Gibson quality control

[jaberwock]

Ever since I was fifteen and saw Paul Kossof play with Back Street Crawler, I've hankered after a sunburst Les Paul, and after seeing, and playing a 1959 VOS custom shop reissue on a trip back to The UK ( American guitars are outrageously expensive there ) I've got uncontrollable G.A.S

A lot of folks have told me of Gibson's hit or miss quality control over the last decade, does this extend to the custom shop guitars ? ie. would it be a substantial risk to buy one on line with out having seen, or heard it ? Is there anyone within this group who deals in them ?

Is it the quality of the timber that is the main difference between custom shop, and there regular production instruments ?

Thanks Jaberwock

[JES1680]

IMO yes it's too much of a risk to mail order. They're quality has gotten much better over the last few years, but for the amount of money you need to drop on a new Historic Lester, I'd want to put my hands on it first.

[serial]

I have four Custom/Historic Gibsons (FB1, R4Goldtop, R7BB, and an Everly Bros. acoustic) and three are spectacular, one is really good (I need to spend some time getting the action where I want it).

All were purchased without touching them first. I think that as longas you're buying from a good dealer (not Guitar Center or something), you'd probably do very nicely.

[cmatthes]

I think the nitpicking has more to do with their "Production" instruments. I have never owned a bad Custom Shop instrument, and any of the Historics I've played have been very nice.

I do think there's something lacking in the regular QC department, and the mega-sellers (GC, MF, AMS, etc.) don't do anything to rectify this as long as they're moving product. Add to that the wild internet stories from the armchair QBs over on HC and TGP who have probably never even SEEN a real Gibson in the flesh, yet pile on every time the topic comes up. It gets the word around, good or bad.

[Turdus]

I've owned 4 or 5 myself. All have been fine. My biggest issue was the mintier they were, the less I wanted to play them

So I bought one, few years back, that had actually been played. This eliminated all fears of playing it in clubs. At this point, it's a natural relic.

I bought it, without ability to try it first, and it's perhaps my best player.

[moozak]

the quality of their newer stuff seems pretty good to me... especially the 2009/2010 stuff. they've also been plek'ing the frets (and nut slots) since around 2006 or so... so the one's i've had my hands on seem to play great. the newer r9's have GREAT necks on them... not the old "baseball bat" things they used to do... just a nice meaty 59 style neck with a great feel. granted, you'll run into some things like little vibrations on the bridges and things that you may need to address (but that's part of owning a guitar with an old-style ABR... that's NOT a quality issue). so, i personally think you'll be fine... and if you're that worried... make sure you use a dealer that has a return policy... some have 48hr return policies... some even 72... so that eliminates the feeling of "getting stuck" with something you don't like. ask a lot of questions via email or over the phone first... most dealers seem to be very good at answering any questions you might have.

[cynic]

I own or have owned 57 and 68 RI LPC's, and a CS Flying V, all very nice guitars that were purchased site unseen. As mentioned above, it really comes down to the reputation of the dealer and how they will take care of you in the event you're not satisfied.

I feel the cost of $50 shipping to find out if you like a $2000-$4000 guitar that may not be available locally is more wise than settling for what could be a lesser guitar simply because it's close.

[murkat]

Be specific with your questions, concerns, and I will try to answer the best I can. euro and asian GCS guitars are highly inspected at the shop and re setup, fine tuned prior to shipment. Alot Better than most us retailers get except for the real nice shops because they will call out the defincency and send it back and get credited. But get your hands on it if you can, its your call.

J

[ArnieZ]

I had an 06 VOS R8. It was a 2 out of 3 guitar for tone playability and fit n finish. The guitar played well, sounded like an LP should, but compared to my Hamer stuff was very deficcient in fit and finish. I could never get squared with the orange peel on the neck. the neck was also a touch too big for me. I spoke to the guys at Wilcutt where I bought the guitar. They basically said it would be very hard to get one that was a 3/3. Didn't love enought to keep it! I was not looking for anything specific just a guitar I could love! YMMV

ArnieZ

[jaberwock]

I've owned 4 or 5 myself. All have been fine. My biggest issue was the mintier they were, the less I wanted to play them

So I bought one, few years back, that had actually been played. This eliminated all fears of playing it in clubs. At this point, it's a natural relic.

I bought it, without ability to try it first, and it's perhaps my best player.

"the mintier they were, the less I wanted to play them" Yes I know that feeling, at the first ding, along with a cry of horror there's almost of sense of relief, now I can gig with that guitar !!

[jaberwock]

Thanks for all your replies, certainly gave me food for thought.

Firstly I live and work in Taiwan so air freighting a guitar here is around US$ 250, plus insurance, and import duty, so I'd be reluctant to return one. They do have a couple of Historic 59 reissues on the Island but they are around US$ 7000 !!! so it would be far cheaper to buy one online from the States.

I probably wouldn't gig with this guitar, I normally go with Tele's, but recently more, and more with my Monaco III ( what a fabulous, singing, voice that guitar has ) it would be for recording, and noodling around at home.

In my heart of hearts I'd have to say I was totally blown away at how beautiful the LP was particularly in the VOS lemon burst, and this is probably fueling my desire, as much as the way it sounds; so as someone so wisely pointed out given the superior fit, and finish on Hamer instruments, I'd probably be better off with a good second hand Hamer sunburst, and save a couple of grand into the bargain.

Thanks again for all your wisdom Jaberwock

[LordOfTheThighs]

so as someone so wisely pointed out given the superior fit, and finish on Hamer instruments, I'd probably be

better off with a good second hand Hamer sunburst, and save a couple of grand into the bargain.

Yes, you can pick up a used USA Hamer for a song, compared to a Gibson Historic LP. But I don't agree that

Hamer has a superior fit and finish over the Historics. I've owned both, and I still own a Historic R8, and am Hamerless, for now.

If the Historic was an inferior instrument, I wouldn't have kept it. Its every bit the guitar that Hamers are.

But $$$ for $$$, Hamer is the bang for the buck ... no doubt.

[Guest Guitarist]

My guitar tech does a once over under warranty for new Les Pauls about 6x a week currently.

It use to be worse believe it or not.

I continue to be amazed at the love these guitars receive based on their quality. For what ever reason people demand perfection from budget based automobiles like a Honda, but will accept deficiencies from a supposed superior brand, with superior pricing, from Gibson.

[Brownsound]

I just bought an LP Traditional + based on pics only. Cannot find one flaw. Apparently is was a dealer sample. I do know that I went through 5 LP Standards in 2005 that were ordered online...the freboards and fit and finish were uniformly bad. There were deep gouges on the fretboard next to each of the frets indicating that the person fressing the binding didnt know what th hell he was doing. This 2010 guitar is perfect.

There QA is better in my mind.

[Armitage]

I've got a number of Gibsons that are fantastic... but I've got a friend at the Canadian distributor who gets his kicks showing me some of the crap that gets sent back... "Why did they even bother to string it?"

P.S. I love Taiwan... I always have a great time there... I spend about 5 weeks every three years there... last time I spent a day with Master Chen Tian-Yang (or is it Tian-Youan? Or is it just a Mandarin/Hakka/Taiwanese thing?), recognized by the Chinese government as the last 100% hand made sword maker (no power tools)... and he gave me a sword to bring back... his San Tsai sword, (page 66 in his book!), it's the pride of my sword collection.

Master Chen even has a site; http://sword.tacomall.com.tw/story/index.htm

Old pix though, his hair is white... same Beatles/Bruce Lee hair style though.

7-11 (the variety store) seems to be the National Store there! They're everywhere and carry everything... Taiwan's not much for guitar stores though. (Don't even think of trying to buy a box to ship something in).

T'sai Jen.

[eightyfour]

On a per-capita basis I don't think Gibson's lemon record is all that bad. My Gibsons are amazing instruments, but admittedly I didn't get them through mail-order, and passed on many before selecting my buys. I have always liked their, as I call it, 'organic feel'. Many guit's, Hamer in particular, often seem too refined, and somewhat synthetic in feel. Not that that''s a bad thing, just different. Generally I think Gibson get's a pretty bad rap from some brand loyalists. Their prices are high and that seems to rub some the wrong way, but they sell like water in the desert, so why not? Sound biz to me. No idea what if any point I was tryin to make. I like pudding.

[tbonesullivan]

I haven't found any QC issues with my Gibson SG standard, and it was even "scratch n' dent"

[HSB0531]

Both guitar players in my band have bought several SG reissues each.

They seem to be happy with the quality.

[Armitage]

I don't think it's even been a general quality issue with Gibson.. it's more a case of letting obvious things slip through that should have been caught, for that kind of money anyways. If you can pick up a guitar in a shop and go whoa... then the guy who strung it and set it up should have seen it too. After all, he's got experience with thousands of the same model.

[jaberwock]

I've got a number of Gibsons that are fantastic... but I've got a friend at the Canadian distributor who gets his kicks showing me some of the crap that gets sent back... "Why did they even bother to string it?"

P.S. I love Taiwan... I always have a great time there... I spend about 5 weeks every three years there... last time I spent a day with Master Chen Tian-Yang (or is it Tian-Youan? Or is it just a Mandarin/Hakka/Taiwanese thing?), recognized by the Chinese government as the last 100% hand made sword maker (no power tools)... and he gave me a sword to bring back... his San Tsai sword, (page 66 in his book!), it's the pride of my sword collection.

Master Chen even has a site; http://sword.tacomall.com.tw/story/index.htm

Old pix though, his hair is white... same Beatles/Bruce Lee hair style though.

7-11 (the variety store) seems to be the National Store there! They're everywhere and carry everything... Taiwan's not much for guitar stores though. (Don't even think of trying to buy a box to ship something in).

T'sai Jen.

I had a Monaco III shipped here in February by US Priority mail and it arrived here in perfect condition, even the outer packing box was fine.

[jaberwock]

I have met a guy here who travels regularly to Japan buying and selling guitars( he absolutely loved my Monaco III) he reckons he can pick up a really nice used Yamano R9 in Tokyo for around 4500 $, that seems a fair judging by ebay prices.

Having said that I played a PRS singlecut with the 57 wire pickups this week, and it's sound, and feel were just intoxicating, and thats only 3 grand new.

Jaberwock