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Kaman sold to Fender


alpep

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McCarty's name is on all the patents of the era because he was the chief executive of the company that owned the patent. A company owns all the rights to the intelectual property (as it is called now) but they need to put someones name on the line on the form. I'm sure the attorneys on this board can correct me if I'm wrong or add insight, but my feeling is that McCarty got a lot of credit for things done by other people, with the excepton of Seth Lover.

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I actually think that Jol and Fender are loving this. He's said publicly very nice things about Fender, Strats and Leo in particular ask people who attended a guru clinic like I did. He's been on a campaign to raise Hamer's quality AND prices, even to the point of saying that the Improv should be double the price when it came out. He's said publicly that he still loves the shredders like the Californian, but it wasn't the focus of the high end marketing direction for Hamer. He's also been in favor of an import line that provides good value and pumps up the bottom line, including Californians. If we see $20,000 limited edition Hamers it will be because Jol thinks they are worth it in comparison to what other guys charge.

The guys at Fender are gonna love him.

I love fiction, especially thrillers!

Sorry, but I can't see anyone paying $20,000 for a new Hamer, as good as they are. Hamer is a niche brand, with a pretty small market. Yes, WE love them but for whatever reason, they've never broken out in the marketplace so to go ask $20,000 for a Hamer "limited edition" is truly a stretch IMO.

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Here's more information and an interesting insight on what Fender was interested in with Kaman.

Music Trades Article

Also, a "cryptic" reference in the latest post from Dantzig

I'm feeling OK about this whole thing, maybe it will be for the best after all.

Sorry, but I can't see anyone paying $20,000 for a new Hamer, as good as they are. Hamer is a niche brand, with a pretty small market. Yes, WE love them but for whatever reason, they've never broken out in the marketplace so to go ask $20,000 for a Hamer "limited edition" is truly a stretch IMO.

Five years ago the idea of a $10,000 Hamer seemed impossible to many, but now they make and sell them regularly.

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Here's more information and an interesting insight on what Fender was interested in with Kaman.

Music Trades Article

............................

Five years ago the idea of a $10,000 Hamer seemed impossible to many, but now they make and sell them regularly.

"Kaman is also the industry leader in the accessories business, a market where Fender is only a minor player.” Discussing the relative positions of the combined company’s guitar offerings, he (Bill Mendello, chairman and CEO of Fender Musical Instrument Corp.) said 'Ovation is a unique guitar line that doesn’t really compete with anything else on the market, and the Takamine line really complements Fender’s acoustic guitar offerings, well priced between our Fender acoustic line and our U.S.-made Guild line.'”

Hmm...I think we'd all be more inclined to think Hamer is in the grand plan if he had made ANY mention of Hamer in there.

He said he doesn't want "to Fenderize it," but that could also mean it ain't worth the trouble.

"$10,000 Hamer"? Sold "regularly"?

I'm going to need a few examples of $10,000 Hamers, and your definition of "regularly."

Yea, the list price on an Improv is $10,000, but how many have they made since the first one several years ago? 50? 60? I've seen other insane list prices on other custom ordered pieces, but again I find it hard to believe that either $10,000 Hamer example is being churned out regularly. If you know better, then tell me how you know.

This is dancing dangerously close to the Gibson and Fender megabuck guitars (the Clapton ES, Clapton's Blackie, SRV's #1 -and now the Lenny - the list goes on and on), and unless Hamer's direction is changing, that isn't what the company is all about.

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I'll never pay USD 20,000 on a Hamer...

Unless the ghost of Jimi Hendrix played one, then I might have to consider... :rolleyes:

Honestly, what could Hamer possibly produce that would fetch that kind of cash? A checkerboard Nielsen Standard (or Vee w/Standard headstock) built to exacting specifications, maybe reissue Virtuosos, but that's about all I can think of. There are definitely some fanbois out there who would buy these, but in significant numbers? I have serious doubts about that.

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Guest Meshuggah

I might pay $10,000 for a Hello Kitty Hamer Custom. It would have to be the exact shade of nursery school eggshell blue and have specially tap tuned and listened to hand wound Seymour Duncans though to be worth that much jack.

kt-big.jpg

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maybe reissue Virtuosos, but that's about all I can think of.

Nah...no way.

Those are very much hyped up by their owners, most of them having payed well under $1,000 for theirs. They are OFFERED at outrageous prices, but I have yet to see a deal done at those levels. A real transaction would be at, what, maybe $2,000, if at all?

AND, "Reissues" tend to be cheaper than the market prices of the real stuff.

(Edytehd four zpellyin)

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There are definitely some fanbois out there who would buy these...

Is that pronounced fan(boys) or fan(boo-ah)? :rolleyes:

That would be "Fay-BWAH"...

:P

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maybe reissue Virtuosos, but that's about all I can think of.

Nah...no way.

Those are very much hyped up by their owners, most of them having payed well under $1,000 for theirs. They are OFFERED at outrageous prices, but I have yet to see a deal done at those levels. A real transaction would be at, what, maybe $2,000, if at all?

AND, "Reissues" tend to be cheaper than the market prices of the real stuff.

(Edytehd four zpellyin)

Nah, you're way off. I've seen them sell for more than twice that, and whenever one does come up for sale, prospective buyers need to take a number like they're at their neighborhood bakery.

Granted, that's still not $20,000...

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Jorge:

You've probably never seen them SELL for that because those deals are almost always done "off the table" and for amounts high enough to entice the seller into closing early. I know of a couple that sold for WAY more than the asking prices.

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I've seen them sell for more than twice that,

Well, you learn something new everyday. :rolleyes:

Care to show an Ebay, or HFC deal link?

Jorge:

You've probably never seen them SELL for that because those deals are almost always done "off the table" and for amounts high enough to entice the seller into closing early. I know of a couple that sold for WAY more than the asking prices.

Chris, I understand now. So, for example, someone offers his for, let's say, $3,000, and the buyer says, "No, I'll pay you $4,000, your price is too low"?

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Guest pirateflynn

The supply is so low that when one comes up for sale, either by advertisement or word of mouth, quiet offers are made. That being said, Toby's Virt didn't sell at a $6K price on ebay.

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I've seen them sell for more than twice that,

Well, you learn something new everyday. :P

Care to show an Ebay, or HFC deal link?

Jorge:

You've probably never seen them SELL for that because those deals are almost always done "off the table" and for amounts high enough to entice the seller into closing early. I know of a couple that sold for WAY more than the asking prices.

Chris, I understand now. So, for example, someone offers his for, let's say, $3,000, and the buyer says, "No, I'll pay you $4,000, your price is too low"?

I am pretty certain that no one would show an "HFC deal link". There are lots of deals that are done between members and the prices are usually kept under wraps pretty much. That being said, I'm aware of two Virt sales that involved well north of $3k each changing hands for the guitar.

I have absolutely no idea what your second point is. :rolleyes: If you are questioning whether someone would offer more than a present bid price on an auction-that happens all the time and I've done it myself. If there's a BIN, then it wouldn't make sense, but it happens all of the time with all manners of brands where someone wants something bad enough and doesn't want to get "scooped" at the last minute, won't be around for the end of the auction, etc. and wants to lock up the item before the auction runs its course. I bought a Tele neck that way earlier this year and paid a good bit less than the going rate, but $100 over the bid price at the time.

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That being said, I'm aware of two Virt sales that involved well north of $3k each changing hands for the guitar.

I have absolutely no idea what your second point is. :rolleyes:

If you say so, that's enough proof for me.

The second was not a "point", it was a question (marked as such :P ). I obviously understand a bidding process. I thought Chris was talking about offers off-Ebay, where I just found surprising that someone would offer more than a price at which the seller would be happy, on a non-auction process.

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The second was not a "point", it was a question (marked as such :rolleyes: ). I obviously understand a bidding process. I thought Chris was talking about offers off-Ebay, where I just found surprising that someone would offer more than a price at which the seller would be happy, on a non-auction process.

Gotcha. Ebayers (myself included sometimes) do some strange stuff!

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They will touch Hamer USA as they are ruining Jackson/Charvel. They have raised the prices by 30% plus on J/C guitars, made some options Master Built, meaning big $$$$$$$ upcharges(the are J/C guitars not Fender I am talking about) and have limited options now or made many options that were afordable, very expensive. Well, let`s just say, if they treat Hamer USA like J/C USA, they will fuk it way up. Not that Hamer makes anything now that floats my boat, but just watch the prices rise and rise on USA Hamers at least.

Jack

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One possibility: Fender licenses its products (along with the Jackson stuff) to be built by Warmoth. Bolt-neck Hamer-shredder kits from Warmoth would make for fun winter projects.... :rolleyes:

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That being said, I'm aware of two Virt sales that involved well north of $3k each changing hands for the guitar.

I have absolutely no idea what your second point is. :rolleyes:

If you say so, that's enough proof for me.

The second was not a "point", it was a question (marked as such :P ). I obviously understand a bidding process. I thought Chris was talking about offers off-Ebay, where I just found surprising that someone would offer more than a price at which the seller would be happy, on a non-auction process.

I was talking about BOTH, actually. I am aware of one "off-eBay" sale where the buyer paid more than a seller's original asking price because he wanted to make sure he got the deal. There had apparently been interest in the guitar, but nobody had pulled the trigger (over a 24-hour or less period). The ultimate buyer chimed in with a deal above asking price and the deal was sealed. If that person chooses to confirm here, that is entirely up to them, but this is not an uncommon thing - I've seen it happen many times over the last 20-25 years with vintage instruments (and DC Metro Real Estate!).

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