Any players here use Dumble style amps?

[Saul Goodman]

Would like player experience feedback on these amps.

[Cboss]

I would be curious as well, I've been thinking about building one..

[The Shark]

I have two Brown Note amps.  A guy named Moss Hudson built them a decade or so ago.  The D'Lite 22 head I have is a clone of an original Dumble Moss had his way with that was owned by a guy that owned a real non-HRM model.  It's identical to the original "D".  But it uses 6V6 tubes.  I also bought a 1x12 combo D'Lite 45 with the HRM mod and 6l6 tubes.  Basically, it's a "D" that has internal tone mini-pots to tweak the lead channel.  "HRM" stands for Hot Rubber Monkey.  If you really want to try a "D" amp, buy an Ethos pedal.  They are incredible.  And you will be in under a grand.  The Lovepedal/Hermida Zen Drive is also a great primer into the whole Dumble thing. 

 

 

[tbonesullivan]

If you want to go on the cheap, I have heard good things about "The Dude" by Rockett. It's a bit simpler in design, made mainly to get you the D-style overdrive sound. It's got the "ratio" control type of design. If I recall the Dumble is kind of a parallel architecture, with the overdrive channel built on top of the clean channel. Both that and the Zen drive are probably the easiest way to get you that type of overdrive sound, and the cheapest.

[DaveH]

Glaswerks makes some kick ass amps in the ODS realm.

Glaswerks

[tbonesullivan]

13 hours ago, DaveH said:

Glaswerks makes some kick ass amps in the ODS realm.

Glaswerks

There definitely seem to be more makers offering Dumble Type amps since his passing, or maybe I just didn't realize that they made them.

Two-Rock, Fuchs, and Amplified Nation come to mind. The last one of those is now being sold by Sweetwater, and Fuchs used to be, but for some reason they stopped.  In terms of control layout and appearance, Fuchs and Amplified Nation are closest to the "Modern" Dumble ODS, while the Two-Rock amps have a layout more like the early ones.

Ceriatone also has a bunch of offerings. I went through a phase of looking up Dumble stuff on youtube, mainly because like many, I didn't really have much experience with guitarists who were known for that type of sound. There are a lot of "Dumble Shootouts" out there.

[DaveH]

Glaswerks started out over 25 years ago as a hobby, but his work looked as pro as any name brand even then.

[BadgerDave]

I just sold my Two Rock Studio Pro 35.  It was a remarkably well built amplifier, but, in my opinion, it suffered from over-complication and a number of push-pull or switchable tone changing options that didn't really improve the basic sound of the amp.  I also felt it was slightly anemic until pushed to unreasonably loud levels and that it was fighting me rather than serving as an intuitive flexible tool.

It's certainly possible that I'm just not a good enough player to find the magic, but I'm much happier with my Victoria Tweed Deluxe and reissue Fender blackface Deluxe Reverb.

[MPR]

I have a Kingsley Juggler on my pedalboard, which is essentially a Dumble ODS preamp. (It's a true preamp, made to run straight into a power amp and then on to speakers, though its output is switchable if you want to tone it down and use it front-of-amp as an overdrive/tone-shaping pedal.) We're cab-less on stage at my church, so I'm using Two-Notes stuff for speaker sims, but it sounds ace and is super tweakable.

What you should know about the Dumble ODS circuit in general is that it's extremely revealing of every nuance in your playing. So, if you've got finesse, you'll be rewarded with glorious shades of all sorts of different harmonics and hear every detail in your articulation. And, if you flub a note, it's extremely unforgiving: everyone will hear your mistake with great clarity. The best discussion (with great playing examples) I can point you to is this episode of That Pedal Show with Simon Jarrett, which is what sold me on the Juggler.

[tbonesullivan]

10 hours ago, BadgerDave said:

I just sold my Two Rock Studio Pro 35.  It was a remarkably well built amplifier, but, in my opinion, it suffered from over-complication and a number of push-pull or switchable tone changing options that didn't really improve the basic sound of the amp.  I also felt it was slightly anemic until pushed to unreasonably loud levels and that it was fighting me rather than serving as an intuitive flexible tool.

It's certainly possible that I'm just not a good enough player to find the magic, but I'm much happier with my Victoria Tweed Deluxe and reissue Fender blackface Deluxe Reverb.

 As MPR said, it is a pretty unforgiving circuit, but it's also somewhat complicated to dial in. Lots of switches and push pull pots for voicing. This is the same reason why Mesa makes much more in terms of sales with their Rectifiers and entry level amps than their "Mark" series amps. They are much easier to dial in and the controls are also simpler. I have to admit that the controls on the ODS style amps are somewhat confusing and also intimidating.

[django49]

I have a Fuchs ODS and think it is a great amp. All the more with the "right" speaker cabinet to catch the tones. With a 2 x 12 (Celestion Alnico Cream over EVM-12L in a Forte-type cabinet) it is hard to beat, at least for my uses. The downside is that it is a load to tote about with that cabinet and those speakers. (I built a pair of 1 x 12s so I could do the same thing with a bit easier ability to move them).  So I tend to use a lighter workaround outside the house.....

For several years, I have used an original Ethos OD. Generally by running it into a good tube power amp. IMHO, the tone has never been bested by anyone I played out with. But sometimes I used an even simpler rig, the Ethos OD Amp version with built in 30 watt (solid state) amp. A mini rig of that, a single pedal (Strymon Flint) and a lightweight 1 x 12 cabinet and it stands up well to the typical gig......While being able to carry everything in easily.

Is it 100% of the equal of the Fuchs? Well, not exactly, but how many people you play for will hear the difference?

Add the HRM option (post gain EQ), and the same pedal can probably get you where you want to go in the M realm on the fly.

As mentioned above, the Ethos (like the Dumble, which I have never played personally😉) takes some tweaking. Def NOT a "turn it all up to 10 and wail" thing. Something that also frustrated many Mesa users. But once I got mine tweaked to my taste and matched to the amp, I could get damn near every tone I needed by simply using the 3 footswitches. Does a pretty good job of copping a tube tone.....YMMV

Now, that said, after years of teasing, there is a new and much enhanced version in the Ethos Clean Fusion Deluxe.....Essentially a Deluxe Reverb preamp in the clean channel, Dumble type in the drive channel, with tons of features. (I said more about it in a thread a month or two ago). And actually cheaper than the original IF you added all upgrade options to the original. I managed to snag one from the first batch and it is all (or more) than expected. But be forewarned, it has even more options for tweakability and not for someone with a short attention span. I am still fine tuning it......But I recommend it highly.....Not sure how long Robbie's waiting list is......

You might also consider the Effectrode Blackbird SR-71 preamp pedal from overseas.....Also not exactly cheap, but it does have 3 preamp TUBES for great classic tones. And with an added 2 button footswitch, three great tones on tap. Not as tweakable as the Ethos pedals, but a great one.

BTW, the original ODS, like the typical Dumble or earlier Mesa MKs, is a sort of "1 1/2 channel amp" with the famous drive overlaid on the "clean" tone. The Fuchs ODS II evolved into a real 2 channel amp, with much more gain on tap. Longer story, that.

And such as the Dude pedal are a good and less expensive way to add a D type tone to your rig.

 

[phoenix]

the Shin pedals. The Dumbloids. Authentic goop and Dymo labels

[duncans]

I've had both the Brown Note D'Lite and a Fuchs conversion from a Fender Bandmaster Reverb. As stated above they were both unforgiving of my playing style, the reason they are both gone. However, for some reason I still want one in the stable. 

[soli'd]

+1 for the Kingsley stuff, best drive pedals I've ever used. There are a lot of variations, and after going thru a few of them, I realized that they tend to just sound like different shades of me playing, so I settled on the Jester Custom that gives several levels of gain, a fantastic clean boost, and has a preamp mode to run direct to a power amp of needed. I'll never part with it, and haven't bought any other drives in some time (other than fuzz, of course).

Gary from Glaswerks recently mentioned he was hanging it up after a couple decades. I really wish I had ordered a SOD II from him a couple years ago when I was considering it. The only one on reverb is priced at $12.5K right now. 🤪

[Cboss]

7 hours ago, django49 said:

I have a Fuchs ODS and think it is a great amp. All the more with the "right" speaker cabinet to catch the tones. With a 2 x 12 (Celestion Alnico Cream over EVM-12L in a Forte-type cabinet) it is hard to beat, at least for my uses. The downside is that it is a load to tote about with that cabinet and those speakers. (I built a pair of 1 x 12s so I could do the same thing with a bit easier ability to move them).  So I tend to use a lighter workaround outside the house.....

For several years, I have used an original Ethos OD. Generally by running it into a good tube power amp. IMHO, the tone has never been bested by anyone I played out with. But sometimes I used an even simpler rig, the Ethos OD Amp version with built in 30 watt (solid state) amp. A mini rig of that, a single pedal (Strymon Flint) and a lightweight 1 x 12 cabinet and it stands up well to the typical gig......While being able to carry everything in easily.

Is it 100% of the equal of the Fuchs? Well, not exactly, but how many people you play for will hear the difference?

Add the HRM option (post gain EQ), and the same pedal can probably get you where you want to go in the M realm on the fly.

As mentioned above, the Ethos (like the Dumble, which I have never played personally😉) takes some tweaking. Def NOT a "turn it all up to 10 and wail" thing. Something that also frustrated many Mesa users. But once I got mine tweaked to my taste and matched to the amp, I could get damn near every tone I needed by simply using the 3 footswitches. Does a pretty good job of copping a tube tone.....YMMV

Now, that said, after years of teasing, there is a new and much enhanced version in the Ethos Clean Fusion Deluxe.....Essentially a Deluxe Reverb preamp in the clean channel, Dumble type in the drive channel, with tons of features. (I said more about it in a thread a month or two ago). And actually cheaper than the original IF you added all upgrade options to the original. I managed to snag one from the first batch and it is all (or more) than expected. But be forewarned, it has even more options for tweakability and not for someone with a short attention span. I am still fine tuning it......But I recommend it highly.....Not sure how long Robbie's waiting list is......

You might also consider the Effectrode Blackbird SR-71 preamp pedal from overseas.....Also not exactly cheap, but it does have 3 preamp TUBES for great classic tones. And with an added 2 button footswitch, three great tones on tap. Not as tweakable as the Ethos pedals, but a great one.

BTW, the original ODS, like the typical Dumble or earlier Mesa MKs, is a sort of "1 1/2 channel amp" with the famous drive overlaid on the "clean" tone. The Fuchs ODS II evolved into a real 2 channel amp, with much more gain on tap. Longer story, that.

And such as the Dude pedal are a good and less expensive way to add a D type tone to your rig.

 

How close was the 30 watt ethos to the preamp version going into a tube amp?

[django49]

1 hour ago, Cboss said:

How close was the 30 watt ethos to the preamp version going into a tube amp?

They say their 30 watt SS power amp is roughly equal to a Deluxe Reverb which I think is a bit over 20 watts. I tended to use the non power amp version of the Ethos into a Mesa Blue Angel, which is probably closer to a Super Reverb (45 watts) in power terms if both power tube options (6v6 and el84) are turned on. And I only had the Mesa volume at between 9 and 10 o'clock....Def not dimed.

That said, I had no problem keeping up with a live band and drummer using only the solid state version. Not that we were playing ear bleed levels, but it worked well for gigging.

BTW, they indicate a power amp version of the CFD should be available later this year. I am hoping for a stereo option.

[Cboss]

1 hour ago, django49 said:

They say their 30 watt SS power amp is roughly equal to a Deluxe Reverb which I think is a bit over 20 watts. I tended to use the non power amp version of the Ethos into a Mesa Blue Angel, which is probably closer to a Super Reverb (45 watts) in power terms if both power tube options (6v6 and el84) are turned on. And I only had the Mesa volume at between 9 and 10 o'clock....Def not dimed.

That said, I had no problem keeping up with a live band and drummer using only the solid state version. Not that we were playing ear bleed levels, but it worked well for gigging.

BTW, they indicate a power amp version of the CFD should be available later this year. I am hoping for a stereo option.

I guess I meant sound quality, playing dynamics, all the goodness..how would you say that compares between these two versions?

Power amp is on their price list at $235, here is stereo layout

[django49]

Using the preamp version into a combo amp, with the GAC selected, was my preferred choice. IN good part because it gave me FOUR footswitchable tones. Using the amp version, with the speaker sim out, seemed to me to be a good emulation either into a PA system or a separate speaker cabinet. As always, YMMV. But I thought it was great for live work. One limitation is that the base tone (preamp device bypassed) is weak.

I think the outline above works good for a stereo application.  The downside is you need to power two mono amps, meaning two power supply/adapters. Which takes up more space on a board and complicates things a little. You can reduce the footprint a bit by stacking the amp PEDAL on top of the (same size) power amp. It would be cleaner (and less costly) to get two amps in a single enclosure. Remains to be seem if there will be enough demand for a stereo production model.

I like the IDEA of some board mountable power amps like the Milkman or new Duncan Power Stage. But, aside from cost, they have a built in PREAMP and I found that to conflict with the Ethos......A preamp into a preamp creates all sorts of issues.

I have built some lightweight and fairly portable stereo cabs that would work well with it.

FWIW, I understand it took so long for the new and improved version to be released is that Robbie had to be satisfied that he had achieved a "more tube-like tone". I like it. YMMV, but I would def go for the new CFD version.

I have a local friend who could not wait after hearing mine. He went out and bought a USED original Ethos OD (without even the upgrade options) for more than he could have purchased a brand new tricked out version of the old pedal....Or waited and lined up on the queue for the new one. But, hey, it is his money......

[Cboss]

Thank you so much for the thoughts and info, I'm grateful as I didn't know about this before this thread, and it seems a lot better option than building an amp. I'm not terribly turned on by any of the available dumble style amps as there seems to be a lot of shortcuts, pcbs Etc

Definitely will be reading up on this new model, although right off the top of my head I like the idea of a dumble clean and a double Overdrive, the original setup, rather than what I understand to be a fender clean combined with a dumble overdrive? Correct me if I'm wrong.. thank you again!

[JGale]

There are kits to be had. I have this one waiting in the wings. 
https://londonpower.com/electronics/mini-marshmallow-dumble-preamp/

[django49]

44 minutes ago, Cboss said:

Thank you so much for the thoughts and info, I'm grateful as I didn't know about this before this thread, and it seems a lot better option than building an amp. I'm not terribly turned on by any of the available dumble style amps as there seems to be a lot of shortcuts, pcbs Etc

Definitely will be reading up on this new model, although right off the top of my head I like the idea of a dumble clean and a double Overdrive, the original setup, rather than what I understand to be a fender clean combined with a dumble overdrive? Correct me if I'm wrong.. thank you again!

I do not think you can go wrong with the original. The newer one has more range and the clean channel can be combined with the HRM section. With both a gain and master on the clean channel, so you can get way more than just "clean" if you want it. The original essentially stacked the OD on top of the clean sound, so the new one is a more clearly 2 channel device rather than "1 1/2". WAY more versatile, if more demanding to dial in.

I would go to Custom Tones and see the linked demos to see the range of options. If you check it our in Facebook, you should be able to find even more wide ranging demos.

I should  probably sell my Fuchs ODS II.....May be one of the best and most versatile amps ever, but way more than I need.

PS....The Custom Tones TWE is also something for consideration for some folks tastes. But def NOT the D type. Essentially a Trainwreck in a box. And NOT expensive either.

Right now, I have the CFD, older "Clean" preamp and TWE on a board, along with their power amp. VERY versatile.

[Cboss]

1 hour ago, JGale said:

There are kits to be had. I have this one waiting in the wings. 
https://londonpower.com/electronics/mini-marshmallow-dumble-preamp/

Please report on sounds when you get it done  

[tbonesullivan]

Jeeez, those Ethos pedals look great, but damn so many buttons, switches, and knobs on them. Brain overload almost. Right now I'm trying to figure out what the purpose of the GAC and HRM are. It looks like the channels on the pedal are definitely more independent than they are on the OG ODS stuff, which had shared EQs and such. It's pretty amazing what they were able to do without tubes, and retain the very subtle "tweakability" of the Dumble type design.

I will say though, that I have some preamp pedals, mainly the two that Carvin makes, and they are definitely a great way to get a sound you are looking for without having to get the whole dang amp. I run them sometimes into a CAB M+, and it's pretty much like having an amp, without using an amp. They are definitely not nearly as SUBTLE as an ODS type design, but they seem well designed.

[django49]

On 3/4/2024 at 6:28 PM, tbonesullivan said:

Jeeez, those Ethos pedals look great, but damn so many buttons, switches, and knobs on them. Brain overload almost. Right now I'm trying to figure out what the purpose of the GAC and HRM are. It looks like the channels on the pedal are definitely more independent than they are on the OG ODS stuff, which had shared EQs and such. It's pretty amazing what they were able to do without tubes, and retain the very subtle "tweakability" of the Dumble type design.

I will say though, that I have some preamp pedals, mainly the two that Carvin makes, and they are definitely a great way to get a sound you are looking for without having to get the whole dang amp. I run them sometimes into a CAB M+, and it's pretty much like having an amp, without using an amp. They are definitely not nearly as SUBTLE as an ODS type design, but they seem well designed.

Def learning (and experimenting) curve there! GAC stands for guitar amp compensation......Compensates for a typical combo amp's natural EQ profile (think Fender) to make the platform be a bit more neutral before tone shaping with the pedal. (Bypass it if going direct).  HRM is variously Hot Rubber Monkey or Her Royal Majesty. Think Brit. It is a post-gain EQ (with added boost on the CFD). Can be used for anything from subtle tweaking to shifting to a more Marshall-ish tone. Note that on the CFD it can be used on either channel or both......So many tones at the touch of a footswitch (once you sort thru how they all work together.

I used the original for years as it allowed me, in front of a combo amp, to go from clean arpeggios to bluesy to "Santana" to "Gary Moore".....Nothing but ONE pedal and ONE small amp. The new one does all that and more.

Jeez....I sound like I should be on their payroll......😉

[RobB]

For what they charge, the acronym should read, GPC (guitar penile compensation).