Hamer Diablo Issues

[Never2Late]

I just picked-up a Trans-Green Diablo from a friend who needed a favor - the guitar is pretty cherry. All the pieces/parts were 'there', including the case-candy in the little 'Hamer' plastic bag and everything. No dings, dents, no strings either. SO, I takes it to BCR for strings and a check-out. Now that I've played it some, I notice that the strings won't stay in-tune when I lock them down at the nut. They stay in-tune fine when the nut caps/screws are removed.....someone on the board seems to have the same issue with a new Firebird acquisition. I'm also having some fret buzz on the low strings within the first five-six frets, so I'm curious if this is a design problem with these lock-down nuts (cheap hardware/position of the strings across the surface of the angled nut in-relation to the cap coming down on top of the strings to 'lock' them, changing its tune) or a fundamental issue with the guitar neck (warping). Thoughts? I'd hate to waste Greg's time trying to 'fix' a guitar that will just have him chasing ghosts.....

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

Sure you tried this but: Truss rod adjustment?

[Jem]

I notice that the strings won't stay in-tune when I lock them down at the nut. They stay in-tune fine when the nut caps/screws are removed.....

Can you qualify, are yoiu saying that when you tune it and then do up the lock nut cap's it's going out of tune or are you saying that when you lock the caps down it's fine but after a little while playing it's going out of tune ? 95% of the time these problems can come from someone overtightening the caps or the fact that they're just worn out (string grooves). Oh, and as for a 'design problem', i think after 30 odd years none of us would use floyds if they didn't stay in tune.

[cynic]

I doubt BCR Greg would spend time chasing ghosts. He's been at it long enough that he'd probably be pretty quick to diagnose the issue.

I do basic setup's myself, but if there's something I feel is weird I take it in rather than spending MY time chasing ghosts. Guitars with locking nuts falling out of tune fall into that weird category for me.

[Jeff R]

Have you checked the bottoms of the lock pads? Sounds like they may have grooves in them cut by the strings over time. If so, the strings may be moving in those grooves when you use the bar and bend strings but not returning to where they were due to friction.

You may also want to check and make sure the locking nut is screwed tight on the neck.

[Never2Late]

I notice that the strings won't stay in-tune when I lock them down at the nut. They stay in-tune fine when the nut caps/screws are removed.....

Can you qualify, are yoiu saying that when you tune it and then do up the lock nut cap's it's going out of tune or are you saying that when you lock the caps down it's fine but after a little while playing it's going out of tune ? 95% of the time these problems can come from someone overtightening the caps or the fact that they're just worn out (string grooves). Oh, and as for a 'design problem', i think after 30 odd years none of us would use floyds if they didn't stay in tune.

I remove the caps - I tune. Then I put the caps on, and tighten them down pretty snug. Immediately, the strings are out-of tune from where they were. So, I take the caps off. Re-tune. Put the caps back on, snug them down. Guitar goes out-of-tune....process repeats.... With caps on, first-five frets of E, A, D, G strings 'buzz' - higher frets do not 'buzz'. No buzzing on B and E strings anywhere on fretboard.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

Sure you did this too but if it's in tune before you lock the clamps, then outta tune once clamped, use the fine tuners to set it (I always block my trem off when setting up a Floyd). I'm a bit of a pro at it (tho I do say so myself)...

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

When you tighten the clamps (on the locking nut) it will tighten the strings (some more than others). This is why it goes out once clamped. I ALWAYS slight detune before tightening the lock-nut clamps to accomodate for this). I also ALWAYS center my fine tuners (on the bridge) so I can fine-tune sharp or flat once strings are clamped at the lock-nut end)...

[Never2Late]

Sure you did this too but if it's in tune before you lock the clamps, then outta tune once clamped, use the fine tuners to set it (I always block my trem off when setting up a Floyd). I'm a bit of a pro at it (tho I do say so myself)...

This I did NOT do, as I didn't want to 'make matters worse' - I'll give that a shot later today.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

Well, I can categorically confirm that that is why you are having this problem. Use my method! It's THE fix...

Also, go to floydupgrades.com & watch the Floyd setting up videos there - they are by Adam Reivers - he's a cool guy. It's where I learnt to set up Floyds btw

[polara]

Oh yeah. I have a Diablo. Great guitar. Get it "in the ballpark" tuned with the big tuners, clamp (not too hard!) then fine tune. Setup is super crucial on a Floyd guitar. It'll take you an hour or so to get so the vibrato floating perfectly parallel to the guitar body when it is in tune (note: do this part NOT clamped.)

Then the neck needs to be dead on straight, then the overall bridge height might need to go up. Then suddenly you have to go an loosen the springs on the Floyd claw again.

Repeat, rinse, repeat.

in the end it'll be worth it. Just remember Vic is correct on fine tuning post-clamp, and never tighten the locking nut too much. Just needs to be snug.

[Bobby Marshall]

And when you change strings, only change one at a time.

Remove old, put on new, tune to pitch. Next string.

If you remove all the strings at once, this can also cause "issues" with the set up.

[Jeff R]

The trick to getting the float right quickly on a floating Floyd is to loosen the strings and put a shim of some sorts under the bridge (maybe cardboard on a non-recessed, maybe a 9V battery or a piece of wadded up rag in a recessed's hole) to "hold" the bridge at level/parallel where you want it in relation to the body. Tighten the claw all the way into the body. Tune strings and lock the nut. Remove shim CAREFULLY. Then "re-tune" the guitar by loosening the claw screws. The bridge will slowly return to level/parallel and return to pitch simultaneously. BCR Greg taught me this one. Drastically reduces Floyd setup time.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

You got all the right advice on the posts above now. Take a look at the video on floydupgrades.com - Trust me, once you got this nailed you be re-stringing/intonating/floating in 20 minutes from scracth

Btw: I got 3 sets of metal washers, around 20mm diameter (varying thicknesses) taped together for sustain-block blockers for my Floyds (I have 3 different gap widths on my guitars btw)

[tbonesullivan]

have you checked the height on the string retainer bar? If it is too high up the strings will not sit in the V at both the back and the front of the locking nut. When they are both in the V the middle will be touching the bottom of the locking nut plate. This means when you tighten it down, there should be NO change in pitch. IF it's changing pitch, something isn't set up right.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

have you checked the height on the string retainer bar? If it is too high up the strings will not sit in the V at both the back and the front of the locking nut. When they are both in the V the middle will be touching the bottom of the locking nut plate. This means when you tighten it down, there should be NO change in pitch. IF it's changing pitch, something isn't set up right.

In my experience, all strings sharpen when you tighten the lock-nut clamps down whether the string retainer is set too high or not. I also have Floyd equipped guitars without a string retainer in place & the strings still sharpen once tightened...

[Never2Late]

have you checked the height on the string retainer bar? If it is too high up the strings will not sit in the V at both the back and the front of the locking nut. When they are both in the V the middle will be touching the bottom of the locking nut plate. This means when you tighten it down, there should be NO change in pitch. IF it's changing pitch, something isn't set up right.

Logical - that would cause the strings to lie 'uneven' across the locking nut. I'll try the fine-tuning per Vic's posts first - if the fine-tuners are 'out-of-range' of how dynamic the tuning fails when the lock-nuts are tightened I'll have to look here. This bridge setup is much more dynamic than I thought.....

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

Logical - that would cause the strings to lie 'uneven' across the locking nut. I'll try the fine-tuning per Vic's posts first - if the fine-tuners are 'out-of-range' of how dynamic the tuning fails when the lock-nuts are tightened I'll have to look here. This bridge setup is much more dynamic than I thought.....

It's really simple once you get the hang of it. It only seems difficult because you are unfamiliar with it. I highly recommend watching the video(s) I mentioned earlier. I learnt all I know about Floyds from those. Gimme a few mins & I'll post a link...

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

VIDEOS This guy (Adam Reivers) is a legend re: Floyds...

[Never2Late]

Muchos Gracias!

[serial]

One more reason why Kahlers are better than Floyds.

[BubbaVO]

Reminds me of why I don't even bother with Floyds at all...that and a complete lack of shredding ability.

[Never2Late]

Just want to report that the tuning advice was on-the-money. The fret buzz was due to the change-in-humidity, so a quick trip to BCR with a full report of what strings were buzzing, and WHERE they were buzzing on the fretboard told Greg which way to adjust the truss rod and by how much - the guitar was dead perfect in under five minutes. Cheers all....

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

[lincsman]

Well, I can categorically confirm that that is why you are having this problem. Use my method! It's THE fix...

Also, go to floydupgrades.com & watch the Floyd setting up videos there - they are by Adam Reivers - he's a cool guy. It's where I learnt to set up Floyds btw

Floydupgrades.com thanks for the heads up.

[Victor (Fret Friend)]

Floydupgrades.com thanks for the heads up.

I often head over there if I get stuck. Even bought from there. Good site & you're welcome