my mind their current ads don't appeal to anyone who's young....I see the ads and think of an old man's instrument. Putting the FMIC purchase aside, in the long run they're going to have get a new generation to buy their guitars at some point.The Standard and Studio Customs are perfect for modern rock. They should put some in the hands of the new generation of players coming up IMO. If not for sales, then for credibility.
Mindseyes Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 When grunge came along, most every guitar company had to rethink their marketing strategies since the pointy guitar, super Strat market died overnight. Yes, Hamer sells every guitar they make but other than Tom Dumont (who's hardly well known in his own right), there's no top guitarist playing a Hamer. Even if Hamer sells every USA guitar they make, in my mind their current ads don't appeal to anyone who's young....I see the ads and think of an old man's instrument. Putting the FMIC purchase aside, in the long run they're going to have get a new generation to buy their guitars at some point.The Standard and Studio Customs are perfect for modern rock. They should put some in the hands of the new generation of players coming up IMO. If not for sales, then for credibility.Well said!+10
polara Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 Wasn't HHB an official Hamer endorser? Wasn't that how he got the Sprucerpro? His band wasn't selling much, but I guess playing like Jeff f'ing Beck DOES help tilt the scales. I need to call HHB up...
Guest JackButler Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 HHB was endorsed.I have been a Hamer and Kaman endorsee twice..I believe Geoff Hartwell is also currently endorsed..as is Matt Smith.Most endorsements are for support, exposure, and offer a discount.. not free anything.. paid deals are usually reservered for those with signature pieces of gear or when performing your clinics if setup for/by the endorsed company.The artist/player endorses the company actually... not the other way around. Endorsements are also usually ..usually.. given out now for loyalty due to a player ALREADY having used the gear for a long time on his/her own.. there are exceptions sometimes if the player/band is a hot up and comer or high profile.. or whenever a company offers to make someone their own signature piece of gear..only once did I ever get a piece of gear from Hamer/Kaman for free..but that actually was a gift from my rep and not necessarily from the company itself and probably came right out of his own pocket.edited to add.. a few things come into play too when giving out endorsee deals... visibility/exposure level.. how much in the public's mind and eye are you/your band in your market/area/genre.. does the image mesh well with the company's/is this going to have or be a positive in perception of our product..sometimes is an image based decision.. sometimes its a visibility thing.. sometimes its is this person a good player (depending on the company..yes, sometimes this still matters..lol).. is this a genre that the company wants to be associated with.. if they're not actively involved in a certain genre.. do they want to be.. it never hurts to ask.. there are never stupid questions.. only stupid answers.. and in the music bizz.."no" doesn't always mean "no".. alot of the times it just means "not right now...not at this moment".
Scottcrud Posted November 25, 2007 Author Posted November 25, 2007 Thanks Guys. I hope I'm not coming off as greedy, cause I'm not, I've bought every piece of gear I own. Just getting some guff from bandmates, saying maybe I should buy a Gibson...I'm not really into Gibsons, never have liked their necks, and the neck is just about the most important thing to me on a guitar. Thanks for all the good advice.
BubbaVO Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 Yea, at some point, I'd say yes. But realize that we're in the same realm as Mastodon and Slayer, so it'd be a different scale. I've never gotten any equipment free and don't expect any, I play what I like, not because someone else plays it. How many people do you know that play Robin Raiders? Even heard of a Robin Raider?I like the Robin Medley. They are today what I think Hamer was back in the late 70s and early 80s.
Disturber Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 How many current guitarists on MTV or the like play Hamers? I can't name one. Doesn't Shakiras guitarist play Hamer's?
cmatthes Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 How many current guitarists on MTV or the like play Hamers? I can't name one. Doesn't Shakiras guitarist play Hamer's?Is MTV even relevant these days? I stopped watching when they had absolutely ZERO music programming!
cornjulio Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 How many current guitarists on MTV or the like play Hamers? I can't name one. Doesn't Shakiras guitarist play Hamer's? I always thought that she's playing a pink Hamer in the "Don't bother" video, when she's blatanly ripping off Robert Smith's The Cure playing solo guitar. A very very sexy Cure... The video is uberhot though http://music.aol.com/video/dont-bother/shakira/1423510
jisham Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 How many current guitarists on MTV or the like play Hamers? I can't name one. Doesn't Shakiras guitarist play Hamer's?Proves my point...and if he does, WHO is he?I know I'm probably in the minority here...so be it.And no, MTV is not relevant these days but I'd still say it'd be a great idea for Hamer to get a guitar into Scott's and other young players' hands. Certainly couldn't hurt anything now would it? Maybe they'd move beyond those of us here.Interesting story: I sold a Custom Shop Tele just today. The guy came to get it and was probably in his late 20s at the most...monster player who's into Brad Paisley, Knopfler and the like (interesting considering his age). He asked what I preferred playing and I said Les Pauls and Hamers. He said, and I quote: "Hamer's still in business?" When I pointed out they were, he seemed genuinely baffled because he considers himself well up to speed on gear and then asked, "Do they advertise?"My answer: "Yeah, I think they have real pretty ads with some semi-bald guy in glasses holding one of their guitars." I then showed him my Standard Custom and Studio Custom, which he totally dug. He had NO idea about Hamer guitars.
Scottcrud Posted November 25, 2007 Author Posted November 25, 2007 Heck, I'll by a used Hamer, and MTV is relevant as far as Headbangers Ball goes, which is where my band would get exposure...
MCChris Posted November 25, 2007 Posted November 25, 2007 Is MTV even relevant these days?No, but CMT definitely is. Product placement in pop country videos would make more sense for Hamer than going for visibility with Headbanger's Ball-type stuff.
BubbaVO Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 How many current guitarists on MTV or the like play Hamers? I can't name one. Doesn't Shakiras guitarist play Hamer's?Proves my point...and if he does, WHO is he?I know I'm probably in the minority here...so be it.And no, MTV is not relevant these days but I'd still say it'd be a great idea for Hamer to get a guitar into Scott's and other young players' hands. Certainly couldn't hurt anything now would it? Maybe they'd move beyond those of us here.Interesting story: I sold a Custom Shop Tele just today. The guy came to get it and was probably in his late 20s at the most...monster player who's into Brad Paisley, Knopfler and the like (interesting considering his age). He asked what I preferred playing and I said Les Pauls and Hamers. He said, and I quote: "Hamer's still in business?" When I pointed out they were, he seemed genuinely baffled because he considers himself well up to speed on gear and then asked, "Do they advertise?"My answer: "Yeah, I think they have real pretty ads with some semi-bald guy in glasses holding one of their guitars." I then showed him my Standard Custom and Studio Custom, which he totally dug. He had NO idea about Hamer guitars.For a very reasonable sum, I could consult with the powers that be and help them with a marketing plan that would have them top of mind and wallet in hardly any time at all. And it's not just about spending money...it's where and how you spend it.
Jorge Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I know I'm probably in the minority here...so be it.Nah...you're not. This has been discussed on this board, at least since I joined, back in 98.My humble opinion?Jol, a great, great guy, and sucessful businessman, is somewhat retired already. He does not want to take risks anymore, and has not for years. Hamer produces very small quantities of instruments, apparently sells them all, and probably does not make, nor looses, any significant amount of money.Not having high-profile endorsers would be today a huge non-growth mistake, but the only explanation I can find is that Jol does not want o "gamble" anymore. He will "unveil" a new model every few years, and sell maybe 50 guitars of those, and somehow that still makes him happy, I guess. As production decreased, assuring sales, he even stopped communicating with fans, either here, nor in the Open Houses. No need for that anymore. It is (was, now) his company, and has (had) the right to do whatever he chose to do.I have not had much interest in Hamer products for years now, and I look with interest what Fender might bring to the companies future. If they disappear, that would not impact me too muchas a customer, but if the brand can be successfully re-launched, I would feel very satisfied, and even very proud of them.In today's market, that involves high profile players, period.Hamer has been, for me, one of the most glorious stories in guitar history, and does not deserve to slowly die into oblivion (which is happening, even though they keep selling all they make today).
elduave Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 ...he (Jol) even stopped communicating with fans...No, he's actually communicating with fans more than ever, right now.Jol A-Plenty
cmatthes Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I think Hamer is doing a LOT of really cool and innovative stuff lately - hell, in the last 8-10 years, easily. It's not like they're only making 50-60 guitars a year - they're cranking out some seriously cool stuff, and have evolved to a level higher than the production shred stuff of the 80s (which was killer stuff, but compare a Chapparal to an Improv, for example). There is a different kind of artistry these days, and I look at things like the Monaco Bass, M3, Newport and Talladega as really pushing the envelope. Would I kill to have a FBIV done? Probably, but I'm, happy to know that there are other things I can get from them that will truly meet my needs. I think that to say Jol has retired or stopped communicating with his customers is a bit myopic. There are a LOT more Hamer buyers out there than those posting on internet gear pages. This is a big market, and as long as GP keeps giving them Editor's Picks, they'll be in demand. I'd love to see higher profile users slinging Hamers too, but they're not having problems selling enough guitars to keep them in a backlog as it is.
BubbaVO Posted November 26, 2007 Posted November 26, 2007 I was thinking about this thread while watching the Eagles impload. I'm going to contradict my prior post. What does Hamer want to be? Once you establish that, then you can assess whether or not Hamer's marketing plan is successful.They don't make shredders - they've been on the new vintage kick for over a decade. They make high end guitars that aren't for the masses (import lines excluded) and sell lots of them. (Although tonight, I took out the Talladega, flipped on CH2 and brought the Marshall/Mesa sounds of the trademark 60 - dayum! Chugga-chugga city. Harmonics galore. And I like playing the thicker neck. This is a ground breaking guitar. )Their strategy is aimed at the industry insiders. This seems to have a greater credibility to me than the practice of developing a guitar around the flavor of the month. Would I like to see them back in the game? Sure...resale would be higher if they started positioning themselves more like Paul Reed Smith. On the other hand, the few guitar players I know that are really good have respect for my Hamers. In other words, they're willing to be Hoosier tires instead of Goodyear.
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