Rock Vocalist = Baritone

[Siaip Ciuvas]

good people of coolest board,

I was pro trained classical singer, and got back to singing only some time ago. Now I try to sing things I like (namely Creed, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden and similar) and I get impression my voice is too low. I was told I am tenor (as most go they guys are here) and understand the ones I like are baritones. Am I right, or its just me who is the issue?

[blackfbiv]

Man, I would love to get a handle on vocal range etc.

It's like witchcraft, man... Can't play the song in 'B' cause the women can't sing that high... so it gets dumped to 'A' ... but try and play a song in key of 'A' we hafta go to 'G' for the same reason... I give up... I just do stuff my way and pray for the best.

It's like geo-thermal heating or refrigeration theory... it's voodoo!!!!

I should take vocal lessons I guess.

A prize to anyone who can get me to understnd how vocal range 'works'

[atquinn]

Baritone is the range of "grunge/nu metal"

However, Soundgarden is an exception. Chris Cornell has a ridiculous range. Just listen to Slaves and Bulldozers off of Badmotorfinger for proof.

-Austin

[Willie G. Moseley]

What was Kevin Ayers (ex-Soft Machine), a basso-baritone? Utterly unique and actually very listenable. Had a great guitar player named Ollie Halsall, and Mike Oldfield gigged some with him.

[Thundernotes]

A prize to anyone who can get me to understnd how vocal range 'works'

I'll get right on it after I finish my treatise defining good guitar tone.

I've done a bit of study on this stuff as I'm still working on improving my singing quality and stamina. Depending on who you listen to, the general idea behind vocal range is something like this:

The vocal cords (or folds) stretch tighter to produce higher notes - to a point. Above that point, the cords loosen somewhat and (with training) actually "zip - up" to acheive higher frequencies. This transition is where you usually get that annoying crack or squeak in your voice. Excessive pressure and associated tension are usually what limit the upper range without training. To get power at various frequencies, you have to learn how to resonate the notes. The lows usually resonate in the chest and the highs in the head. There's a blending of resonances in-between and a boatload of exercises designed to smooth out the bumps and squeaks.

Hope this helps

[stobro]

It's always been my understanding that a tenor has a higher vocal range than a baritone. Think of the difference between a tenor guitar and a baritone guitar. My "New College Encyclopedia of Music" defines a baritone as a high bass voice- midway between bass and tenor. Beyond tenor there's alto and soprano. Contralto is the lowest female voice, but I'm not sure where it and mezzo-soprano fit in the grand scheme of things.

[atquinn]

Yes, A tenor is definitely higher than a baritone. For the quintessential baritone voice, think of James Taylor.

-Austin

[jwhitcomb3]

At 12 I was a boy soprano, and practiced for weeks to sing with a choir for a choral performance. The week before the performance my voice changed. Overnight, I went from soprano to bass. They had to get a girl to double with me for the performance as I squeeked and squawked my way through it using a completely undeveloped falsetto. What a nightmare!

Since then I've had to work expand my range upward to get into the baritone range, but I have to make sure I don't sing too many songs in a row at the higher end or my voice gives out. I often have to slip into falsetto to even work the tenor range. That's why I've always preferred to be the "other lead singer" in the band...there just isn't that much material in my power range!

I envy those singers that just seem to be gifted with a wide range and can effortlessly belt out the high notes.

The rest of us just do the best we can with the gifts we were given.

-Jonathan

[polara]

I think rock music got into a lot of tenor-to-falsetto stuff to be heard over the drums. I have a strong voice and a wide range -- hey, I'm a crappy guitarist but I know I can sing -- and I have to stay near the top of my range unless the monitors are great. So I write songs that use that part.

[Siaip Ciuvas]

The rest of us just do the best we can with the gifts we were given.

which means being good back vocals

and oh - polara, you sure have nice sounding voice! Envy you that a lot!

[LordOfTheThighs]

At 12 I was a boy soprano, and practiced for weeks to sing with a choir for a choral performance. The week before the performance my voice changed. Overnight, I went from soprano to bass. They had to get a girl to double with me for the performance as I squeeked and squawked my way through it using a completely undeveloped falsetto. What a nightmare!

-Jonathan

[ac15]

good people of coolest board,

I was pro trained classical singer, and got back to singing only some time ago. Now I try to sing things I like (namely Creed, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden and similar) and I get impression my voice is too low. I was told I am tenor (as most go they guys are here) and understand the ones I like are baritones. Am I right, or its just me who is the issue?

Not sure about the guy in Creed, but Layne Staley (Alice in Chains) and Chris Cornell are both tenors, not baritones. Also, someone mentioned James Taylor is a baritone. He's not. He's also a tenor. In fact, he's almost the quintessential example of a tenor. The tenor range starts and ends a bit higher than baritone.

[HamerHokie]

Yes, A tenor is definitely higher than a baritone. For the quintessential baritone voice, think of James Taylor.

-Austin

I think Taylor is a tenor. I think Phil Lynott sang in the baritone range.

[atquinn]

Yes, A tenor is definitely higher than a baritone. For the quintessential baritone voice, think of James Taylor.

-Austin

I think Taylor is a tenor. I think Phil Lynott sang in the baritone range.

Maybe you're right, but James seems to disagree:

http://www.jamestaylor.com/

The biography sections notes that, "His warm baritone is among the most recognized voices in popular music".

But what the hell does he know?

I'm a baritone and James Taylor's songs have always been right in the middle of my range.

-Austin

[Thundernotes]

I've always thought of Neil Diamond as the prototypical baritone. Maybe Elvis......

[mykel]

my favourite baritones would include Johnny Cash, David Bowie, Nick Cave, Ian McCulloch (Echo & the Bunnymen), Peter Murphy (Bauhaus), Ian Curtis (Joy Division), Steve Kilby (the Church), etc...

more modern examples would be Paul Banks from Interpol and the singer for The National.

[JohnnyB]

good people of coolest board,

I was pro trained classical singer, and got back to singing only some time ago. Now I try to sing things I like (namely Creed, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden and similar) and I get impression my voice is too low. I was told I am tenor (as most go they guys are here) and understand the ones I like are baritones. Am I right, or its just me who is the issue?

You have it backwards. Most rock singers are in the tenor range and above. Baritone is below that and just above bass.

There are a few baritones who have made it big, most notably Elvis, Jim Morrison, and Eddie Vedder (and Johnny Cash). They're easy to remember because there are so few of them. Tenors cut through the mix better.

Some start out as tenors and learn to sing higher to cut through the mix better. Paul McCartney comes to mind.

Paul Rodgers, Roger Daltry, Steven Tyler, Mick Jagger and just about everybody else--tenors.

Similarly, the most popular female pop singers are low alto, and they overlap extensively with male pop singers. Think of Sonny & Cher. They really had the same vocal range, which is why they closely harmonized so well in thirds.

[Gino]

Yepp, I believe most rock singers are in the tenor range - and for a reason, I think.

Remember, a rock singer has to compete woith fairly loud instruments...

As with all musical tones, the more up on the frequency range a voice is, the better it will cut through the mix.

High frequency waves 'travel' faster and have more loudness (that's why in a typical multi-way speaker system you need a lot more wattage for the bass and mid drivers than for the hf-drivers).

[JohnnyB]

Yepp, I believe most rock singers are in the tenor range - and for a reason, I think.

Remember, a rock singer has to compete with fairly loud instruments...

As with all musical tones, the more up on the frequency range a voice is, the better it will cut through the mix.

It's not so much "the higher the better," or else female coloraturas would have cornered the lead singer market. It's that human hearing is most sensitive to the midrange in general, and the high tenor/low alto range in particular.

High frequency waves 'travel' faster and have more loudness (that's why in a typical multi-way speaker system you need a lot more wattage for the bass and mid drivers than for the hf-drivers).

Nope, they all travel at the speed of sound. The high frequency waves are much smaller; bass waves are much larger. High treble sound waves can be less than an inch long. Low bass notes can be 30 feet long or more. You need more power to drive bass modules and woofers because their motor structures are much larger and heavier because they have much bigger waves to make.

[Siaip Ciuvas]

thanks a lot for good info! Seems that I'm baritone then

[Gino]

Yepp, I believe most rock singers are in the tenor range - and for a reason, I think.

Remember, a rock singer has to compete with fairly loud instruments...

As with all musical tones, the more up on the frequency range a voice is, the better it will cut through the mix.

It's not so much "the higher the better," or else female coloraturas would have cornered the lead singer market. It's that human hearing is most sensitive to the midrange in general, and the high tenor/low alto range in particular.

High frequency waves 'travel' faster and have more loudness (that's why in a typical multi-way speaker system you need a lot more wattage for the bass and mid drivers than for the hf-drivers).

Nope, they all travel at the speed of sound. The high frequency waves are much smaller; bass waves are much larger. High treble sound waves can be less than an inch long. Low bass notes can be 30 feet long or more. You need more power to drive bass modules and woofers because their motor structures are much larger and heavier because they have much bigger waves to make.

I stand corrected - and educated. Thanks!

[Siaip Ciuvas]

I really started wondering what is my true range... I have picked up some songs and founded that Eddie Wedder sings quite high (song Alive, Jeremy), Jim Morrison (Riders on the storm) seemed quite ok. But then I have founded theese songs perfect for me in all ways: Elvis (any), Sinatra (Strangers in the night), and on Chris Isaaks "Wicked Game" I find that I have the same bridges jumping into falcetto as he has. Just went through google and have founded that he is baritone, who loves jumping into falcetto. I would appreciate if you guys would drop me more baritone rock singers names, as I see they are pretty rare breed and I am more or less very limited with my song selection to start redeveloping my vocal skills back