What prompts one switch to a Brass trem block vs. Steel?

[JGale]

I'll google it fer sure, but answers here have the advantage of real time filtering.

 

Also, Please?

[Dave Scepter]

I'm in the process of bonding Osmiun and Diamonds to create the ultimate tremolo block!.. because people will buy anything!🤘😝🤘

[Jeff R]

I swapped out my Ruby superstrat's OEM Floyd block for a brass block a few years ago after reading about brass blocks here and everywhere else ad nauseum. My guitar sounded fine to me, OEM Floyds had worked just fine for me for decades as well. I mainly wanted to test if the steel vs. brass was for real or all smoke and mirrors, and I wanted to be able to opine with clients based on personal experience versus regurgitating what "experts" posted online.

I found the brass warmed up things in general but especially the guitar's high end, preserving good treble while taming icy, brittle highs. Harmonic content and especially decay of notes sweetened as well. The changes were subtle but prevalent - kind of like the difference between a pro engineer's mixing a song perfectly, and then the same song when it comes back from being mastered is subtly yet somehow even better.

Many experiments with many clients' guitars later, I've drawn the conclusions brass can make a good guitar better and a great guitar greater. Considering how affordably brass replacement blocks can be sourced, I think you'd be hard pressed to find an upgrade part for a trem-equipped guitar with a better ROI.

FWIW, the Gotoh 1996T and 510T, my personal faves for shop builds, come standard with brass blocks. 

[Tommyvee]

I’ve swapped the blocks on my Floyd Rose equipped guitars to fat brass blocks. Chords seem to have more clarity and notes seem to sustain a bit more, not dramatic changes but noticeable.  A relatively cheap upgrade.  PRS uses fairly chunky brass blocks on their trems.

[cynic]

Neither steel nor brass provide the music of the earth

[kizanski]

1 minute ago, cynic said:

Neither steel nor brass provide the music of the earth

dUUUde.... The sustaaaaaaain!!

[crunchee]

I gotta go with what Jeff R said.  I know it's kind of a 'apples and oranges' thing when talking about Strat trem blocks vs. Tele saddles, but I love those old-fashioned brass saddles on a Tele, with either intonation 'steps' in them or not.  I once had a Tele that a previous owner had put on a vintage-style Glendale 'Bakersfield' saddle set (aluminum E/A saddle for the bass side, and cold-rolled steel D/G and B/E saddles for the others), and I didn't care for those at all; they were too bright, too 'pingy', and kinda meh in general.  I took those off and put on a off-the-shelf set of vintage-style brass Fender Tele saddles, and it sounded much better to my ears, IMO. 

[HSB0531]

I like brass; This has brass nut, pickguard, knobs, and bridge.

 

 

[crunchee]

18 hours ago, HSB0531 said:

I like brass; This has brass nut, pickguard, knobs, and bridge.

 

 

I like brass too, but how much do the brass parts that don't have anything to do with string vibration and tone weigh, when compared to standard stock parts?   For instance, the difference in weight of vintage-style brass Tele saddles are pretty much negligible when compared to vintage-style Tele steel saddles, but standard Fender recent-make flat-top Tele chrome knobs weigh approximately 15g (1/2 oz.) each, while Fender vintage-type Tele recent-make 'domed' knobs weigh about 30 g (1 oz.) each.  For multiple sets, you can do the math.

[HSB0531]

26 minutes ago, crunchee said:

I like brass too, but how much do the brass parts that don't have anything to do with string vibration and tone weigh, when compared to standard stock parts?   For instance, the difference in weight of vintage-style brass Tele saddles are pretty much negligible when compared to vintage-style Tele steel saddles, but standard Fender recent-make flat-top Tele chrome knobs weigh approximately 15g (1/2 oz.) each, while Fender vintage-type Tele recent-make 'domed' knobs weigh about 30 g (1 oz.) each.  For multiple sets, you can do the math.

I just weighed it and I was very surprised.....10.8 lbs.   I thought it weighed more because it's an Ash body.

 

[crunchee]

1 hour ago, HSB0531 said:

I just weighed it and I was very surprised.....10.8 lbs.   I thought it weighed more because it's an Ash body.

 

That, too.    Ash can be all over the place weight wise, especially nowadays since it's not quite as plentiful as it used to be.  My '06 Fender MIM Mike Dirnt P-Bass weighs 9 lbs. 7 oz., and has a four-piece Ash body and a factory Quan BadAss bridge.  Check out an old 70's Ash-bodied Peavey T-40 bass if you ever get a chance, they're usually heavy.

[HSB0531]

On 8/25/2023 at 9:07 PM, crunchee said:

That, too.    Ash can be all over the place weight wise, especially nowadays since it's not quite as plentiful as it used to be.  My '06 Fender MIM Mike Dirnt P-Bass weighs 9 lbs. 7 oz., and has a four-piece Ash body and a factory Quan BadAss bridge.  Check out an old 70's Ash-bodied Peavey T-40 bass if you ever get a chance, they're usually heavy.

I had routed out most of what's under that brass pickguard when I bought it because I installed a 1973 Gibson EB-3 neck pickup.  So that took a little weight off.  But I think that 50 years of the wood being able to dry out helped.

[Biz Prof]

On 8/24/2023 at 7:07 PM, cynic said:

Neither steel nor brass provide the music of the earth

I think our own Diablo Jim might have given one of those a spin.  If so, he'll chime in.

Otherwise, my thoughts mirror what Jeff R shared. I certainly noticed a subtle, yet nice difference post-conversion.

[cynic]

7 hours ago, Biz Prof said:

I think our own Diablo Jim might have given one of those a spin.  If so, he'll chime in.

Otherwise, my thoughts mirror what Jeff R shared. I certainly noticed a subtle, yet nice difference post-conversion.

 

[Biz Prof]

9 hours ago, cynic said:

 

Well, shit fire. It was Jeff R. Should have remembered that.

[ZR]

I'm a little confused. I do respect the knowledge of this board but always like to "trust but verify" myself because that's just how I am, no offense intended. When I looked at the Schaller site it shows;

"Tremolo block with 3 fixing screws at a distance of 17mm; material: brass."

So, is this what they just currently use, or is that what they've always been made from? They also sell replacement blocks and brass is the only option. Well. brass coated in some silver metal actually.

I was thinking of trying a brass block but I wasn't sure about this info. And. I liked the idea of the set screws on the Schaller blocks further connecting the springs to the block instead of just spring tension . Probably getting into Eric Johnson territory here.

Or, do your tone improvements come from using a fatter block than stock?

My Hamer labeled Floyd from Schaller is on an '89 Chap Custom.

 

[ZR]

Bueler?

Is this thing on?

Inquiring minds want to know...😃

[Biz Prof]

18 minutes ago, ZR said:

Bueler?

Is this thing on?

Inquiring minds want to know...😃

I have large brass blocks on all my guitars with Floyds.  The tonal difference is not massive, but it's there.  I'm hearing a greater emphasis on lower-mids and perhaps a bit better sustain.

[cynic]

I assumed the OP was asking about upgrading a Fender style trem with a brass block or putting a steel block on a Floyd.

Haven't MIG Floyds always shipped with brass from the factory.

[Jeff R]

On 9/19/2023 at 3:13 PM, ZR said:

I'm a little confused. I do respect the knowledge of this board but always like to "trust but verify" myself because that's just how I am, no offense intended. When I looked at the Schaller site it shows;

"Tremolo block with 3 fixing screws at a distance of 17mm; material: brass."

So, is this what they just currently use, or is that what they've always been made from? They also sell replacement blocks and brass is the only option. Well. brass coated in some silver metal actually.

I was thinking of trying a brass block but I wasn't sure about this info. And. I liked the idea of the set screws on the Schaller blocks further connecting the springs to the block instead of just spring tension . Probably getting into Eric Johnson territory here.

Or, do your tone improvements come from using a fatter block than stock?

My Hamer labeled Floyd from Schaller is on an '89 Chap Custom.

 

OFR lists its blocks as nickel plated brass but I don't think (aka absolutely speculating) that has always been the case. A very fast Google search offered no insight as to different Floyd Rose tremolo block alloys over the ages.

I think the 17mm spread fixing screws refers to how the block connects to the plate. I can't recall seeing any Floyd or Schaller with screws to hold the springs in the block, only Gotoh and Gotoh-built Ibanez Edge trems.

Oversized block will necessitate cavity mods if you want to have the same huge range of motion in either trem direction. I say stick with stock or close to stock dimensions.

Tungsten blocks are in the marketplace. FU-Tone sells titanium blocks and copper blocks too. Titanium is like $440-460, just insane. Sounds rabbit holey, I'll defer.

[diablo175]

21 hours ago, cynic said:

I assumed the OP was asking about upgrading a Fender style trem with a brass block or putting a steel block on a Floyd.

Haven't MIG Floyds always shipped with brass from the factory.

Schaller made OFRs come with zinc coated brass blocks.

[ZR]

Thanks for all the responses! I guess what I was mainly saying (or tried to) was that I always thought switching to a brass block on a trem was basically improving the metal versus some other alloy so when I saw, at least currently, that they were brass anyway I wasn't sure if switching blocks would do anything unless it was a bigger block. Maybe that was the whole premise anyway. 

Anyway, here's pics of my Hamer Schaller-made Floyd Rose on my '89 Chap Custom which I've had for at least 20 years, maybe 25? I assume it is stock. BTW, the trem is all black even though the sheen on the string locking blocks make them look like some unobtainable metal! It's inconceivable! (Princess Bride reference)

 

Does anyone else have these spring lock downs on their trem blocks? I could always loosen them and compare the sound to with them tightened for a test.  But, I doubt it makes much tone difference. I like having things locked down though just like locking bridges and tailpieces on my Les Paul style guitars. 

[ZR]

Also, kind of interesting that the spring locking Allen screw inserts are only on the 3 middle holes and not all 5?! 🤔