Vanguard 25th Anniversary - reasonable price?

[Montelovesco]

I am in contact with a seller, offering a Artist Vanguard 25th Anniversary, Champagne Silver, SD P90s. Condition seems good except for a scratch on the back.

I have no idea what a reasonable price would be and appreciate any help.

Thanx a lot.

[Thundernotes]

I bought the standard trans-red 25th Anniversary with humbuckers a few years back for 575, IIRC ( used.)

[belgian]

For Europe, I would say 750 - 1000 €..

[Montelovesco]

Thanks a lot, that helps...!

[Ting Ho Dung]

Why are these so much less expensive than typical artists? Isn't it the same guitar?

[Jack C]

Why are these so much less expensive than typical artists? Isn't it the same guitar?

These don't have the maple top.

[crunchee]

Why are these so much less expensive than typical artists? Isn't it the same guitar?

These don't have the maple top.

All mahogany = not as bright sounding as with a maple top.

No figured maple top = no maple top eye candy.

[serial]

The 25th Anniversary was it available in silver sparkle. Only made in cherry trans and a small number in black. The silver sparkle with P90s was the Vanguard. Both became the Artist Mahogany after a name change in 2000 when Hamer became aware of the model name being used formerly by Kramer (IIRC). 25th Ann's had covered humbuckers.

These are typically available between $600-900 and are incredibly good guitars. I've wanted a silver Vanguard a/P90s since they came out, but never lined up with one.

[Ting Ho Dung]

Thanks for the info. Guess I need to buy the book.

[django49]

I have had a Vanguard for a long time. Essentially mint. I guess I tend to play it little, as I have others with P90s that I reach for sooner. But the selling prices are so low, for what I consider a great guitar, that I am just not motivated to let it go. At some point, I might consider upgrading the pickups. Lollars, maybe?

IMO. great value at the typical price, at least in the US.

[JohnnyB]

I have had a Vanguard for a long time. Essentially mint. I guess I tend to play it little, as I have others with P90s that I reach for sooner. But the selling prices are so low, for what I consider a great guitar, that I am just not motivated to let it go. At some point, I might consider upgrading the pickups. Lollars, maybe?

This could have been material for another topic in the "Well it was fun, but it's over thread"--Hamer's habit of putting garden-variety stock pickups in exquisitely crafted guitars made from top notch woods. Hamers are so much better made than so many other guitars, but then they slapped $50 stock Duncan pickups in there, which essentially filter out a lot of the goodness. It's like recording Pavarotti with a Radio Shack microphone and I think it's one reason so many Anniversary's and other great guitars (Phantom Custom, Eclipse, Mirage II) so quickly made the rounds at deflated prices on the used market. Hamers should have always had specially-designed, handwound pickups. When they did that, the results--such as the Newport w/Phat Cats--were extraordinary. How many people out there (myself included, twice!) bought and sold the marvelously playable Eclipse because of the harshy clangy mini-buckers they stuffed in there? How many Specials because of those rough P90s? Ask Pesocaster about his PesoPro after he ditched the '59s for a set of Rios.

So anyway, I concur that if you want to turn your Vanguard into a total keeper, put in some pickups commensurate with the quality of the rest of the guitar. Lollars are an option, but so are Lindy Fralins and Rio Grande (fortunately they're still in business). Also, although I'm no big fan of the mass-produced Duncans, their Custom Shop and Antiquities pickups are competitive with anybody. I found that out when I got my Newport and played it against my Artist Stock Casino (previously owned by Chris Bellew of POTUSA) with after-market Fralin P90s. The Phat Cats in the Newport smoked it.

I also upgraded a Washburn thinline hollowbody with the Rio Grande Barpack with good results. They have other sets such as the Dawgpack if you want a rougher sound. Also, you may want to consider getting a good set of mini-buckers with P90 adapter rings. Mini's give you a lot of the P90 midrange while being noiseless.

If you want something sweet, noiseless, and refined, there's Bartolini. USA Bartolini is definitely the #1 choice for boutique bass makers. I'm not sure how popular they are for guitar.

At any rate, the Vanguard/Anniversary is an exquisitely designed and built guitar, far better than its resale price would indicate. Mine sounds great as it is, but I'm sure it could be stunning with better pickups to transfer more of the tone and dynamics of the wood and chamber.

[Montelovesco]

Thank you, JohnnyB, you gave me a lot to think about - not only because of the Vanguard but because of my Special with the stock P90 in it as well...

[Thundernotes]

I agree with JB. I put Fralins in mine

[JohnnyB]

I agree with JB. I put Fralins in mine

Can you describe what it did for your Anniversary?

[django49]

JohnnyB:

I really appreciate your feedback. The Rio set sounds like it might be a good choice. In the meantime, I sent a note off to Wolfetone to ask about their Mean and Meaner set. Sounds like more or less the same thing......Might as well support the Washington biz if possible. And a pair of his Dr. Vintage in the Triple Threat are one of, maybe the best, pickups I have ever heard.

I also have a stock Special. Had it as long as the Vanguard and like it a lot but it is also just a bit less than it could be. As long as I am spending bucks, I suppose I should convert that as well. Sounds like a better idea than just shrugging my shoulders and selling it for the going rate.

So there may well be TWO pairs of Duncan P90s hitting the sales bin in the future.

BTW, I put a set of Duncan Antiquity P-90s in an imported Epiphone archtop. Really turned it into a "rockabilly" machine! Sort of a poor man's mid-50s ES-175.

Thanks for the advice!

[Jakeboy]

What JB said. All my Hamers have had pickup upgrades that were truly that.

My recent Korina JR is great....a magnificent guitar, but the SD hot ceramic was too much buzz saw.....I had Aaron at Rumpelstiltskin Pickups wind me a 9k P90 with A2 mags and it now cleans up so much better while still retaining the classic p90 snarl that I love so much. I have Rumpels in all guitars that require single coils. Good prices and killer pickups. Check him out.

Similarly, my Artist Korina HB came with 59s. They were ok. Ii went through a set of PAFs from Vintage Vibe before I found the perfect set for me: a Vintage Vibe HS90A in the neck (think Strat neck on mega steroids) and a vintage Bill Lawrence l90 in the bridge.

Hamers indeed need special pickups as they are sooooooo well made.

[hamerican gigolo]

I have had a Vanguard for a long time. Essentially mint. I guess I tend to play it little, as I have others with P90s that I reach for sooner. But the selling prices are so low, for what I consider a great guitar, that I am just not motivated to let it go. At some point, I might consider upgrading the pickups. Lollars, maybe?

This could have been material for another topic in the "Well it was fun, but it's over thread"--Hamer's habit of putting garden-variety stock pickups in exquisitely crafted guitars made from top notch woods. Hamers are so much better made than so many other guitars, but then they slapped $50 stock Duncan pickups in there, which essentially filter out a lot of the goodness. It's like recording Pavarotti with a Radio Shack microphone and I think it's one reason so many Anniversary's and other great guitars (Phantom Custom, Eclipse, Mirage II) so quickly made the rounds at deflated prices on the used market. Hamers should have always had specially-designed, handwound pickups. When they did that, the results--such as the Newport w/Phat Cats--were extraordinary. How many people out there (myself included, twice!) bought and sold the marvelously playable Eclipse because of the harshy clangy mini-buckers they stuffed in there? How many Specials because of those rough P90s? Ask Pesocaster about his PesoPro after he ditched the '59s for a set of Rios.

So anyway, I concur that if you want to turn your Vanguard into a total keeper, put in some pickups commensurate with the quality of the rest of the guitar. Lollars are an option, but so are Lindy Fralins and Rio Grande (fortunately they're still in business). Also, although I'm no big fan of the mass-produced Duncans, their Custom Shop and Antiquities pickups are competitive with anybody. I found that out when I got my Newport and played it against my Artist Stock Casino (previously owned by Chris Bellew of POTUSA) with after-market Fralin P90s. The Phat Cats in the Newport smoked it.

I also upgraded a Washburn thinline hollowbody with the Rio Grande Barpack with good results. They have other sets such as the Dawgpack if you want a rougher sound. Also, you may want to consider getting a good set of mini-buckers with P90 adapter rings. Mini's give you a lot of the P90 midrange while being noiseless.

If you want something sweet, noiseless, and refined, there's Bartolini. USA Bartolini is definitely the #1 choice for boutique bass makers. I'm not sure how popular they are for guitar.

At any rate, the Vanguard/Anniversary is an exquisitely designed and built guitar, far better than its resale price would indicate. Mine sounds great as it is, but I'm sure it could be stunning with better pickups to transfer more of the tone and dynamics of the wood and chamber.

Amen!!! No truer words were ever said. I have swapped p.u.'s for all of my Hamers except my Newport with Seth's. The Eclipse with a set of SD Antiquities is an extraordinary aural experience to behold.

[Disturber]

JohnnyB:

I really appreciate your feedback. The Rio set sounds like it might be a good choice. In the meantime, I sent a note off to Wolfetone to ask about their Mean and Meaner set. Sounds like more or less the same thing......Might as well support the Washington biz if possible.

I put the Mean and Meaner Wolfetones in my silver sparkle Vanguard. They were VERY rich in the mids with the A2 mags he puts in them. To much for my taste. (I think they would sound more right in a maple topped guitar which is naturally brighter.)

BUT, I easily swapped the mags. Put A5's in the neck, and an A8 together with the stock A2 in the bridge. It made it a KILLER guitar for vintage P90 tones.

I am quite amazed in how this guitar has transformed from when I first played it with the stock pups, and then with the all A2 Wolfetones. WIth the mag swap I got it eq'ed just right on the spot. It can not produce a bad note, lolz

You can order a set with these mags directly from Wolf, or with A5's in both pups.

[django49]

The prior post gave me pause. Jeez, maybe I shoulda ordered it differently. So, the Mean and Meaner are here, are installed and I love them. I started having second thoughts, as the stock pups sounded good enough. But I still knew they were not all there. Love these new guys. They seem to fit the Vanguard very well, at least for my (blues and classic rock) bent. I am PROBABLY not going to change them......Not sure I could stand the "eargasm" if they were even better.

At this moment, the Wolfetones (Dr. V in a Triple Threat, Mean/Meaner in the Vanguard) are amongst the best guitar tones I can recall.

[JohnnyB]

The prior post gave me pause. Jeez, maybe I shoulda ordered it differently. So, the Mean and Meaner are here, are installed and I love them. I started having second thoughts, as the stock pups sounded good enough. But I still knew they were not all there. Love these new guys. They seem to fit the Vanguard very well, at least for my (blues and classic rock) bent. I am PROBABLY not going to change them......Not sure I could stand the "eargasm" if they were even better.

At this moment, the Wolfetones (Dr. V in a Triple Threat, Mean/Meaner in the Vanguard) are amongst the best guitar tones I can recall.

IME good pickups have a bit of a burn-in period too, so I expect these to sound better with a few more hours on them.