No Love For Blackface Bandmasters

[Dutchman]

I have 2 of these. AB763 Circuit with the swampiest Tremelo Creedance Lovers could ask for. I just don't understand why the Reverb Deluxe and the Twin get so much love but the Bandmaster is the RedHeaded step child. If it's the reverb many pedal reverb units sound better. Compared side by side I like my Bandmaster tone over the Deluxe Reverb and the Twin. It's more aggressive and mid forward, perfect for cutting thru a Drummer and Keys.

So what's the thoughts from you guy's??? Why are Deluxe Reverbs $5000.00 now and Bandmasters around $1000.00??? Same parts with 1 minor stage for reverb in the Deluxe. Oh and 6V6 vs 6l6 and the appropriate transformers are different. But it's the exact same circuit!! It's a mystery to me because Bandmasters flat out got some tone!!!

Edited April 27 by Dutchman

[DaveH]

I remember when you could get a Bandmaster head at the pawn shop for $35. I've done it. That was way before my knowledge would allow me to mod it, and it went away because I still had the 6G12 (61 Concert, and still do). Back then it would be totally acceptable to mod the heck out of it, now, not so much... Better to build one ground up.

[ArnieZ]

aren't the banmaster and pro reverb the same except for reverb?

arniez

[Dutchman]

1 hour ago, ArnieZ said:

aren't the banmaster and pro reverb the same except for reverb?

arniez

Pretty much. Leo did some switching to accommodate the power transformers and the output transformers but the circuit is very close to the same. All AB763 circuits. 

If you want that Blackface sound on a budget, get a Bandmaster!!

WGS is making 4ohm speakers now! I like the WGS ET-65. So light weight load in and killer sound!!!

Edited April 28 by Dutchman

[RobB]

Did Bandmasters ever have combo version?

[topekatj]

38 minutes ago, RobB said:

Did Bandmasters ever have combo version?

I was aware of the tweed 3 x 10” (same cab as the bassman) but had never seen a brown face, must be pretty rare, looks cool.

Edited April 28 by topekatj

[RobB]

Wow. I bet those sound great wide open. Add a Rangemaster and, BOOM!

[Dutchman]

1 hour ago, RobB said:

Did Bandmasters ever have combo version?

Blackface versions were all Heads with 2X12 Cabinets. The Head locked to the cabinet. Just like the Bassman. The only way to tell a Bassman cab from a Bandmaster Cab is the space between the mounting hardware. Bassman being shorter. 

Eddy didn't start with Marshall's he dimed Bandmasters!

https://wgsusa.com/blogs/news/eddie-van-halen-secret-amp-the-fender-bandmaster

Edited April 28 by Dutchman

[RobB]

33 minutes ago, Dutchman said:

Blackface versions were all Heads with 2X12 Cabinets. The Head locked to the cabinet. Just like the Bassman. The only way to tell a Bassman cab from a Bandmaster Cab is the space between the mounting hardware. Bassman being shorter. 

Eddy didn't start with Marshall's he dimed Bandmasters!

https://wgsusa.com/blogs/news/eddie-van-halen-secret-amp-the-fender-bandmaster

I had one of those in HS. With the large, vertical 2x12. I tried the ext cab-only speaker output once. It sounded killer, but I was afraid of blowing the transformer so back to speaker 1 it went. 

[Dutchman]

The ground from the output transformer is on the extension speaker output. I don't know where all the blow the transformer stuff came from. 4 ohms is 4ohms. The biggest thing I can think of is the regular speaker out has a grounded positive side just like the input Jack's. I've plugged into the wrong one in the dark many times. You know it as soon as you start playing. Big decrease in volume!

[Jimbilly]

22 hours ago, DaveH said:

I remember when you could get a Bandmaster head at the pawn shop for $35. I've done it. That was way before my knowledge would allow me to mod it, and it went away because I still had the 6G12 (61 Concert, and still do). Back then it would be totally acceptable to mod the heck out of it, now, not so much... Better to build one ground up.

I bought a silverface silver trim BMR head from a guy for $45, around '88. He had no idea if it worked or not; it worked perfectly without any service for the 8-10 years I owned it, until I stupidly sold it for treefitty ish. 

I think the others are just overpriced, the ones with collectible value sound great, but really aren't any 'better' than many-many modern builds, and I say that as the owner of a 'grail' combo. 

 The ampeg B25 is a 'sleeper', I'd love to a/b one with a Bandmaster. No spring reverb on the B25, but I don't play surf.

[HoboMan]

My first good amp was a fender blackface Bandmaster with a Fender 4x12 cab.

Prior to that I had a tiny Kustom solid state amp that sounded like crap. I was rehearsing with a band and could never hear myself. The other guitar player had some kind of Peavey combo that was drowning me out. I remember bringing in my Fender Bandmaster and turning it up and blowing everyone away. 
We always had people hanging out on the couch and they were saying the that the band sounded really "full". The other guitar player wasn't happy because he said he couldn't hear himself anymore.

I did my first few gigs with that amp. I liked it.

[django49]

Our band way back then (60s) was lead by an English guitarist with a blackface Bandmaster. Along with  the stock 2 x 12, he had a second cab with a pair of high frequency horns. Not exactly like the Quicksilver rig, but you get the idea....He would more or loss turn everything to 10, then dare us to keep up. It was a bit funny because our local crowds would stand WAY back rather than the more typical "get close and check out the band" tendency.

By volume, we were ahead of our time. By talent, well.....😁

[alantig]

This thread has made me chuckle the last few days, not because of any content, but because on the main forums page, when it appears as the most recently active thread, it shows as

 

And I think, "Man, that's an unfortunate hill to die on..."

[crunchee]

On 4/28/2025 at 4:38 PM, Jimbilly said:

I bought a silverface silver trim BMR head from a guy for $45, around '88. He had no idea if it worked or not; it worked perfectly without any service for the 8-10 years I owned it, until I stupidly sold it for treefitty ish. 

I think the others are just overpriced, the ones with collectible value sound great, but really aren't any 'better' than many-many modern builds, and I say that as the owner of a 'grail' combo. 

 The ampeg B25 is a 'sleeper', I'd love to a/b one with a Bandmaster. No spring reverb on the B25, but I don't play surf.

IMO, I think the old big-head BMRs are underrated...if you look at the specs and the schematic, they look a lot to me like the same year Super Reverb, except you don't have to haul the amp and speakers all at once.  It's a lot easier on the shins too, since you don't have a loaded 4x10 amp banging you in the shins every time you take a step.

[Dutchman]

17 hours ago, crunchee said:

IMO, I think the old big-head BMRs are underrated...if you look at the specs and the schematic, they look a lot to me like the same year Super Reverb, except you don't have to haul the amp and speakers all at once.  It's a lot easier on the shins too, since you don't have a loaded 4x10 amp banging you in the shins every time you take a step.

This ^^^^ amp head and a 1-12 4ohm cabinet. Lots of power or just enough and all of it sounding so smooth!! Think of the intro to Wicked Game. That drips of an AB763 Circuit. On my Bandmaster I think I've seen women Climax!!! Lol!!

[velorush]

32 minutes ago, Dutchman said:

On my Bandmaster I think I've seen women Climax!!! Lol!!

What's it like? 

 

[crunchee]

There are definite design differences between a 'regular' reverb-less Bandmaster and the Bandmaster Reverb, but at the end of the day it all depends on your ears and hands:

 

[Brooks]

I had a Bandmaster and a Traynor 4x12 in the early 90s, great rig!