MCChris Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I believe a band shouldn't just rest on their legend or their laurels. I feel the same way for just about every group, from the Stones to AC/DC.Totally agree. Which is why the vast majority of "classic" rock bands should have simply quit a long time ago. But ultimately, guys like David Lee Roth and Eddie Van Halen are no different than Joe Six Pack. As they close in on retirement, it behooves them to amass as much cash as possible while they still can, and ideally with as little effort as possible. In Van Halen's case, when nostalgic fans are all too willing to fork piles of it in their direction, well, so far only ABBA has shown the restraint to say no to that.
MCChris Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I'll disagree with the age. AC/DC ( I beleive a few members are into their 60's) on the Black Ice tour while sounding great still had the "edge" or whatever you want to call it. I saw Link Wray not too long before his death and that old man also absolutely brought it.Those guys are the exceptions (add Lemmy to the list too). And yes, even though I don't doubt they were still awesome when you saw them, they've also lost a step or two. It's just the way it is. They're not superhuman. We should all aspire to *only* lose a step or two when we reach that age.
cynic Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Bless the hearts of these four stars who were willing to pick up that torch and RUN!
svl Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 You all know what the best part of all this conjecture, praise and criticism is? It's got people everywhere talking about VH again in a very big way (hell, look at this thread alone- five pages long already!), and buying the single and the tour tickets. All the AMEX only presale VIP big money ($995, $595 & $395) packages for Chicago sold out in the first couple of hours, which is more than likely true for the other markets as well. And you can bet the new album will do big numbers as well, both out of fan love and just plain old curiosity.Some of ya may hate it, some of ya may "meh" it and some of ya are truly diggin' it (like I am), but it all adds up to the same outcome for the band. Mo' fame, mo' money and hopefully for us diehards mo' VH albums to come. To paraphrase the wise one, "Life IS good- long live the Mighty Van Halen!"
diablo175 Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I believe a band shouldn't just rest on their legend or their laurels. I feel the same way for just about every group, from the Stones to AC/DC.Totally agree. Which is why the vast majority of "classic" rock bands should have simply quit a long time ago. But ultimately, guys like David Lee Roth and Eddie Van Halen are no different than Joe Six Pack. As they close in on retirement, it behooves them to amass as much cash as possible while they still can, and ideally with as little effort as possible. In Van Halen's case, when nostalgic fans are all too willing to fork piles of it in their direction, well, so far only ABBA has shown the restraint to say no to that.I guess if bands are honest about their intentions. i.e. "we're here to collect cash & play all your faves from our past catalog of faves" I wouldn't be quite as holier than thou. But if you're gonna make an album of "new" material and expect me to shell out for it or offer up grass roots level promotion for it, ya better bring the goods. I'm gonna hold it up to the light just as I would for any newer, not-quite-ready-for-retirement band.
MCChris Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 You all know what the best part of all this conjecture, praise and criticism is? It's got people everywhere talking about VH again in a very big way (hell, look at this thread alone- five pages long already!), and buying the single and the tour tickets. All the AMEX only presale VIP big money ($995, $595 & $395) packages for Chicago sold out in the first couple of hours, which is more than likely true for the other markets as well. And you can bet the new album will do big numbers as well, both out of fan love and just plain old curiosity.Some of ya may hate it, some of ya may "meh" it and some of ya are truly diggin' it (like I am), but it all adds up to the same outcome for the band. Mo' fame, mo' money and hopefully for us diehards mo' VH albums to come. To paraphrase the wise one, "Life IS good- long live the Mighty Van Halen!"Just remember that while "people everywhere" are indeed talking about and spending money on Van Halen, only we music nerds give a rat's ass about their new material. All the edgy, middle-aged, casual-fan suburbanites at the concerts will be taking leaks, buying beers and posting to Facebook about how awesome they are when "Tattoo" or "Bullethead" creep into the set.
cynic Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 You all know what the best part of all this conjecture, praise and criticism is? It's got people everywhere talking about VH again in a very big way (hell, look at this thread alone- five pages long already!), and buying the single and the tour tickets. I discuss NFL football too, but they'll never get another dime from me
MCChris Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 if bands are honest about their intentions. i.e. "we're here to collect cash & play all your faves from our past catalog of faves"Again, methinks your expectations are unrealistic, especially in this regard. Even Rush, who appear as genuine as can be and probably are to a large extent, are all about the cash these days. Which is why they didn't play "Caress of Steel" or even "2112" or "Permanent Waves" in their entirety on the Time Machine tour. Sure, the rabid fans would have eaten that up, but the *casual* fans (a.k.a. the ones who take things over the top from a revenue perspective) would have passed on it.
hikarateboy Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 But, if you read the Lefsetz column linked above, you've come to realize it's our fault Van Halen has lost a step or two because we're not spending enough money on our listening equipment.I hear where you are coming from and sorry wasnt the point I was trying to make. The reason I linked that column was here is a guy who REALLY knows music and the business of music, I'd say much better than any of us music nerds. If you dont believe me read some of his archives or better yet subscribe to his list, worth it imo.The thing is even though I was totally unimpressed by Tatoo when I heard it on the video, Leftsetz, a guy I have a good amount of respect for, had the somewhat the same initial reaction but now LOVES it. It would be easy to say that putz doesnt know what good music is but as a follower of his for a while, I think he does and respect his opinion so it really surprised me. He's not your average everyday critic who will say anything for seats and a backstage pass when they roll thru town.
svl Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 You all know what the best part of all this conjecture, praise and criticism is? It's got people everywhere talking about VH again in a very big way (hell, look at this thread alone- five pages long already!), and buying the single and the tour tickets. I discuss NFL football too, but they'll never get another dime from me And yet somehow the NFL soldiers on...
svl Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 You all know what the best part of all this conjecture, praise and criticism is? It's got people everywhere talking about VH again in a very big way (hell, look at this thread alone- five pages long already!), and buying the single and the tour tickets. All the AMEX only presale VIP big money ($995, $595 & $395) packages for Chicago sold out in the first couple of hours, which is more than likely true for the other markets as well. And you can bet the new album will do big numbers as well, both out of fan love and just plain old curiosity.Some of ya may hate it, some of ya may "meh" it and some of ya are truly diggin' it (like I am), but it all adds up to the same outcome for the band. Mo' fame, mo' money and hopefully for us diehards mo' VH albums to come. To paraphrase the wise one, "Life IS good- long live the Mighty Van Halen!"Just remember that while "people everywhere" are indeed talking about and spending money on Van Halen, only we music nerds give a rat's ass about their new material. All the edgy, middle-aged, casual-fan suburbanites at the concerts will be taking leaks, buying beers and posting to Facebook about how awesome they are when "Tattoo" or "Bullethead" creep into the set.Oh, that's a given. Still doesn't change the outcome of the game...
cynic Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 But, if you read the Lefsetz column linked above, you've come to realize it's our fault Van Halen has lost a step or two because we're not spending enough money on our listening equipment.I hear where you are coming from and sorry wasnt the point I was trying to make.I went back to his blog, and I had totally missed the third article down, which I think is probably the one you were referencing.
MCChris Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 the outcome of the game...And what's that again?
cynic Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 the outcome of the game... And what's that again? That smug fanboys will never learn
diablo175 Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 the outcome of the game... And what's that again? That VH has arrived at retirement age with mediocre, luke warm drivel for new material and will sell a gazillion concert tickets playing the faves of our yesteryears- :lol:
Cary Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 You guys know that there will probably be 9 or so OTHER songs on their album, right? And that singles aren't necessarily the best songs on albums? That VH has arrived at retirement age with mediocre, luke warm drivel for new material and will sell a gazillion concert tickets playing the faves of our yesteryears- :lol: Don't mean to single out diablo (or MCChris, for that matter), but I've seen remarks along these same lines here before, and I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong with occasionally enjoying the music of our youth? It sure doesn't seem as creepy as being 50 and trying to dress like a 20 year old and attending some techno-rave concert with a bunch of kids young enough to be one's own kids (or grandkids or that matter).
svl Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 the outcome of the game...And what's that again?That it's the music "business", and money will be made regardless of the smug anti-fanboys critiques and protests. People can like it or not, but that (monetary success) is the ultimate goal that professionals in any industry strive for. Without it, ain't much gonna happen.It's all good, people. If ya dig what they're laying down, awesome. If ya don't that's groovy, too. Me, I'm just glad to get a chance to enjoy Dave & Ed together again, young, old, innovative or otherwise inclined.
MCChris Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Don't mean to single out diablo (or MCChris, for that matter), but I've seen remarks along these same lines here before, and I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong with occasionally enjoying the music of our youth? It sure doesn't seem as creepy as being 50 and trying to dress like a 20 year old and attending some techno-rave concert with a bunch of kids young enough to be one's own kids (or grandkids or that matter). There's nothing wrong with it. Issues arise when there are complaints about prices, that the old band isn't supporting something new and therefore is doing a money grab, or if they are supporting something new, that the new stuff by the 60-year-olds somehow doesn't have the fire of their 20-year-old selves, blah blah blah. Again, reasonable expectations are the key here. And on the flip side of the rest of your post, I won't go so far as to call it "creepy" when 50-somethings take their teenage or 20-something kids to classic rock concerts, but i will say that there's something not right about it, and in fact is very anti-rock'n'roll. I was fine with my old man giving me a ride to see VH on the Diver Down tour and picking me up afterward, but I damn well didn't want him sitting next to me inside the venue. Nor was i interested in seeing Simon and Garfunkel or the 5th Dimension with him. On a side note, I'd like to clarify that while those of you who have met me in person know that I am indeed a prick, I'm not as much of a prick as perhaps I'm coming across in this thread. I just happen to be typing from a workplace that I've been let go from but still have to show up to until March 2 so I don't get dicked out of my severance, therefore I'm a bit salty. That also explains why i have so much time to respond lol. Now back to the spirited discussion, which I'm enjoying.
Cary Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Don't mean to single out diablo (or MCChris, for that matter), but I've seen remarks along these same lines here before, and I'm still trying to figure out what's wrong with occasionally enjoying the music of our youth? It sure doesn't seem as creepy as being 50 and trying to dress like a 20 year old and attending some techno-rave concert with a bunch of kids young enough to be one's own kids (or grandkids or that matter). There's nothing wrong with it. Issues arise when there are complaints about prices, that the old band isn't supporting something new and therefore is doing a money grab, or if they are supporting something new, that the new stuff by the 60-year-olds somehow doesn't have the fire of their 20-year-old selves, blah blah blah. Again, reasonable expectations are the key here. And on the flip side of the rest of your post, I won't go so far as to call it "creepy" when 50-somethings take their 20-something kids to classic rock concerts, but i will say that there's something not right about it, and in fact is very anti-rock'n'roll. I was fine with my old man giving me a ride to see VH on the Diver Down tour and picking me up afterward, but I damn well didn't want him sitting next to me inside the venue. Nor was i interested in seeing Simon and Garfunkel or the 5th Dimension with him. On a side note, I'd like to clarify that while those of you who have met me in person know that I am indeed a prick, I'm not as much of a prick as perhaps I'm coming across in this thread. I just happen to be typing from a workplace that I've been let go from but still have to show up to until March 2 so I don't get dicked out of my severance, therefore I'm a bit salty. That also explains why i have so much time to respond lol. Now back to the spirited discussion, which I'm enjoying. Actually, I don't have a problem with 50 year-olds bringing their kids to classic rock concerts - I've done it myself and it can be fun. I was talking more about 50 year-olds going to younger shows alone in a lame (and largely transparent) attempt to still seem hip and relevant (again, not pointed at you). I don't have a problem with a money grab playing old material, either - If fans want to hear it and pay for it, more power to 'em - band and fans alike. As has already been pointed out, the guys in VH aren't 20 anymore, so we probably shouldn't expect them to act like it. I'll buy the new album, and even if it doesn't live up to their old stuff, I can just about guarantee it'll be one of my favorite releases of the year just because there seems to be so much crap released these days (and no, I don't think that's a symptom of my growing older, I really do think there's a bunch of crap out there - like there probably ALWAYS has been, but there seems to be more of it these days). Sorry to hear about your job, Chris - that sucks. Hopefully you'll get soemthing else lined up in the meantime, albeit probably not something that makes the rest of us so damn envious
kizanski Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 On a side note, I'd like to clarify that while those of you who have met me in person know that I am indeed a prick, I'm not as much of a prick as perhaps I'm coming across in this thread."That I am! Hey!"Holy Hell.I don't even know where to start...
BubbaVO Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 I don't belong in a crowded pub jammed with 22 year olds rockin' out to some music that I don't get lyrically or sonically. But if I like what I hear and I'm digging it, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.Sorry to hear about the gig, MCC. I'm sure you'll land on your feet. As for VH, I'll reserve judgment on the album until I hear it. They may have just pulled a rabbit out of a hat. Despite what Sammy says, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
Dasein Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 ... I am indeed a prick,...[AND]... I'm a bit salty.Now back to the spirited discussion, which I'm enjoying.Salty Prick I believe is a Scandinavian delicacy that is eaten in the High Arctic on even numbered days when the wind is blowing in from Easternly direction... I much prefer something like lambchops served medium rare with a little mint sauce but hey -- that's just me.
Stike Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Yeah, but you liked Modern Day Delilah too so the point is moot. This?!
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