Revisiting String Height/Action

[LucSulla]

A couple of months ago, I was so frustrated with a guitar I have that I almost posted it for sale here. It was something that would have been pretty desirable on this forum, and I'll leave it at that. 

I just flat couldn't play it. It was fretting out or anything like that, but I just couldn't dig into it. It was a light touch but somehow stiff at the same time. The string height was as low as you can get without buzzing. After spending an evening threatening to take pictures and post it, I thought to myself, "If you let this go, you'll never have another one. You better make damn sure you want to get rid of it. What have you not tried?"

Well, one thing I hadn't thought about was raising the string action because, by the book, it was perfect. So I raised the bridge a smidge and added just a slight bit more bow in the neck, and *boom* we're back doing big bends and shredding. 

So I started checking out guitars I own that I consider super comfortable and those I struggle to play. All the players were just a little higher than the norm, and the others were set up as low as possible. As I've been changing strings for gigs, I've been raising those a tad and finding that fixes the problem.

It kind of got me wondering how many other people like medium-low/medium action. Forum wisdom (and even before) tended to always say you should set your action as low as possible without buzzing, but I need a little more space to get my fingers to dig into the string right, especially for holding bends and so on. 

[crunchee]

If there's one thing that turns me off about a guitar or bass, it's fret buzz.  I HATE fret buzz.  I grew up playing guitar in the '70's and listening to hard rawk and blues, and that's how I learned to set up guitar...to let the strings ring naturally.  I always thought that low string height tended to kill string vibration, but maybe that's just me.  Of course, I ain't a lightning-fast shredder, either!  

[Travis]

2 hours ago, LucSulla said:

A couple of months ago, I was so frustrated with a guitar I have that I almost posted it for sale here. It was something that would have been pretty desirable on this forum, and I'll leave it at that. 

I just flat couldn't play it. It was fretting out or anything like that, but I just couldn't dig into it. It was a light touch but somehow stiff at the same time. The string height was as low as you can get without buzzing. After spending an evening threatening to take pictures and post it, I thought to myself, "If you let this go, you'll never have another one. You better make damn sure you want to get rid of it. What have you not tried?"

Well, one thing I hadn't thought about was raising the string action because, by the book, it was perfect. So I raised the bridge a smidge and added just a slight bit more bow in the neck, and *boom* we're back doing big bends and shredding. 

So I started checking out guitars I own that I consider super comfortable and those I struggle to play. All the players were just a little higher than the norm, and the others were set up as low as possible. As I've been changing strings for gigs, I've been raising those a tad and finding that fixes the problem.

It kind of got me wondering how many other people like medium-low/medium action. Forum wisdom (and even before) tended to always say you should set your action as low as possible without buzzing, but I need a little more space to get my fingers to dig into the string right, especially for holding bends and so on. 

If it was the mahogany Talladega, then I think you might be mistaken about the string action and your first instinct to sell it was probably correct. You’re probably gonna get tired of it with higher action and think to yourself, I really need an Ibanez wizard with strings practically on the frets. 

so, just let me know when you finally figure it out… 😜

[LucSulla]

39 minutes ago, Travis said:

If it was the mahogany Talladega, then I think you might be mistaken about the string action and your first instinct to sell it was probably correct. You’re probably gonna get tired of it with higher action and think to yourself, I really need an Ibanez wizard with strings practically on the frets. 

so, just let me know when you finally figure it out… 😜

No, that guitar plays sublimely well. Actually has a Tally-pro style neck. Soft V. Definitely a one of a kind. 

Edited August 1, 2024 by LucSulla

[BoogieMKIIA]

I have started raising the high E and B strings on my Telecaster. May try to adjust the relief. The action is low but not super low. Mostly the high E not bending so clean from about the 7th fret through 14th. 
 

I can’t see straight, so I can’t really judge what may be not quite perfect. A Plek might could map it, at a high cost. I wonder if how the neck bows with truss rod adjustment is not “centered” up and down the neck or some slight twist.  That’s why I only try small, reversible adjustments or take it to a pro if I’m not successful.

 

[RobB]

I think it has more to do with the fret crowning. Properly dressed frets (PLEKKED or not) give you more choices in setting action. Setting the saddles on a TOM to the fretboard radius is a good idea, as well.

[BoogieMKIIA]

3 hours ago, RobB said:

I think it has more to do with the fret crowning. Properly dressed frets (PLEKKED or not) give you more choices in setting action. Setting the saddles on a TOM to the fretboard radius is a good idea, as well.

Yes, frets are extremely important! I was assuming the frets were checked or assumed to be good. But yes, one section of a fret can cause buzz or feel that raising the action higher helps.

[tbonesullivan]

I find that radius, neck carve, fret size, and other things impact what kind of action I like on a guitar. I don't like super low action, and 3/64" is about the lowest I will go even on the high E string. I also have found some guitars that just "feel" stiff, even though they are set up just like another guitar that feels more pliable. I think bridge and nut break angle can affect that somewhat, as if it's hard for the string to move over either, it feels harder to move the strings.

[Disturber]

14 hours ago, LucSulla said:

A couple of months ago, I was so frustrated with a guitar I have that I almost posted it for sale here. It was something that would have been pretty desirable on this forum, and I'll leave it at that. 

I just flat couldn't play it. It was fretting out or anything like that, but I just couldn't dig into it. It was a light touch but somehow stiff at the same time. The string height was as low as you can get without buzzing. After spending an evening threatening to take pictures and post it, I thought to myself, "If you let this go, you'll never have another one. You better make damn sure you want to get rid of it. What have you not tried?"

 

I can do a reasonable set up on most of my guitars. But some have had things happen to them over the years. Could be a slight bump in the fretboard or something with the action etc. Usually when I can not get it right, and feel as you describe above, and I don't want to give up on the guitar because I like it, then I leave it to my tech for a set up.
I just did that with my Les Paul. It played great, but I could not set the neck right. My tech fixed it. It actually needed new saddles to play absolutely right. But he did a super job, the guitar feels completely different. The very light fret buzz, than annoyed the hell out of me and that I could not remove, is completely gone. He did not need to crown or level the frets, he just worked his magic on the gutiar. So, if you can not fix it yourself, leave it to a pro.

[LucSulla]

6 hours ago, Disturber said:

 

I can do a reasonable set up on most of my guitars. But some have had things happen to them over the years. Could be a slight bump in the fretboard or something with the action etc. Usually when I can not get it right, and feel as you describe above, and I don't want to give up on the guitar because I like it, then I leave it to my tech for a set up.
I just did that with my Les Paul. It played great, but I could not set the neck right. My tech fixed it. It actually needed new saddles to play absolutely right. But he did a super job, the guitar feels completely different. The very light fret buzz, than annoyed the hell out of me and that I could not remove, is completely gone. He did not need to crown or level the frets, he just worked his magic on the gutiar. So, if you can not fix it yourself, leave it to a pro.

 

It was less a question of fixing it than not knowing how it was "broke." Even if I had taken it to a tech, I wouldn't have known what to tell him. I would have ended up asking for low action because that's what I thought I liked. 

My nearest real tech is an hour-and-a-half drive from the house. The next nearest is shipping it to Jeff in Red Stick, lol. Until it involves sanding or filing, I just have to figure out. 

[hamerhead]

In 50-some years I never measured string height, but eventually figured out that the 'low-as-it-can-go' thing was a bit odd. Sure, you can put it down there. But if you can't play it, what's the point?

If it feels right, it is right. Jack that f***er up and dig in!

[Jakeboy]

I am a bit heavy handed on both rhythm and lead so I like my action a bit higher as well. 

[Brooks]

On 8/1/2024 at 6:48 PM, RobB said:

I think it has more to do with the fret crowning. Properly dressed frets (PLEKKED or not) give you more choices in setting action. Setting the saddles on a TOM to the fretboard radius is a good idea, as well.

 

My recently aquired 359 is my 1st PLEK, and I gotta say it is friggin' LUXURIOUS 

[RobB]

7 hours ago, Brooks said:

My recently aquired 359 is my 1st PLEK, and I gotta say it is friggin' LUXURIOUS 

There’s no going back. My last PLEK was my Dean ML. 24 jumbo frets of slinky bends, fast runs and rattle-free riffage. 

[Brooks]

I might plek my Warmoth neck on my partscaster, whats the going rate? Its got SS frets.

 

[Jimbilly]

 Most or all guitars/basses I've bought in the past few years, to flip or not, have been really badly setup: no wonder they weren't keepers!  

[RobB]

12 hours ago, Brooks said:

I might plek my Warmoth neck on my partscaster, whats the going rate? It’s got SS frets.

Depends on the shop. You’re probably looking at an average of $250 to $350. I don’t know if that includes a new nut, but you’ll probably want to have that done with the PLEK. 

Edited August 13, 2024 by RobB