Wanted: Cheap Non-blurry camera **UPDATE**

[hamerhead]

My wife - the little scamp - can't take a clear picture to save her a$$. Being the primary photographer at gigs (the only wife that shows up regularly), this creates a small problem - we need something to put on our website.

Exhibit A:

Exhibit B:

That was last night. Good crowd, fun gig - nothing for the website. Since about 80% of what she shoots look just like these, we need HELP!!

Are there any point-and-click, absolute no-brainer, small, throw-it-in-your-purse cameras out there that'll get us an occasional useable photo? I really hate missing these.

[cmatthes]

I think it's called an iPhone.

[paults]

It isn't her - no one could hold a camera steady through a hearbeat or two.

Those pictures look like that because they were taken without a flash, in a low light situation. The camera is automatically compensating, by leaving the shutter open for a long time. Click............thud.

If you want to be able to see the colors of the stage lighting, and the "ambience" of the crowd shots, it will take a tripod to steady a point and shoot camera.

Concert photographers use large fast lenses, are shooting a subject bathed in light, and more often than you think take "staged" pictures, to get it right.

[cmatthes]

Indoor concert shots have always been very tough with "mere mortal grade" equipment. Cameras HAVE gotten better in the last few years - by leaps and bounds, actually - but as Paults mentioned, there still has to be a fast shutter or flash to eliminate the blur.

I mentioned the iPhone only because in all seriousness, I took shots at a concert recently with one of my Nikons. Mine came out awful compared to the sharp, clear, "show what my eyes saw" shots my son's iPhone took.

Good thing digital is so forgiving - I would have burned through many thousands of $$ over the last few years in 35mm processing.

[zenmindbeginner]

Shooting darkly lit concerts is one of the most difficult tasks professional photographers face... beginners will have an even more difficult time.

Like Paults said... the shutter speed the camera's automatic settings chose was too slow. I shot in automatic mode for like one or two jobs before I switched over to manual settings. Automatic settings force the camera to choose the best shutter speed, aperture and ISO (film speed).

Flashes are cool, but don't travel as far as most people think they will... Paults mentioned "fast lenses" which are lenses that open up to a larger aperture opening, letting in more light which effectively allows you to raise your shutter speed and or ISO. "Fast lenses" are VERY expensive.

One "fast lens" that isn't expensive is the 50mm prime f/1.8 lens. This lens has been called the "plastic fantastic" and the "nifty fifty" for very good reasons. It opens up to a whopping 1.8 aperture (F Stop) and it's auto focus is more or less pretty good.

You'll need a DSLR + kit lens, a decent flash and a "fast lens" like the 50mm f/1.8 for low light and portraits.

A lower aperture also means a shorter depth of field and vice versa for a higher aperture setting. Why F stop numbers get smaller as the aperture openings increase in size is beyond me.

The downside to any "prime" lens is that you have to use your feet for a zoom. "Fast" zoom lenses are very expensive BTW, most people (like me) can only afford a fast prime lens. I get the same bokeh with my $150 nifty fifty that someone with an ultra expensive $2000+ 300mm lens can... I just have to stand somewhat close to the subject and make sure that they are a little further away from the background, but the quality is quite similar.

Bokeh is when the out of focus background degenerates into circular balls of color. Lower F Stop settings (larger aperture) allow for more bokeh in the background by shortening the depth of field. Higher F Stop settings (smaller aperture) allow more of the subject and background to be in focus all at once, which is expanding teh depth of field.

The Canon 3ti can do AMAZING photos... the newer 4ti has autofocus video (VERY cool), more focus points and better quality at higher ISO settings. I have a Canon 60D which is better than the 3ti but is going to be replaced sometime in the next year or so. Canon 3ti bodies can be had for very cheap on the used market.

Good luck.

[JohnnyB]

Yep, no way "cheap" will fit into this equation. Even a 1.8 lens without flash isn't going to capture action in a dimly lit club, but it's certainly a step in the right direction. Built-in flashes on point'n'shoot cameras have a range of about 12 feet, 15 tops. An external flash gun might have a range more like 30 feet and sometimes 40, but they also add cost and you can't hook one up to a point'n'shoot.

To use a point'n'shoot at a gig, she needs to get within 15 feet of the band and use the flash. The results won't be particularly artistic, but you'll be able to see and recognize everybody.

Most point'n'shoots come with a zoom lens with f.3.8-5.6 aperture. By serious photography standards, this is s-l-o-o-o-o-w. The f1.8 50mm that ZMB mentioned lets in nearly four times the light as the zoom at its fastest aperture and eight times the light as its 5.6 aperture. I have a Sony Alpha series DSLR, which is backward compatible with Minolta Maxxum 35mm SLR lenses. I picked up a totally compatible Minolta AF 50mm f1.8 in like new condition for $79, and a shoe-compatible (but non-automatic) flash gun with about a 50' range for next to nothing at a pawn shop.

What you're wanting to do will cost at least $600 and that's if you know where/how to shop. Just an entry level automatic flash gun for a DSLR is $200, and a 50mm f1.8 will be $80-100 if you find a backward compatible used one. Otherwise it's $150 and up. All that's besides the body you attach the lens and flash to.

[Toadroller]

My Olympus XZ 1 does an amazing job for a mid quality all in one F1.8 package. Indoor, night-time shots in 60 watt incandescent lights without flash.

$350 - $400

http://amzn.com/B004HO59LK

But no, you can't get around physics. Tripods and light and a steady subject (not a soloing guitarist) really help.

[Lockbody]

I've got the f1.8 that ZMB mentioned, and you can really get some great pics in low light with it. I generally leave it wide open, then use the shutter priority setting to get the level of light I want, or to stop the action sufficiently.

Here's one of a friend's band I took the f1.8 and my d5000, and it pretty much looked just like that in the club. You can see drummer's stick and the soloing guitarist's fingers fairly well.

Here's the same club with another band, but this time I bounced the flash off of the ceiling to keep some of the club's ambiance, but to capture the band a bit better.

One thing you might try with your camera is to put an index card in front of your flash at a 45 degree angle and see if you can bounce it off the ceiling to get a good shot.

Check your local CL for used DSLR's such as the Nikon d3000/3100. One of those and a f1.8 lens, and you've got an excellent low-light setup for not much more money the the Olympus mentioned above. That, and the Nikon 18-200mm lens is all the camera most people will ever need.

[zenmindbeginner]

I've got the f1.8 that ZMB mentioned, and you can really get some great pics in low light with it. I generally leave it wide open, then use the shutter priority setting to get the level of light I want, or to stop the action sufficiently.

Here's one of a friend's band I took the f1.8 and my d5000, and it pretty much looked just like that in the club. You can see drummer's stick and the soloing guitarist's fingers fairly well.

Here's the same club with another band, but this time I bounced the flash off of the ceiling to keep some of the club's ambiance, but to capture the band a bit better.

Great pics Bob. With some post processing, those pics could look SUPER! But of course, I have a hard time stepping away from the image editor and am known for mangling the life out of a photo. lol!

One thing you might try with your camera is to put an index card in front of your flash at a 45 degree angle and see if you can bounce it off the ceiling to get a good shot.

Or, you can get Professor Kobe's Lightscoop. I use it ALL of the time and bump my camera's flash compensation to +2 or +3. I get the same results that the dedicated flash guys do on small rooms... medium size rooms maybe almost as good... large rooms, fuggetaboutit.

INDISPENSABLE for gear shots and really anything indoors or where there is a ceiling IMHO.

[Lockbody]

Great pics Bob. With some post processing, those pics could look SUPER! But of course, I have a hard time stepping away from the image editor and am known for mangling the life out of a photo. lol!

Thanks! Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then.

[hamerhead]

That has got to be the world's largest tambourine.

[JohnnyB]

That has got to be the world's largest tambourine.

... if it was sitting on the bass drum.

[onguitar]

+1 on the Olympus xz-1 given the limitations you specify. It is well known as a good low light point and shoot. You'll still get plenty of blurring though. Tell your wife it is best to get very close to the stage and maybe only shoot one or two people filling in the frame (limiting extraneous background lights), and wait until the subject is spotlit/blasted with stage lighting before taking the photo. Resist the urge to dance.

The xz-2 is rumored to arrive this year so the price on the xz-1 might drop soon. A more modern (and complex) compact camera which would be better is the Sony dsc-rx100. Close to twice the price though.

[seeker]

The Canon 3ti can do AMAZING photos... the newer 4ti has autofocus video (VERY cool), more focus points and better quality at higher ISO settings. I have a Canon 60D which is better than the 3ti but is going to be replaced sometime in the next year or so. Canon 3ti bodies can be had for very cheap on the used market.

Good luck.

You do or do not like the 60D? Have been looking at it for a bit to upgun from point-n-clickers, getting back to my SLR dayz (and HDR has me very intrigued; need to bracket shots).

[serial]

Shortly before film went the way of the dinosaur, I reluctantly put away my Nikon 6006 and picked up a seemingly endless string of p&s digitals-none which really ever satisfied me other than for outdoor or moderate action shots.

I recently picked up a D5100 and am learning what all it can do, but I'm a bit clueless with this stuff for the most part.

Which f1.8 would any of you recommend for my Nikon to get those lower light bar gig type shots?

Tanx!

To Hamerhead-ditch the Auto setting!

[JohnnyB]

Shortly before film went the way of the dinosaur, I reluctantly put away my Nikon 6006 and picked up a seemingly endless string of p&s digitals-none which really ever satisfied me other than for outdoor or moderate action shots.

I recently picked up a D5100 and am learning what all it can do, but I'm a bit clueless with this stuff for the most part.

Which f1.8 would any of you recommend for my Nikon to get those lower light bar gig type shots?

This. This is the most speed for the least money. Currently it's $125. 50mm on your Nikon is equivalent to 85mm on your old 35mm camera. So it's a short telephoto which would be handy for shooting shows. It also makes for an excellent portrait lens. It's a flattering focal length and when you open it wide it turns any background into a soft moosh of color.

Others are available. The f1.4s are three times as expensive and twice as fast.

[Lockbody]

Shortly before film went the way of the dinosaur, I reluctantly put away my Nikon 6006 and picked up a seemingly endless string of p&s digitals-none which really ever satisfied me other than for outdoor or moderate action shots.

I recently picked up a D5100 and am learning what all it can do, but I'm a bit clueless with this stuff for the most part.

Which f1.8 would any of you recommend for my Nikon to get those lower light bar gig type shots?

This. This is the most speed for the least money. Currently it's $125. 50mm on your Nikon is equivalent to 85mm on your old 35mm camera. So it's a short telephoto which would be handy for shooting shows. It also makes for an excellent portrait lens. It's a flattering focal length and when you open it wide it turns any background into a soft moosh of color.

Others are available. The f1.4s are three times as expensive and twice as fast.

That lens won't autofocus on the d5100. He needs the AF-S f1.8 G

http://kenrockwell.com/nikon/50mm-f18-g.htm

[hamerhead]

DAMMIT YOU GUYS!

I said 'cheap', and 'point and click'. There's a blonde Norwegian female involved here. It can't have more than 2 buttons - on and shoot. Hopefully it has auto-off. Anything else will forever remain a foreign language.

I'LL TAKE ANYTHING!!!

...you can almost taste the desperation, can't ya?.......

[specialk]

I do like my Canon SD870/IS. It's a point & shoot, but not necessarily cheap and I don't know if it'll do what you want. But it is a point & shoot and I like it.

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-PowerShot-SD870IS-Digital-Stabilized/dp/B000V20S3G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1345240589&sr=8-1&keywords=Canon+SD870%2FIS

The used ones could be a deal. I paid $300 new a few years ago.

[JohnnyB]

DAMMIT YOU GUYS!

I said 'cheap', and 'point and click'. There's a blonde Norwegian female involved here. It can't have more than 2 buttons - on and shoot. Hopefully it has auto-off. Anything else will forever remain a foreign language.

I'LL TAKE ANYTHING!!!

...you can almost taste the desperation, can't ya?.......

The f1.8 lens for a Nikon D5100 was a response to Serial's request. As for you:

A Scandinavian blonde? I say be grateful for what you have and hire a photographer.

To your point, I think someone mentioned the Olympus XZ-1 before. $360 is about as cheap as you're going to be able to go. Fast glass costs money.

It also has the advantage of a flash shoe, so you can get a flash powerful enough to light up the stage if necessary.

Cheap, simple, and fast? Pick any two.

[JohnnyB]

That lens won't autofocus on the d5100. He needs the AF-S f1.8 G

http://kenrockwell.c.../50mm-f18-g.htm

Oops. Sorry. I wasn't aware of the distinction between AF and AF S. No wonder it was so inexpensive. Here's the recommended lens (I think) in an Amazon listing.

[cynic]

To your point, I think someone mentioned the Olympus XZ-1 before. $360 is about as cheap as you're going to be able to go. Fast glass costs money.

Unless you can make it to Amazon in the next two hours, or before it sells out. The black model is going for $279.

[specialk]

I don't know if this fits the bill, but it sounds like it would work well for your situation. The Nikon Coolpix P310 point and shoot:

http://www.macworld.com/article/1168231/coolpix_p310_a_premium_compact_camera_at_a_bargain_price.html

[JohnnyB]

I don't know if this fits the bill, but it sounds like it would work well for your situation. The Nikon Coolpix P310 point and shoot:

http://www.macworld....gain_price.html

Yep, there's your answer, available at Amazon for $269.88.

Hamerhead, it looks like you uncovered an emerging genre of point-n-shoot cameras.

[hamerhead]

I KNEW you guys would find one. It appears to be everything I'm looking for, and I just ordered it. Small, good in low light and even has a memory setting so if you find something that works, you can save it. Sweet! If anyone can test a camera, it's her. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks for all the help guys. It's truly appreciated.

[specialk]

Cool! I'll be interested in your review, cuz it looks tempting for the price. And Amazon has a nice 30 day return policy.

BTW, Amazon is announcing their new Kindles Sept. 6th and I'm in the market for a front-lit one if they offer it. If they don't, this camera would be a nice consolation prize.