Is This Guy A Little Too Full Of Himself?

[elduave]

When I think of Carmine I think of Rod Stewart, and some insufferable "drum stomp" thing at the M3 Festival.

And why him and his bro pronounce their names differently.

[svl]

Ok, I remember Vanilla Fudge. But to equate Vanilla Fudge with Dream Theater in respect to the association that the musicians have to the music that they have done is not apples to apples. Portnoy had spent many more years and albums with DT than Appice with Fudge and he sang and wrote lyrics to many of their songs. Did Appice do that? I'm under the impression that he was more of a drummer than anything else. When I think of Carmine Appice I'm more inclined to think of the other work he did with people like Jeff Beck ect. If I recall correctly, that is where he really made a name for himself. I could be wrong, I smoked alot of weed back then.

Joe

I was a pretty big Vanilla Fudge fan, so I may equate Carmine with the group more than most. But in any event I agree it doesn't hold up to a direct comparison, just similar in certain aspects.

[Devnor]

Portnoy really makes the effort to connect with the fans...the guy seems tireless in keeping the fanbase up to date, putting together tours, ytsejam stuff, all the projection video and all the live DVDs. None of the drummers mentioned in this thread do that. None of the other members of DT do that unless it's related to an endorsing a product...otherwise they must be off in little rooms practicing. I'd venture to guess MP had a major role in them getting a deal. The dude has major passion for the biz as well as playing the drums.

He'll be missed.

[JohnnyB]

A bit melodramatic, but then from what I understand, he was the driving force of the band in all facets, so I'll cut him some slack.

-Austin

He has a lot to process mentally, and in a way leaving DT requires Portnoy re-defining himself. But he should have saved it for his therapist.

[SteveB]

I'll compare it to Slayer losing Lombardo. Bostaph was a great player, but something was missing in the chemistry, and a lot of Slayer fans picked up on it. Casual fans? Again, not enough to make a determination.

Portnoy is a damn good drummer, certainly on Lombardo's level but with a different style, so I think it's a good comparison.

Or when Herb "Disturbed" Alexander left Primus. To me Herb was a huge part of that bands sound.

[Steve Haynie]

Portnoy's letter is sort of like someone saying he had a good marriage for 25 years, but now that he has gone out with other women he feels like a new man.

Rod Morgenstein recorded an album with Jordan Rudess and has the Dregs/Steve Morse Band credentials. Maybe he can join Dream Theater.

[Siaip Ciuvas]

Without an excellent drummer, average joe radio listener will never hear your band, because your band will be shit.

If your drummer sucks, your band sucks. Period. No exceptions.

+10000000000000000000000

singer matters too. Bass player? Yes. Guitarists? Just posers (if they don't write songs, that is). Try to put Edge on "mute" in U2 and you'll understand.

[holLoWskull]

Portnoy really makes the effort to connect with the fans...the guy seems tireless in keeping the fanbase up to date, putting together tours, ytsejam stuff, all the projection video and all the live DVDs. None of the drummers mentioned in this thread do that. None of the other members of DT do that unless it's related to an endorsing a product...otherwise they must be off in little rooms practicing. I'd venture to guess MP had a major role in them getting a deal. The dude has major passion for the biz as well as playing the drums.

He'll be missed.

+1 the man did an awful lot for the Prog metal genre as well as being a driving force for DT all these years. As a former small-potatoes indie label Prog Metal recording artist myself, I thank Mike for giving that style of music a pulse during the Grunge years of the early/mid-90's.

Portnoy's letter is sort of like someone saying he had a good marriage for 25 years, but now that he has gone out with other women he feels like a new man. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Rod Morgenstein recorded an album with Jordan Rudess and has the Dregs/Steve Morse Band credentials. Maybe he can join Dream Theater.

-1 on Rod M. Great drummer, but I'm not sure he's the right guy for DT based on their current sound direction.

I think anybody who has been in Mike's shoes in a band (or a business or whatever) and has been the founder and/or person who pours their heart and soul into doing all the promtions and other behind the scences crap work to make the venture suceed would understand how he feels. To me his comments come accross more like someone who feels let down and dissapointed in the situation rather than someone who is overly arrogant.

[tommy p]

I'd rather listen to Phil Rudd.

[Devnor]

Mike seemed a whole lot more humble during the Eddie Trunk interview. His initial -ex leader-letter rubbed me the wrong way too but the interview cleared up lots of things. I figure he'll be back for the 2012-2013 album. My wish is for DT will take a chance & get a guy like Mike Mangini...really raise the bar for when MP makes his return.

[Hamer Bass Head]

Mike seemed a whole lot more humble during the Eddie Trunk interview. His initial -ex leader-letter rubbed me the wrong way too but the interview cleared up lots of things. I figure he'll be back for the 2012-2013 album. My wish is for DT will take a chance & get a guy like Mike Mangini...really raise the bar for when MP makes his return.

Bozzio or BUST!!!

[diablo175]

No offense to drummers, but for your average joe radio listener, next to the bass player the drummer is probably the most easily replaced band member without anyone being the wiser.

Without an excellent drummer, average joe radio listener will never hear your band, because your band will be shit.

If your drummer sucks, your band sucks. Period. No exceptions.

I think the point was more along the lines of you could get a capable drummer to fill in and Average Joe Radio listener wouldn't really notice. It's been said and I agree that MP is a huge part of DT and some mighty BIG shoes to fill. Prog rock/metal ain't easy music to play either- all those funky time signatures...7/8, 5/4, 5/16... and that's just in one song

Yeah, my wife and daughter's like DT...OK probably not in the same way I do, but they really liked A Change of Seasons and Scenes from a Memory a lot. In their case I'd say I'm not sure they'd notice a drummer change but they aren't your typical DT fan.

DT will get some awesome drummer and they'll continue on. I haven't been as much of a fanboy of theirs since Awake and Images and Words (even Falling into Infinity -my 1st CD of theirs- and Scenes)...they seem somewhat boring to me now. I just couldn't get into their latest stuff. Nevertheless I still have the utmost respect for all of them - great musicians all.

IMHO, (in a drummers sense Not team leader etc.) Dt losing Mike is not the same as Rush losing Peart. I can picture other drummers playing DT music but can't picture Rush w/o Peart.

+1 my wife is a HUGE DT fan and if there ever was a person with LESS musical inclination and aptitude...I'd be surprised!

[silentman]

Now that I've come out of my mourning for days, I feel I can comment on this. I was shocked beyond belief when I read his note. Mike IS the Dream Theater machine. He is not only involved in composing, but was the face of DT, set list maker, DVD director, producer, most fan interacting (though Jordan has been active a lot lately), and all around decision maker in the band for everything. The band not only has to find a drummer, but have to pick up the slack on all other things Portnoy did. Mike has ALWAYS been active between DT releases and touring with many side projects. Did he get burned out? I say yes. But, I can't believe the other guys couldn't have settled for a 6 months to a year break as they all have other projects going that would keep them busy while Mike recharges.

Dream Theater has set the bar high for prog metal. Their record company once forced them to try and follow the success of Pull Me Under with some radio friendly fare (See Falling Into Infinity) and it nearly caused Mike to leave at that point, though it would have been for a different reason. I will continue to support the band. The music will still be great, MP's lyrics are not so I won't miss that. I keep telling myself that Mike will be back someday. The band did lose it's original keyboard player early on and that is still a sore point for some. But every player in the band is insanely good. DT is all about chops, but their melodic stuff can't be beat.

[diablo175]

Did he get burned out? I say yes. But, I can't believe the other guys couldn't have settled for a 6 months to a year break as they all have other projects going that would keep them busy while Mike recharges.

Dream Theater has set the bar high for prog metal. Their record company once forced them to try and follow the success of Pull Me Under with some radio friendly fare (See Falling Into Infinity) and it nearly caused Mike to leave at that point, though it would have been for a different reason. I will continue to support the band. The music will still be great, MP's lyrics are not so I won't miss that. I keep telling myself that Mike will be back someday. The band did lose it's original keyboard player early on and that is still a sore point for some. But every player in the band is insanely good. DT is all about chops, but their melodic stuff can't be beat.

Hear, hear! +1 again. Burned out indeed! Initially you'd think it wouldn't kill them to ease off for 6- 12 months but then, DT lacks the big time revenue from mega commercial successes, which probably necessitates the non-stop cycle of touring and album recording. Arguably John Petrucci could afford to take 6 months off and do another G3 or solo album (both of which Portnoy provided drums) and lately, Jordan Rudess has been quite visible and active in side projects (Slash's album comes to mind).

[Russ]

I'm 45 years old (wow, actually 46 in a few weeks). I've been playing one instrument or another since I was 8, starting off in the brass section, dabbling with woodwinds, then discovered strings by around 12. My musical tastes are about as eclectic as one could get, and anyone riding in my car with me when my iPod is engaged will leave the vehicle having heard lilting harmonic vocals from Donny and Marie, complex rhythms from Rush, tasty slide work from Jerry Douglas, galloping bass lines from Iron Maiden, and some pretty kick-ass clarinet work and band leading from Benny Goodman...There's some Britney, Avril, Beyonce and Cher...There's some Cooder, Vai, and Vaughan...Both Elvises...Just about everything you could imagine gets at least a couple of megs...

...yet, to this date, I have not heard a single Dream Theater song.

[harry65]

I'm 45 years old (wow, actually 46 in a few weeks). I've been playing one instrument or another since I was 8, starting off in the brass section, dabbling with woodwinds, then discovered strings by around 12. My musical tastes are about as eclectic as one could get, and anyone riding in my car with me when my iPod is engaged will leave the vehicle having heard lilting harmonic vocals from Donny and Marie, complex rhythms from Rush, tasty slide work from Jerry Douglas, galloping bass lines from Iron Maiden, and some pretty kick-ass clarinet work and band leading from Benny Goodman...There's some Britney, Avril, Beyonce and Cher...There's some Cooder, Vai, and Vaughan...Both Elvises...Just about everything you could imagine gets at least a couple of megs...

...yet, to this date, I have not heard a single Dream Theater song.

not missing anything imo(ducks and takes cover)....................

[silentman]

...yet, to this date, I have not heard a single Dream Theater song.

And most people haven't. I listen to a lot of bands that 'no one' else has heard of that are awesome (all because of my DT exposure) - I'm sure you do too. As a Dream Theater fan since 92 when Pull me Under hit, I've never missed the band live. The band has slowly gained a bigger and bigger audience - all with practically zero airplay after 1993. I remember seeing the band at the Ritz in Boston and the place was practically empty. Now they pack in small theaters in the US (2 - 3000) people. In Europe they play massive festivals all the time. So the band has sustained itself, like has been mentioned with constant recording/touring. I saw them at a club show in Worcester, MA this past August and the place was a madhouse.

Yes the band is not for everyone. The band is over the top technically by design, but can also lay back and groove in the pocket and play melodic/pop stuff as well as anyone. That's what I love the most about them. Their diversity. Chops don't hurt either.

For some pop flavored DT check out these links: Sadly these first three never made an album. They were written when the band was forced to compromise themselves to a wider audience. This CD was supposed to be a double CD, but the record company refused to release all the tracks and some of the really good stuff was cut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfRzeO1JlP0...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aHAZPisnb4...feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0F1fszGK5pU...feature=related

More recent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIQU33kGTAs

Some of the best DT songs IMO are the ones where they go from heavy riffing to soft melodic parts to crazy unison playing and time changes. It's not for everyone, but nothing ever is.

[harry65]

i know this might sound crazy to you guys that know me and my playing style but i have never heard a guitarist in my life who left me as cold as petrucci , i'm a guy who worships al dimeola , vinnie moore, andy timmons, joe satch , guthrie govan, joscho stephan , stochelo rosenberg , yadda, yadda, yadda , but whenever i hear petrucci he sounds so sterile and worked out , it's like a metronome of amazingly technical licks with no soul or sense of wild abandon , i know alot of you may dig him and that's cool , just not my cup of tea , that's why we have chocolate and vanilla........................

[harry65]

[silentman]

I think JP is at his best when he's not playing a million note solo.

[atquinn]

i know this might sound crazy to you guys that know me and my playing style but i have never heard a guitarist in my life who left me as cold as petrucci , i'm a guy who worships al dimeola , vinnie moore, andy timmons, joe satch , guthrie govan, joscho stephan , stochelo rosenberg , yadda, yadda, yadda , but whenever i hear petrucci he sounds so sterile and worked out , it's like a metronome of amazingly technical licks with no soul or sense of wild abandon , i know alot of you may dig him and that's cool , just not my cup of tea , that's why we have chocolate and vanilla........................

I would have agreed with you if not for the Liquid Tension Experiment CD I have (the first one). The guy's a complete monster player, but he tends to mostly just remind me of other players I like more when I listen to him (primarily the 2 Steve's (Morse and Vai)), except for Liquid Tension Experiment. So that makes me think it's less about him and more about the context he's usually playing in. Anyway, given that DT is at the top of the prog heap and has been for a long time, it's surprising to me that there would be some sort of financial component to them wanting to not take a break. Especially given that, AFAIK, they could all keep themselves as busy as they wanted with side projects.

-Austin

[silentman]

What's even more mind boggling is that LTE album was written and recorded in like a week.

[cmatthes]

i know this might sound crazy to you guys that know me and my playing style but i have never heard a guitarist in my life who left me as cold as petrucci , i'm a guy who worships al dimeola , vinnie moore, andy timmons, joe satch , guthrie govan, joscho stephan , stochelo rosenberg , yadda, yadda, yadda , but whenever i hear petrucci he sounds so sterile and worked out , it's like a metronome of amazingly technical licks with no soul or sense of wild abandon , i know alot of you may dig him and that's cool , just not my cup of tea , that's why we have chocolate and vanilla........................

You're the first person I've heard mention Stochelo Rosenberg - EVER!

My mother saw him play in Poland a couple of years ago and gave me a couple of his CDs. She said that he was the most amazing guitarist she'd seen play live since Segovia. Pretty impressive stuff.

Back to the original topic though...

I bought a DT CD back in the early '90s after getting "Pull Me Under" on a label sampler CD. Although I have high regard for the amazing talent(s) in that band, the stuff doesn't move me. Not a knock, just a personal opinion. I also do like a lot of more complex instrumental stuff, from Greg Koch to DiMeola to Gilbert to Eric Johnson and Danny Gatton, but the DT lyrical stuff always seemed like it was written by a bunch of 8th grade D&D fanbois to me. Maybe I just lost interest and never pursued it further beyond that, I don't know. I feel the same way about Queensryche. They're incredible players and I really respect Portnoy's enthusiasm for his fans, but it just doesn't light my fire.

I did think it was really funny that JP started working out and did a huge makeover after a bunch of internet chat guys started comparing him to Seth Green a few years back!

[edgar_allan_poe]

She said that he was the most amazing guitarist she'd seen play live since Segovia. Pretty impressive stuff.

YIKES!! never heard of the guy. Looks like i need to check him out. Thanks for the heads up!

[cynic]

YIKES!! never heard of the guy. Looks like i need to check him out. Thanks for the heads up!

They must not play him on your radio