tbonesullivan Posted February 8, 2021 Posted February 8, 2021 Does anyone have any real strong thoughts on the whole Okoume / African Mahogany thing? There are a few different woods marketed as "African Mahogany", mainly Okoume, Sapele, and Khaya. Many companies have been using Okoume, and this wood also gets used in plywood, so a lot of people are really down on it as a "crap wood. I just got in an online tussle with people who are describing it as an 'inferior' wood, even though John Suhr has been using it for almost 10 years now. Ernie ball music man is also using it, and says that anything they called African mahogany has always been Okoume. However some are now saying that no, the EBMM hasn't always been Okoume, or that they are changing to a different "inferior" type of Okoume / African mahogany that isn't as good as what was used before. Another said they would never buy a Suhr because they doubted the quality of woods that he used due to using Okoume. I mean, Basswood is used in plywood, often with maple, because it takes glue well. It's also kinda soft, doesn't look the best, but ends up used in a lot of high end shredder guitars.
Travis Posted February 8, 2021 Posted February 8, 2021 I’ve heard of several reputable builders using those woods but I have no personal experience with them. That being said, I would be 100% confident in John Suhr using high quality woods...
HSB0531 Posted February 8, 2021 Posted February 8, 2021 1 hour ago, tbonesullivan said: Does anyone have any real strong thoughts on the whole Okoume / African Mahogany thing? There are a few different woods marketed as "African Mahogany", mainly Okoume, Sapele, and Khaya. Many companies have been using Okoume, and this wood also gets used in plywood, so a lot of people are really down on it as a "crap wood. I just got in an online tussle with people who are describing it as an 'inferior' wood, even though John Suhr has been using it for almost 10 years now. Ernie ball music man is also using it, and says that anything they called African mahogany has always been Okoume. However some are now saying that no, the EBMM hasn't always been Okoume, or that they are changing to a different "inferior" type of Okoume / African mahogany that isn't as good as what was used before. Another said they would never buy a Suhr because they doubted the quality of woods that he used due to using Okoume. I mean, Basswood is used in plywood, often with maple, because it takes glue well. It's also kinda soft, doesn't look the best, but ends up used in a lot of high end shredder guitars. I saw that Okoume MM bass on their website. Nice looking wood. They normally use Ash for the StingRay and I believe Alder and others for the Bongo. As far as Okoume being a cheap wood and used for plywood, they use many different woods for plywood, even Mahogany, Oak, Birch, Applewood, Pine, Cherry, Maple etc. If it sounds good, it sounds good. I think the grain, and grade of the wood is important, and I think that one piece bodies resonate better, but that's only my opinion. Some species of wood are rarer than others which makes them more expensive and sometimes more desirable, but not necessarily better for a musical instrument.
murkat Posted February 8, 2021 Posted February 8, 2021 My Explorers are sapele, African Mahogany. Gibson has been using for years, they just refer to it as mahogany. They sound good to me.
RobB Posted February 8, 2021 Posted February 8, 2021 6 hours ago, tbonesullivan said: Another said they would never buy a Suhr because they doubted the quality of woods that he used due to using Okoume. Idiots are free to spend their money as they wish. I'm sure John is weeping bitter tears at losing this potential customer. 5 hours ago, Travis said: That being said, I would be 100% confident in John Suhr using high quality woods... Yep. Makes great amps, too.
tbonesullivan Posted February 9, 2021 Author Posted February 9, 2021 3 hours ago, Travis said: I’ve heard of several reputable builders using those woods but I have no personal experience with them. That being said, I would be 100% confident in John Suhr using high quality woods... Well, I just got my first, warming up inside a Sweetwater box in the living room. I do know that in 2013 Suhr was using Okoume for the necks and bodies of the Modern. Then he stopped using Okoume for necks and switched to Khaya necks, with an Okoume body. He found that the Khaya worked better than Okoume for the necks. 1 hour ago, murkat said: My Explorers are sapele, African Mahogany. Gibson has been using for years, they just refer to it as mahogany. They sound good to me. I know some people say that Gibson also uses a lot of farmed Mahogany from Fiji, but I don't know if that is true. I think they also farm it in Mexico.
tbonesullivan Posted February 9, 2021 Author Posted February 9, 2021 3 hours ago, HSB0531 said: I saw that Okoume MM bass on their website. Nice looking wood. They normally use Ash for the StingRay and I believe Alder and others for the Bongo. The woods they have used change over time. They used to do what Fender does, and have alder on solid, metallic, and classic sunburst, and ash on all the other translucent colors. In 2012 when I got my stingray they were using ash on pretty much all the stingrays and sterling basses. The bongos are basswood, which I think is why they usually have solid or metallic finishes. The Cliff Williams Stingray bass is Poplar, another great wood that people often seem down on. The only real "issue" is has is sometimes the mineral streaks it in can be greenish.
Steve Haynie Posted February 9, 2021 Posted February 9, 2021 Offer anyone a Suhr guitar and see how fast they start talking how high quality it is. Any wood he uses will be good stuff that the Suhr reputation will ride on.
scottcald Posted February 9, 2021 Posted February 9, 2021 Yeah, I'm sure Suhr has tested all kinds of woods and is using the best of what species he chooses. I don't see anything to question his quality or choices of woods. What are these folks offering up as superior to what he's building or EBMM for that matter?
HSB0531 Posted February 9, 2021 Posted February 9, 2021 1 hour ago, tbonesullivan said: The woods they have used change over time. They used to do what Fender does, and have alder on solid, metallic, and classic sunburst, and ash on all the other translucent colors. In 2012 when I got my stingray they were using ash on pretty much all the stingrays and sterling basses. The bongos are basswood, which I think is why they usually have solid or metallic finishes. The Cliff Williams Stingray bass is Poplar, another great wood that people often seem down on. The only real "issue" is has is sometimes the mineral streaks it in can be greenish. Poplar! That's the one I forgot. My '77 Inca Silver StingRay was Ash (found out when I got a chip in the paint) and heavy.
crunchee Posted February 9, 2021 Posted February 9, 2021 I like Sapele (1410 on the Janka hardness scale, according to The Wood Database website) and Khaya aka African Mahogany (1070 on the Janka scale), but I steer clear of anything made of Okoume (400 Janka, Basswood is 410 Janka in comparison, according to the same website)...that just seems way too soft for my liking. My Godin Icon Type 2 has a chambered Sapele body with the typical 'striped' Sapele woodgrain pattern, it looks great with a Trans Cherry finish, and it sounds great, too! The neck is either Sapele or Khaya, as far as I can tell. Godin (like a fair number of other guitar makers) just calls it 'mahogany' most of the time including in their literature, but the funny thing is, they referred to it as Sapele (like it should be) in this 2010 interview:
HSB0531 Posted February 9, 2021 Posted February 9, 2021 9 minutes ago, crunchee said: I like Sapele (1410 on the Janka hardness scale, according to The Wood Database website) and Khaya aka African Mahogany (1070 on the Janka scale), but I steer clear of anything made of Okoume (400 Janka, Basswood is 410 Janka in comparison, according to the same website)...that just seems way too soft for my liking. My Godin Icon has a chambered Sapele body with the typical 'striped' Sapele woodgrain pattern, it looks great with a Trans Cherry finish, and it sounds great, too! The neck is either Sapele or Khaya, as far as I can tell. I once tried to use Purpleheart in a bass design. Destroyed a few table-saw blades trying to cut it (This was in the mid 70's so I didn't have the high quality tools available today). Damn!!! just looked it up.....2520 ion the Janka scale!! No wonder!
Dave Scepter Posted February 9, 2021 Posted February 9, 2021 Just use your own pickups and Hardware Check this out at Amazon Bex Gears DIY Electric Guitar Kits for ST Electric Guitar, okoume Body https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015GM4H8W/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_2E6YXCFM19WER7VGTE8R
tbonesullivan Posted February 9, 2021 Author Posted February 9, 2021 2 hours ago, crunchee said: I like Sapele (1410 on the Janka hardness scale, according to The Wood Database website) and Khaya aka African Mahogany (1070 on the Janka scale), but I steer clear of anything made of Okoume (400 Janka, Basswood is 410 Janka in comparison, according to the same website)...that just seems way too soft for my liking. That probably explains why Suhr stopped using it in necks. Basswood is very popular as a body wood though, even with the softness. Poplar is a 540 on the Janka scale, so not much harder. Alder is 590 or so. "Empress Wood", aka Paulownia, which is very light weight and was/is being used by G&L for bodies, is around 300 on the Janka scale.
beezerboy Posted February 10, 2021 Posted February 10, 2021 yep Pauloweenie wood is the lightest, and it's getting used quite a bit. I bought a blank body for a project and wow it's light, but it "self relics" just handling it. you could scratch a hole through it with your fingernails. the body I got had a nice maple top though. I soaked the wood where the neck attaches with superglue & put in a few pieces of ash for hard points because the softness made me nervous. I thinned it and drilled it from the back side, then covered the back with 1/8" Baltic birch ply. 2 buckers & a Wormoth T- neck. it weighs 5 pounds. don't know that I'd do that again, but it looks nice, sounds nice, plays well & light AF.
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