Hamer Dave Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 I've no reason to believe Brett's was warped. I've many one piece necks which are wonderful, incredible necks. There is a valid reason to the switch, of using opposing grain idealogy in construction. A very logical reason. I've witnessed 2 or 3 squirrelly early ones. I can't even say they were crowned. Now I assumed that referred to the inlays. However, on second thought that may be referring to fret tops? If so, why couldn't they have been relevelled, and recrowned?Nonetheless, not much prevents a single permeable piece of wood from doing its thing, in certain environments. Aligning against opposite grain is a great attempt to 'offset' such possible reaction.
ARM OF HAMER Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 Sure I have read the "THE BOOK" cover to cover more than once. Its well documented here on the HFC and in "THE BOOK" that the reason many of the Holmes era B&C'd Sunbursts had neck issues WAS because of the warped fingerboards Holmes received[being purchased from Gibson and later the same vendor Gibson used] to be used on those guitars.................Holmes alerted Hamer of the issue with the fingerboards and he was told to use them anyway as those guitars needed to be shipped out right away. I guess my first Black Sunburst made it through OK............ its serial number is 9 0625 so its not super early.............maybe Tom Holmes got some straight B&C'd fingerboards to use by then. I believe I overstepped with the statement that MANY of the early B&C'd Hamer Sunbursts had the twisted neck issue..I'm no "Expert" here but when I was looking for my first early Black Sunburst thats what I was cautioned about by Steve [serial] and others.] as some of the early guitars had those issues. I was Only referring to the "Bound and Crowned" Sunbursts not the "Dot" necks. Here is a quote from Steve [serial] The Tom Holmes-era Sunbursts with bound and crowned boards had issues from time to time because the fingerboards were done elsewhere. That's partially why only about 20-25% of the Sunbursts from 77-79 had crowns. This quote from "Pirateflynn" I think I remember serial saying that the twisting probelm could have been the rosewood boards that were commissioned from an outside source by Hamer. I'd like to know. I talked to Tom Holmes (who built the early Sunbursts) at the last Dallas Guitar Show in April. He said that Hamer sent him a stack of fretboards that were built by another vendor. When Tom received the fretboards they were all bound together for shipping. When Tom took the binding straps off to separate them, each fretboard bent backwards. Tom called Hamer and told them that whoever built the fretboards cut the fret slots too small and that the installed frets were causing the boards to bend backwards. He warned Hamer that this would be a problem and cause the necks to warp/twist. Apparently, whoever Tom spoke with at Hamer said "Use them anyway - we've already paid for them and need you to finish those guitars ASAP". So how many early Hamer Sunbursts that were bound and crowned had that problem up till the time Hamer went to the 3 piece neck?.................who knows, I know my 79 with the 1 piece is fine and one would think with all the guitars Brent has owned he could tell if the guitar had neck issues like what we are discussing.Simply stated one could just say Hamer DID have SOME problems with SOME early Sunburst guitars with the 1 piece neck and "Crowned"[Crown fingerboard inlays] fingerboards [Compatibility issues]...............and they fixed it by using a 3 piece 'Stressed Neck" system which resolved the problem with regards to that issue. Whew! Regardless this Sunburst is sold and going to a new owner..................I wonder what Brent will get next. Edited by serial, 15 February 2009 - 10:25 AM.
crunchee Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 This guitar is 36 years old. I figure if it was going to twist it would have already twisted by now. +1! Someone once told me that 'wood does what it wants to do' in relation to guitars, so unless it was floating in the Cumberland River recently or went to live in the desert, I would think that it would be predictably stable indefinitely, under reasonably optimal conditions.
cynic Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 I wonder what Brent will get next.Something with KILLER TONE that PLAYS LIKE BUTTER, no doubt.
Greg G Posted March 3, 2015 Posted March 3, 2015 I sincerely apologize for raising the issue on possible twisting of the necks. Should have read further. I was thinking of buying this guitar and it's a leap of faith dropping 2K on an instrument I haven't played. No disrespect to Brent or his description. I have purchased several guitars on this forum and have never been disappointed.
ARM OF HAMER Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 No apology needed. Its good to ask questions and there are members here that know these guitars oh so very well so its generally not to long before you will have a answer. 2K is a fair amount of coin to put toward a guitar so its good to know what your buying........... knowledge is power and if your looking for that dream Hamer this is the forum that will provide you with that information to get your instrument ..................or instruments.
crunchee Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 ...reasonably optimal...??Scratch that, I meant 'reasonably comfortable'; as in if it's a environment that's comfortable for people, it'll probably be comfortable for guitars. YMMV.
Hamer Dave Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Sure I have read the "THE BOOK" cover to cover more than once. Its well documented here on the HFC and in "THE BOOK" that the reason many of the Holmes era B&C'd Sunbursts had neck issues WAS because of the warped fingerboards Holmes received[being purchased from Gibson and later the same vendor Gibson used] to be used on those guitars.................Holmes alerted Hamer of the issue with the fingerboards and he was told to use them anyway as those guitars needed to be shipped out right away. I guess my first Black Sunburst made it through OK............ its serial number is 9 0625 so its not super early.............maybe Tom Holmes got some straight B&C'd fingerboards to use by then. I believe I overstepped with the statement that MANY of the early B&C'd Hamer Sunbursts had the twisted neck issue..I'm no "Expert" here but when I was looking for my first early Black Sunburst thats what I was cautioned about by Steve [serial] and others.] as some of the early guitars had those issues. I was Only referring to the "Bound and Crowned" Sunbursts not the "Dot" necks. Here is a quote from Steve [serial] The Tom Holmes-era Sunbursts with bound and crowned boards had issues from time to time because the fingerboards were done elsewhere. That's partially why only about 20-25% of the Sunbursts from 77-79 had crowns. This quote from "Pirateflynn" I think I remember serial saying that the twisting probelm could have been the rosewood boards that were commissioned from an outside source by Hamer. I'd like to know. I talked to Tom Holmes (who built the early Sunbursts) at the last Dallas Guitar Show in April. He said that Hamer sent him a stack of fretboards that were built by another vendor. When Tom received the fretboards they were all bound together for shipping. When Tom took the binding straps off to separate them, each fretboard bent backwards. Tom called Hamer and told them that whoever built the fretboards cut the fret slots too small and that the installed frets were causing the boards to bend backwards. He warned Hamer that this would be a problem and cause the necks to warp/twist. Apparently, whoever Tom spoke with at Hamer said "Use them anyway - we've already paid for them and need you to finish those guitars ASAP". So how many early Hamer Sunbursts that were bound and crowned had that problem up till the time Hamer went to the 3 piece neck?.................who knows, I know my 79 with the 1 piece is fine and one would think with all the guitars Brent has owned he could tell if the guitar had neck issues like what we are discussing.Simply stated one could just say Hamer DID have SOME problems with SOME early Sunburst guitars with the 1 piece neck and "Crowned"[Crown fingerboard inlays] fingerboards [Compatibility issues]...............and they fixed it by using a 3 piece 'Stressed Neck" system which resolved the problem with regards to that issue. Whew! Regardless this Sunburst is sold and going to a new owner..................I wonder what Brent will get next. Edited by serial, 15 February 2009 - 10:25 AM. This is misleading. The problem you mention here would likely be fixed by properly slotting the fretboard for the fret tang used. The added compression of the tang in a fretboard with slots too narrow will naturally cause the neck to back bow, which sounds like what Tom referred to. That is irrelevant to being a 1 piece neck, though the board will not be sitting at a neutral influence (being back bowed), and thus the 3-piece would be better suited to diminish any effect from board. I don't say 'ill' effect, since this can be done as deliberate/intended if a neck has too much bow/relief. Fretting is a science in itself when mastered. What has been written here is not the concern I normally would have with one piece necks.
ARM OF HAMER Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I went back over what was said on the early Hamer Sunbursts that were "Bound and Crowned".I agree with you as to IF those frets/fret slots would have been done correctly it certainly would have reduced the issue or maybe eliminated it all together with regards the neck twisting on some of those guitars The bad fret jobs on the completed fingerboards caused that issue. I think anytime you build something good then try to take shortcuts or use materials that clearly are going to cause issues your asking for trouble.Reading that the fret slots were cut too narrow for the frets causing the fingerboards to bend tells me someone messed up on those fret jobs,that is clear to me.Those "Bound and Crowned" fingerboards are often cited as the problem,the real problem as I understand it was improperly installed frets.You are correct fretting a guitar IS a science and IF is done by someone who is a master it makes the guitar............... if not it can make the guitar impossible to enjoy.I have never had a guitar with neck problems [providing the nut is slotted correctly the saddles are not worn out and that the frets were installed correctly and are in good shape] that was not correctable with just a good setup. I have owned many guitars with one piece necks with 0 issues but I've certainly seen a few.
coolfeel Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I wonder what Brent will get next.Something with KILLER TONE that PLAYS LIKE BUTTER, no doubt....that can be flipped quickly...stay tuned!
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