Heresy

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

Okay, I gotta admit it:

I got a '95 Hamer Studio in Indigo for $800 (eBay "buy it now" before anyone else could grab it) for the deliberate purpose of selling it. My Guitar Bluebook 2006 edition says it is worth between $1675 and $1950. I figure I should get no less than $1400 for it. At the very, very worst, I shouldn't lose money on it.

A week later, I saw an Artist Custom in Natural for $1k "Buy it Now), and since the bluebook said it should be worth between $2050 and $2350, I jumped on that one, too, because I've got huge margin for profit there.

I figured I'd get a chance to play two great Hamer guitars for a month or so, sell 'em, and with the profit from the two, I'd be able to buy a Hamer USA; possibly enough for a Studio, or probably more than enough for a used Special or Eclipse between $600-900...at worst, a profit of a few hundred dollars would justify continuing to use "buy it now" to grab good deals and slowly build up my stash until I had enough to get a Hamer USA...

But here's the deal: After playing both guitars, I actually like my XT Series SATF just as much (slightly more than the previously mentioned Stellar 1). I'm sure the XT series has a consistency problem, and I was lucky enough to end up with a good one instead of a crappy one, but still: I can tell a very slight difference in tone from the Artist to the Studio to the SATF, but it isn't enough to make me feel the XT is lacking at all.

All three have the headstock-heavy feel I've learned to associate with Hamer, but have also learned to accomodate/overcome. The XT has infinitestimally higher action than the other two, but doesn't seem to slow me down at all. In fact, all 3 guitars make me a far better-sounding guitarist.

So am I crazy? Is it just that my little amp sucks so I can't tell the difference? Hell, any Hamer through my Roland MicroCube already sounds good enough to get me choked up...if a bigger amp made 'em sound any better, I'd probably short out the guitar with uncontrollable tears of joy.

Thoughts?

[MCChris]

Your Blue Book is WAY off.

[Cary]

Thoughts?

The guy that wrote the Bluebook was high on crack.

[cmatthes]

Chris is right on - the Blue Book values (either the std Blue Book or the VG price lists) are worthless when it comes to Hamer values.

If that was the case, 4-digit Standards would sell for $1,700, mid-80s FBIIs would be selling between $500-$600 and recent Studio Customs would be bringing home $2,500.

This place and EBay are probably the most reliable when it comes to pricing these guitars.

Don't let the inevitable offers of $350 throw ya though!

[mirrorimij]

I'd say you paid fair market value for the USA Hamers you have. In my opinion Hamer USA values have never been properly represented in the blue book. Hamers have never had the best resale but they are probably the best bang for the buck on the used market

Now is not a good time to be selling anything. It is a buyers market and a lot of nice stuff can be had if you 've got the $$$.

As far as you liking the import better- play the one you like. Personally I like the feel of the USA stuff better. Pickups, hardware, etc can be swapped but, in my opinion, you can't upgrade the imports to the level of fit, finish and feel of Hamer USA.

[ET_KenW]

First off, the Bluebook does not truly reflect the average selling price of a used Hamer. E-bay is a better indicator of current market prices. $800 for a Studio, and not a Studio Custom is towards the low end of the range, so it still is a decent price.

As for liking your XT series as much as the USA versions you have, that is not unusual. I had a import Daytona that I thoroughly enjoyed while I had it. The tone was exactly what I had expected out of a Strat, but never heard with any of the Fenders I tried. The only reason I sold it was because I was trying to get money for someting else, and I couldn't justify three electric guitars for a bedroom player.

I did end up getting a USA made Daytona a few years ago, and it is definately a different animal than the import. There is just something to me about the feel of the necks of imports that sometimes turn me off. I can't explain it. One of my friends son is getting into guitars. He's going the typical teenager route of imports first. He has a very nice Mexican Strat that even to me feels awesome. But he definately notices a difference with my USA models. And again the comment comes to the neck. Basically he, and almost everyone else that has tried my 25th Anniversary comment that the neck just feels so comfortable and played in.

If you do get a chance to try a larger amp with the guitars for comparison, do so. You may, or may not, notice the difference.

[sw686blue]

If you intend on selling those guitars you'll likely make out even-steven. Maybe a small loss, maybe a small profit.

The blue book does not apply to Hamers.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

dang.

I figured the Blue Book price was at least an indication the guitars I got were significantly underpriced, because I've seen plenty of Artist Customs with "Buy it Now"s and reserves above $1400, and plenty of Studios with "Buy it Now"s and reserves above $1100.

Plus, the values for the XTs, Specials, Eclipses, and other guitar brands seem to be within $50-$100 of the Blue Book (with larger variations as the price goes higher of course).

I should say I never expected to get $2300 for the Artist Custom, and would consider it a miracle to get $2k. I just figured $1600-1800 was the probable range.

I was going to wait until after Christmas because I don't need the cash returned right away; I can sit on 'em a few months.

[sigh]

Near market value? My wife is going to kill me, then.

[Feynman]

Near market value? My wife is going to kill me, then.

If you'd like, make a new thread and we can all praise your awesome steals, then you can show that to her.

[Russ]

Near market value? My wife is going to kill me, then.

Then just make sure she only sees the "blue book"...

A supposedly "mint" 95 Studio in indigo went I think on Tuesday for $725 on the bay. I have been watching these things closely, as, well, it IS a buyers market, and I've added 3 in the last 5 months.

[serial]

I guarantee you that I know more than every single Blue Book contributor does or will ever know about Hamer guitars, resales, features, etc. The Blue Book is less than useless as far as Hamer values go. Always has been. In fact, the Blue Book (and the Vintage Guitar Price Guides) have been completely useless for just about all brands unless you're a dealer trying to buy a guitar off of a walk-in who thinks their guitar is worth a ton). EBay and the internet have made those things completely obsolete and they have been for almost ten years.

Not blowing my own horn, just stating a fact-I've spent years researching the stuff. Most people here probably know more than any of the contributors do, actually and are not as much of a Hamer-dork as I am.

As for your Artist Custom, what it is worth is completely driven by the year. As with anything else, if you're looking to make money flipping something, you need to educate yourself as much as possible. The features have changed considerably on the AC model (bound headstock wasn't standard until 03 or so, inlaid logo, etc), so there's a huge resale range on those depending on how old it is (90s models tend to go for close to 1/2 of the newer ones).

As for the value of the Blue Book?

Everyone will take a loss on that one!

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

Near market value? My wife is going to kill me, then.

If you'd like, make a new thread and we can all praise your awesome steals, then you can show that to her.

LOL!

You guys are the greatest!

My plan is to use Craigslist, my own website, and local postings (including on the local military base).

I will provide a link to a YouTube video of me playing the guitars, which should highlight the condition better than just a series of photos, and allow me to demonstrate the tone. That should help remove any doubts about the guitars from potential buyers.

I don't want to use eBay because of how much I'd lose in posting, selling and PayPal fees, but I will if I have to. The YouTube trick should help squeeze an extra $50-100, I think. I know there are guitars I would have bid on if I could have heard them played first.

Or am I being even more naive?

[ET_KenW]

Near market value? My wife is going to kill me, then.

If you'd like, make a new thread and we can all praise your awesome steals, then you can show that to her.

LOL!

You guys are the greatest!

My plan is to use Craigslist, my own website, and local postings (including on the local military base).

I will provide a link to a YouTube video of me playing the guitars, which should highlight the condition better than just a series of photos, and allow me to demonstrate the tone. That should help remove any doubts about the guitars from potential buyers.

I don't want to use eBay because of how much I'd lose in posting, selling and PayPal fees, but I will if I have to. The YouTube trick should help squeeze an extra $50-100, I think. I know there are guitars I would have bid on if I could have heard them played first.

Or am I being even more naive?

Not naive at all. A good sales tactic always helps, and possibly adds to the sale.

[Russ]

Absolutely no disrespect intended, but, a youtube video would do absolutely nothing for my purchasing decisions, Unless of course you have a professional sound studio, and a pro engineer recording the guitar, and upload an uncompressed audio file. I have yet to ear ANYTHING on youtube that didn't sound like an AM Radio in a tin can.

[BubbaVO]

Your best bet is to sell me the indigo for $350.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

Your best bet is to sell me the indigo for $350.

Ha.

You know I charge $600 for shipping?

[silentman]

Indigo was not available in 1995.

[DavidE]

$1,000 is a nice deal on an Artist Custom. In today's market, you'll be lucky to make $200 on that.

Don't expect another dime on the '95 studio though. Well, maybe $50 if you're lucky.

As for the import vs. USA.... I can guarantee you that the USA guitars are better made with better parts. But are they better? Not for you and that's all that really matters.

[cmatthes]

I think the greater value to you in putting a YouTube clip will be to add more weight to prospective buyers that the guitar is legit, and not some internet scam sale. I know that if I clicked on two eBay auctions for the same kind of guitar and they were otherwise equal, my comfort level would be greater that the guitar linked with another source like that actually existed and was in the seller's hands.

Of course, YouTube always opens up comments/critiques of your playing...

[bubs_42]

I guarantee you that I know more than every single Blue Book contributor does or will ever know about Hamer guitars, resales, features, etc. The Blue Book is less than useless as far as Hamer values go. Always has been. In fact, the Blue Book (and the Vintage Guitar Price Guides) have been completely useless for just about all brands unless you're a dealer trying to buy a guitar off of a walk-in who thinks their guitar is worth a ton). EBay and the internet have made those things completely obsolete and they have been for almost ten years.

Not blowing my own horn, just stating a fact-I've spent years researching the stuff. Most people here probably know more than any of the contributors do, actually and are not as much of a Hamer-dork as I am.

As for your Artist Custom, what it is worth is completely driven by the year. As with anything else, if you're looking to make money flipping something, you need to educate yourself as much as possible. The features have changed considerably on the AC model (bound headstock wasn't standard until 03 or so, inlaid logo, etc), so there's a huge resale range on those depending on how old it is (90s models tend to go for close to 1/2 of the newer ones).

As for the value of the Blue Book?

Everyone will take a loss on that one!

Aren't you that Mathers guy?

[serial]

I don't know, on some guitars that I'm not as familiar with, I've found SOME Youtube clips helpful. With the older 70s Japanese lawsuit guitars, some of those clips demonstrate that the guitar will NOT sound that good, while others have shown the opposite. I'm aware of the limitations with the format but the one thing that I think would be more helpful when adding a clip (same for Gibson's website) is to vary the samples. Play clean on each pickup, play with gain on each pickup, play some chordal stuff and then some lead lines. Just hearing one or two licks or chord patterns with the same tonal setting is useless to me.

[Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame]

I think the greater value to you in putting a YouTube clip will be to add more weight to prospective buyers that the guitar is legit, and not some internet scam sale. I know that if I clicked on two eBay auctions for the same kind of guitar and they were otherwise equal, my comfort level would be greater that the guitar linked with another source like that actually existed and was in the seller's hands.

Of course, YouTube always opens up comments/critiques of your playing...

I'm fully comfortable in the fact that my guitar playing reeks.

Hmm...maybe that's a better answer than "inadquate amp" to why I consider the XT an equal to the Studio: "Inadequate player".

I'll make sure I post the link here so everyone can have a good chuckle.

Indigo was not available in 1995.

Hmmm.

Well, it's blue and has the Wilkinson Hardtail Wraparound Bridge, stamped 5XXXX.

Are you distinguishing "Blue Transparent" from "Indigo"? Or are you saying there was no blue Studio offered at all in 95?

It can't be a Studio Custom because it has dot inlays and isn't bound.

Can anyone shed any light, or should I post pictures?

[cmatthes]

Hamer did offer "Kool Blue" (standard on Mirages) and "Blue Trans" (Standard on Daytonas, T-51s and done on some Eclipse guitars) in 1995.

You could also get custom colors done as well, but it's probably one of those.

[gregc]

I recently had a dealer (not one from here)offer me a Studio Custom @ 1300. Not blue, but I wouldn't have any interest in a blue one anyway. Neither blue or green do anything for me. Just FYi...

[Russ]

I do not, nor will I even think about claiming having anywhere near the Hamer knowledge amassed on this board, so, I am asking "what color is this?" (pic below). This guitar is a 95 Studio from ebay, the seller says it's indigo blue. The MAIN reason I'm asking, is that I own a 95 studio exactly like it...