Vintage 30 = shrill with no ass?

[carfish7]

I was recently gifted a Marshall JTM 60 combo amp that my buddy has owned forever. I always used to love plugging into it when we jammed/rehearsed at his place, and he finally just up and gave me the damn thing since he has other FAR nicer rigs. I always thought it got "that sound" pretty easily and it had a surprisingly good clean tone to boot. I was stoked to say the least....

'

When I got it, it had no speaker as he had to use it for his gigging amp (Orange something) when he popped that rig's speaker, so I tossed in a Vintage 30 I had in my pile 'o gear. Now it sounds fizzy, harsh, grating, and has no appreciable bottom end. Is this sounding like the usual Vintage 30 MO or might there be something else in play? I had this same speaker in a Trace Elliot Speed Twin combo and it sounded pretty good but not great (but then I have only ever tried that particular speaker in this combo before it let the smoke out).

What might be a good alternative for an el34 - based Marshall? Greenback? Something from Warehouse? Anybody got a good candidate around I could get for cheap? What is your experience with the UK Vintage 30 in a combo format?

[ZR]

V30's are my favorites. I don't notice those sounds but it depends on the rig. I play through a Zinky Mofo Custom Encore and use a V30 and a GT-75. Eminence has a full line that might work out although I can't recommend a specific one.

[Hackubus]

I haven't had any experience with a V30 in a closed back cab yet, but I've had two combo amps with V30s. Hated it.

Replaced one V30 with a Hellatone 30 in my Rivera Quiana combo, it worked well with the remaining V30, but I think I just have a problem with open back combos.

Edit: Shrill with no ass sums up my experiences with V30s in combo amps as well.

Edit2: I r furgetfull

[Steve Haynie]

Shrill? Yeah, maybe. Some Vintage 30's were in a couple of cabinets that passed through my hands, and sometimes they could sound harsh. It has to do with what the amp was designed to be matched with.

[MCChris]

Shrill? Yeah, maybe. Some Vintage 30's were in a couple of cabinets that passed through my hands, and sometimes they could sound harsh. It has to do with what the amp was designed to be matched with.

This. I've found V30s to be overkill with amps that have a good amount of midrange already.

That said, I've also found them to be at their best at band volume in a band context.

[SteveB]

I've never liked V30's. They make every amp sound like V30's. Ok in a gang of 8 though.

Prefer CL80 or Mesa C90.

[RCM78]

I haven't had any experience with a V30 in a closed back cab yet, but I've had two combo amps with V30s. Hated it.

Replaced one V30 with a Hellatone 60 in my Rivera Quiana combo, it worked well with the remaining V30, but I think I just have a problem with open back combos.

Edit: Shrill with no ass sums up my experiences with V30s in combo amps as well.

The Hellatone 60 is a rebadged Vintage 30... You put the same speaker back in your amp and thought it sounded better...

[RCM78]

There are at least three different versions of V30's out there. The Marshall version, The Mesa version, and the Celestion version. All are produced by celestion with some tweeks per each manufacturer...

I've been using them for quite a while with a Bogner Ecstasy Classic. I have three cabs that I have used the Celestion versions in.

• Mesa Halfback 4X12
• Avatar Vintage 2X12
• Carvin Legacy 2X12 open/closed back

The Mesa 4X12 sounds so great!!! It's just to heavy so it's relegated to reheasal use.

The Avatar is a warm cab. Big box, wide dispersment. great for live use.

Legacy cab is small and is a bit beamy as a closed back cab. Remove the back and it sounds much bigger but the low end can get a bit mushy.

The Bogner is a low mid voiced amp and the upper mid voice of the V30 compliments it well. It does excell in a band mix though. I much prefer the sound of my rig with a pair of Scumback M75's when playing alone...

[Hackubus]

The Hellatone 60 is a rebadged Vintage 30... You put the same speaker back in your amp and thought it sounded better...

Well shit. That was dumb, weren't it?

Wait! Closer inspection reveals it was a Hellatone THIRTY. Oops.

[JES1680]

Those JTM amps orginally came with Marshall branded Celestion Heritage speakers that were very scooped in the mids. I'm not sure what standard Celestion model if any they would equate to. I had one laying around for years until I threw it in an amp I traded recently. Shoot wish I'd known, I'd have sent it to you.

[carfish7]

Those JTM amps orginally came with Marshall branded Celestion Heritage speakers that were very scooped in the mids. I'm not sure what standard Celestion model if any they would equate to. I had one laying around for years until I threw it in an amp I traded recently. Shoot wish I'd known, I'd have sent it to you.

Sent it to me? I coulda just hopped on 694 and rolled right over!

(I'm in Shoreview)

Hey, that is good info to know - I can look for one of those Heritage units and hopefully get it back sounding like it did before, which to my ears was pretty OK!

Thanks for the info.

[dragan]

I like the celestion g12h30s or eminence man o war both have a smooth upper mid & a good chunk on the bottom . I think the celestions are a bit brighter( but its all relative to amp, cab, guitar & even volume )

[carfish7]

Just had an idea - I have a Mesa Heartbreaker with 2 MC90's and it is too dark sounding. I wonder if I swap one of them out for the V30 and put the Mesa speaker in the Marshall if I will be happy all around?

Sounds like a good project for this rainy, chilly MN day......

[bubs_42]

V30 Harsh, then I have the speaker for you. PM'ed.

[MCChris]

Just had an idea - I have a Mesa Heartbreaker with 2 MC90's and it is too dark sounding. I wonder if I swap one of them out for the V30 and put the Mesa speaker in the Marshall if I will be happy all around?

Sounds like a good project for this rainy, chilly MN day......

Certainly worth a shot!

[ZR]

I use a Celestion v30 and a GT75T (or whatever it's called) in the same Zinky closed cab. I like it! YMMV, especially with an open cab. Try the speaker switch, def worth a try. Good Luck!

[django49]

Many factors go into it. I picked up a Mesa Blue Angel 1 x 12 with an MC90 and IT sounded shrill to me. Changed it out for a V30 I had sitting around. I like it a lot better now. Then I put the MC90 into a larger 1 x 12 cab and IT sounded better than in the small Mesa cab. Go figger!

FWIW, I have a pair of older Pacific Woodworks 2 x 12s. They are a slightly smaller version of the "halfbacks" Mesa used to make.......An EV12L in the bottom (Thiele enclosure) and a V30 up top, with an open back (and removable closed back). The combination of the uncolored (deep strong) sound from the EVs with the sooner to breakup Celestions is a very good combination IMO. And two of them in stereo is even better. I have not experimented with replacing the V30s, but feel no need to do so.

Lately I have heard goods things re some of the Mojotones.......The BV25M is supposed to be like an early 70s Greenback, and the BV30H like the G12H. Those might be a good alternative to the higher priced Celestions. The Mojos are used as "stock" speakers in Swart amps, which I consider a pretty good endorsement.

[dragan]

only way to tell is load one up & listen, too much high end can be controlled w EQ much easilier than" no ass " . The later to my way of thinkin would indicate a larger cab or more efficient speaker .

[carfish7]

I have discovered this amp sounds MUCH better with the overall master set high. Not a great-sounding "bedroom level" amp to be sure. Fizz city.

[dragan]

more volume is always better! well to a point !

[Disturber]

I like the celestion g12h30s or eminence man o war both have a smooth upper mid & a good chunk on the bottom . I think the celestions are a bit brighter( but its all relative to amp, cab, guitar & even volume )

In my opinion the best Celestion speakers for Marshall combos are "Greenbacks". The G12H30 70th Anniversary is a great speaker. Warm, good bottom end and plenty of crunch.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/celestion-g12h-anniversary-30w-12-guitar-speaker

If you want to spend a little more the UK built G12H-30 Heritage series got the right look too. But to me they sound pretty much the same.

[carfish7]

A Greenback would be cool but the power handling scares me. This is a 60 watt 1x12 combo.

[dragan]

http://www.eminence.com/guitar-bass/redcoat-series/?size=12#speakers Man o War 12' eminence is a very cool speaker 120wts - $80

[Caddie]

Careful, don't blame the speaker too soon. Those Marshall JTM amps did indeed sound great. A great combination of clean channel n boost channel. However they have a reputation for succumbing to heat problems and as they are doing the death rattle they exhibit all the symptoms you are describing. Marshall engineering decided to mount the power tubes horizontally right underneath the preamp board. Great idea for toaster ovens, not so great for tube amps. Cutting some vents in the top of the cab might have helped. A small fan too. But that just hikes up the $$$ and I think Marshall was aiming this product at a lower price market. My old JTM312 makes a cool extension cab for my Marshall 2061x. If you want spare xfmrs n other components let me know. They are just serving as ballast around here.

My advice? 1) Change the tubes (solves many tube amp problems). 2) Take a desk fan and aim it at the back of the amp. 3) Change the speaker if you insist sir. 4) Have a backup plan for when it goes toes up. You might experience better longevity out of the amp. I sure hope you do love it for years to come because it is indeed a great sounding Marshall without the permanent hearing loss. But it will do the death rattle of fuzzy, fading power first in the boost channel then the clean channel as it approaches The End.

caddie

[murkat]

" Those Marshall JTM amps did indeed sound great However they have a reputation for succumbing to heat problems and as they are doing the death rattle they exhibit all the symptoms you are describing. Marshall engineering decided to mount the power tubes horizontally right underneath the preamp board. Great idea for toaster ovens, not so great for tube amps."

agreed. I remember working/ benching at a mom and pop shop that was a Marshall dealer, Had a many Marshalls that had that design returned or in for repair of more than I can count. The Korg rep said to dump them stupid cheap as used (and they were new) with no warranty. Bad Bad Bad.

Never been a fan of V30's at all. GT12/65's hellya.

But...

My Uberschall never sounded "right" with my Marshall cabs loaded with green backs, 65's, 70's, etc.

I had to succumb to the Uberschall cab that is loaded with a combo of v30's and 75's.

Now it sounds like it should, really good. Go figure.

[ZR]

I thought all Eminence speakers were made in the USA...my friends amp has an Eminence made in China! Do they still make US speakers?