LucSulla Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 Assuming the presupposition that there really are instruments whose appearance is due to how much they were loved, I found myself pondering these questions today whilst browsing reverb: How many people have to know who I am as a guitarist before my beat to shit guitar is no longer a beat to shit guitar but a "well loved" instrument? Is "road tested" a precondition of also being "well loved," and if so, how much road does it need to be tested upon? Is there a precise moment of transubstantiation where my guitar goes from being worth less for being beat to shit to worth more for being well loved? Will I be shaking hands at the end of a gig and explaining for the millionth time that, no, this is not a PRS when a glow will fill the room and I know it's all no longer beat to shit but well loved? Were I able to documented this moment of becoming well loved, could I bring myself to type that in the copy for a reverb ad without feeling like a giant tit?
RobB Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 Are these the bigger quaystions ya’ll academic-types ponder in yer quieter moments? Gaw-DANG…
bry4321 Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 49 minutes ago, LucSulla said: Assuming the presupposition that there really are instruments whose appearance is due to how much they were loved, I found myself pondering these questions today whilst browsing reverb: How many people have to know who I am as a guitarist before my beat to shit guitar is no longer a beat to shit guitar but a "well loved" instrument? All of them
crunchee Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 'Trigger's' story sounds pretty interesting: https://www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas/trade-secrets/repairing-willie-nelsons-trigger-guitar/
LucSulla Posted January 11, 2023 Author Posted January 11, 2023 2 hours ago, RobB said: Are these the bigger quaystions ya’ll academic-types ponder in yer quieter moments? Gaw-DANG… Lol, no. But we are sometimes absurdly pedantic simply to amuse ourselves much to the annoyance of everyone else, in this case after seeing a new Reverb shop for a pretty niche band who are charging premium prices for some really beat-up... I mean thoroughly well-loved gear, maybe without consent. Then again, I guess some guitars like it rough.
crunchee Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 Sometimes, it's the owners who are rough...or have issues...or are under the influence of various substances (see the 'Bass Of Doom' portion of this Reverb article): https://reverb.com/news/remembering-jaco-pastorius-a-tribute-to-his-favorite-gear
Jim85IROC Posted January 11, 2023 Posted January 11, 2023 I feel like there's something special about getting a legitimately used-up guitar (i.e. not a relic). If you get a guitar that's just "meh", chances are you're not going to wear the frets off it. You do that to great guitars. A while back I picked up a VERY well used Seagull S6 acoustic for $50. The bridge was lifting, the scarf joint on the neck was opening up, and the cedar top showed significant strumming wear. Neck was FILTHY. This thing has obviously been played hard for a long time. I removed, repaired and reinstalled the bridge, fixed the neck, cleaned the hell out of it, and gave it a good setup. This guitar just SINGS!. All fixed up! The case was well cared for too 🤣 Before: after:
Kerry Marchman Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 2 hours ago, Jim85IROC said: I feel like there's something special about getting a legitimately used-up guitar (i.e. not a relic). If you get a guitar that's just "meh", chances are you're not going to wear the frets off it. You do that to great guitars. A while back I picked up a VERY well used Seagull S6 acoustic for $50. The bridge was lifting, the scarf joint on the neck was opening up, and the cedar top showed significant strumming wear. Neck was FILTHY. This thing has obviously been played hard for a long time. I removed, repaired and reinstalled the bridge, fixed the neck, cleaned the hell out of it, and gave it a good setup. This guitar just SINGS!. All fixed up! The case was well cared for too 🤣 Before: after: Great work Jim! I'm shocked the frets weren't worn off that bad boy!
mathman Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 18 minutes ago, Kerry Marchman said: Great work Jim! I'm shocked the frets weren't worn off that bad boy! The grime protected them....
LucSulla Posted January 12, 2023 Author Posted January 12, 2023 7 hours ago, Jim85IROC said: I feel like there's something special about getting a legitimately used-up guitar (i.e. not a relic). If you get a guitar that's just "meh", chances are you're not going to wear the frets off it. You do that to great guitars. A while back I picked up a VERY well used Seagull S6 acoustic for $50. The bridge was lifting, the scarf joint on the neck was opening up, and the cedar top showed significant strumming wear. Neck was FILTHY. This thing has obviously been played hard for a long time. I removed, repaired and reinstalled the bridge, fixed the neck, cleaned the hell out of it, and gave it a good setup. This guitar just SINGS!. Don't get me wrong. Finding something at a good price and bringing it back to life is awesome. I did it with an Ibanez 560 over the summer. Electronics were totally screwed, and I guess the guy was just over it. Fixed it up, and it is one of the few "great" MIA or MIJ guitars I've been able to get my hands on lately for what a Hamer Diablo used to go for. A colleague of mine has a 70s Guild D-50NT with a lifted bridge that he only wants $300 for. Neck doesn't seem to need a reset or is twisted, but it needs some work. I still think it's a steal though and am probably going to pick it up. I'm more talking when you have something like a late 80s SG that is pretty banged up that you are calling "well loved" and asking $3k for. That shit be jive, whack, and/or cray, depending on your choice of vernacular.
Jim85IROC Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 6 hours ago, LucSulla said: I'm more talking when you have something like a late 80s SG that is pretty banged up that you are calling "well loved" and asking $3k for. That shit be jive, whack, and/or cray, depending on your choice of vernacular. For sure. Half of the magic of getting a used up instrument is because it was a deal. If a guy charges a premium because he let his dog use it for a chew toy, that's different. It's destined to sit on Reverb for eternity with the rest of them.
stobro Posted January 12, 2023 Posted January 12, 2023 There's a quote from Ferdinand Porsche and variations of it attributed to Colin Chapman and Enzo Ferrari that goes: "The perfect racing car crosses the finish line first and subsequently falls into its component parts." Like the demise of the Bluesmobile. Maybe a guitar that isn't in danger of imminent spontaneous disassembly hasn't been played to its full potential?
gorch Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 On 1/12/2023 at 1:05 AM, alantig said: Glen Hansard. More holes make the guitar sound louder, I guess. I wonder about the player’s playing style when a guitar gets worn of that way, assumed that it is the goal to just get the strings strummed.
princeofdarkness56 Posted January 13, 2023 Posted January 13, 2023 Well loved by a serious musician will cost you big bucks. Beat to shit by the vast majority of us members will get you $350.
LucSulla Posted January 13, 2023 Author Posted January 13, 2023 On 1/12/2023 at 8:05 AM, stobro said: There's a quote from Ferdinand Porsche and variations of it attributed to Colin Chapman and Enzo Ferrari that goes: "The perfect racing car crosses the finish line first and subsequently falls into its component parts." Like the demise of the Bluesmobile. Maybe a guitar that isn't in danger of imminent spontaneous disassembly hasn't been played to its full potential? Reminds me of trying to steal a front cap after the Pepsi 400 at Daytona back in 97. Didn't accomplish that, but we did manage to sneak into Dale Earnhardt's VIP section at the start/finish line by sneaking past a sleeping security guard and then just telling anyone else who asked that we had an uncle who worked for SnapOn Tools. "Oh, that must be (whatever guy they named)!" "Yes sir, that is definitely him!" That being said, I think FP may have felt a little different if you asked him about stitching those same parts back together under the idea of running a second race and then selling the race car for more than it was originally worth due to being "well-loved."
Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame Posted January 16, 2023 Posted January 16, 2023 On 1/11/2023 at 1:45 PM, LucSulla said: Assuming the presupposition that there really are instruments whose appearance is due to how much they were loved, I found myself pondering these questions today whilst browsing reverb: How many people have to know who I am as a guitarist before my beat to shit guitar is no longer a beat to shit guitar but a "well loved" instrument? Is "road tested" a precondition of also being "well loved," and if so, how much road does it need to be tested upon? Is there a precise moment of transubstantiation where my guitar goes from being worth less for being beat to shit to worth more for being well loved? Will I be shaking hands at the end of a gig and explaining for the millionth time that, no, this is not a PRS when a glow will fill the room and I know it's all no longer beat to shit but well loved? Were I able to documented this moment of becoming well loved, could I bring myself to type that in the copy for a reverb ad without feeling like a giant tit? This kind of goes back to the lesson I learned and state badly as: a guitar (or any object) is always worth EXACTLY what the seller and buyer agree to. And that agreement only happens if both think they got the better part of the deal, i.e., the seller values the cash more than the guitar, and the buyer values the guitar more than the cash in their account. Some guitars aren't built well, and fall apart as they are beat to hell. They warp or crack or the electronics fail. Other guitars are built well, with good materials, so beating them to hell will create a cosmetic effect without impacting how it plays at all. Some people *like* a pristine instrument that looks brand new. Others *like* a guitar that looks like it's been beat to hell but still plays perfectly (hence, "relic'ing"), and if a guitar really HAS been through hell and still plays great, it indicates it is a well-made, well-built, well-constructed guitar of quality materials (whether it actually is, or just had an owner rich enough to pay a guitar tech to keep it in top-notch playing condition). I can't poke fun at any of this. I have sought guitars because of the vibe I got looking at them makes me want to play more. I fancy it sometimes puts me in a more creative mood, and that maybe I actually play better. I used to believe in the discrete impact of wood on tone, and now I don't anymore...except that I'm still paying and extra $40 for canary wood rather than just baked maple...can I really insist it is 100% *entirely* due to just the color, grain, or texture? Maybe. And yet when it comes to nicks and scratches and fading, I have gotten to the point where I don't think I care much anymore. And yet I still bought a Harley Benton I didn't need at all because I wanted transparent purple stain over highly figured flamed maple...I mean, I like the neck carve, it's getting harder to find the Wilkinson 2-point trem on new guitars, and I need the stainless steel frets, so it wasn't a DUMB purchase. So with all that, I don't think it's DUMB to describe a guitar as "chock full of mojo dings" or "Well-loved" or "road tested". It implies that there are zero issues in playability, and maybe even fewer playability issues than a new guitar that hasn't yet been "broken in". On the other hand, I don't see any reason to include those in your ad copy. Just show the flaws, and describe its playability, and let the buyer decide if it was well-loved or not?
Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame Posted January 16, 2023 Posted January 16, 2023 On 1/11/2023 at 5:45 PM, Jim85IROC said: I feel like there's something special about getting a legitimately used-up guitar (i.e. not a relic). If you get a guitar that's just "meh", chances are you're not going to wear the frets off it. You do that to great guitars. A while back I picked up a VERY well used Seagull S6 acoustic for $50. The bridge was lifting, the scarf joint on the neck was opening up, and the cedar top showed significant strumming wear. Neck was FILTHY. This thing has obviously been played hard for a long time. I removed, repaired and reinstalled the bridge, fixed the neck, cleaned the hell out of it, and gave it a good setup. This guitar just SINGS!. All fixed up! The case was well cared for too 🤣 Before: after: will you take $150 for it?
Jim85IROC Posted January 16, 2023 Posted January 16, 2023 51 minutes ago, Nathan of Brainfertilizer Fame said: will you take $150 for it? nope.
JGale Posted January 16, 2023 Posted January 16, 2023 On 1/12/2023 at 9:05 AM, stobro said: There's a quote from Ferdinand Porsche and variations of it attributed to Colin Chapman and Enzo Ferrari that goes: "The perfect Fiat car that arrives home from the dealer and subsequently falls into its component parts is par for the corsa." FTFY
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