cmatthes Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 That particular guitar is really just a "test bed" for the pickups - it is not a 100% finished product. Mike and Josh have had EXTENSIVE discussions on their vision of how the pickups will compliment the guitar and vice versa. Trust me, that has been considered!
soli'd Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 I figured as much- didn't mean to question whether something was considered, but rather just wondering what those considerations are...
Sugartune Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 I had the same thoughts about the test bed, but in the end, Mike's a pro. He's got all angles covered whether we know it or not. Those guitars loaded with these pickups are going to be a real sonic treat. How lucky we are to be a part of it all.
cmatthes Posted October 10, 2014 Posted October 10, 2014 Trust me - Mike and Josh are top level pros. If you or I think of something, they've already figured it out!
HSB0531 Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 Forgive the ignorance, but who's Josh?The guy making the pickups maybe?
cmatthes Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 Yes. Check out Mike's site/blog as well as Josh's introductory post here.
The Shark Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 Trust me - Mike and Josh are top level pros. If you or I think of something, they've already figured it out! My guess is that they know a fluted body has a much different midrange "hump" than a heavier solid body. I prefer darker pickups like the Rio Grandes I have in my "weight relieved" Standard. I'm guessing Mike had a hand in it's creation...
Sugartune Posted October 13, 2014 Posted October 13, 2014 Drool! That one makes me swear unnecessarily.^^^^
JGravelin Posted October 14, 2014 Posted October 14, 2014 Great question, Soli'd! I saw your post a few days ago and wanted to address it because I figure that if you're wondering, then others might be too and...well, it's a completely valid question that deserves a reply. Cmatthes speaks the truth: Mike and I have had a number of discussions about the pickups and the purpose they'll serve in The Ultimates. There's absolutely no doubt that chambered mahogany with a maple cap sounds and responds a bit different than an instrument made of solid mahogany. To a degree, the effects of a chambered 'hog body with a maple cap are predictable: a slight roll off in the low fundamental, a more open midrange responsiveness, and extra "air" and harmonic content to the notes with the high end. This has been my experience with chambered instruments anyway. With a solid mahogany bodied instrument one can expect solid lows, midrange frequencies forward, and slightly subdued and sweet sounding highs comparatively speaking.As was previously stated, the proto guitar is a test-bed but there are tonal characteristics that will remain constant due in large part to Mike's excellent neck joint. So how do I do it? I use my knowledge of tonewoods and guitar construction that I've amassed over the years working in guitar shops and repairing instruments as well as the stuff I soaked up from hanging out in my Fathers shop as a kid (my Dad is a luthier)- but most importantly, I use these large unsightly ears of mine and listen critically.I spent much time playing and listening to the proto guitar acoustically and still do because to me, the starting point for any well-made pickup is to magnify the natural sound of the instrument without much coloration, with respect to the positioning of said pickup. That's the baseline. From there, it's small tweaks to the design: increasing/decreasing the turns-per-layer, tension on the wire, number of turns, magnet choice, metal choices for slugs and screws and keeper bars, etc. until the desired result is acheived. There are other considerations in creating a matched, balanced set because not only do the neck and bridge have to sound killer on their own, they also have to sound great in the middle switched position with both on. Because of this, there's a certain range in which two humbuckers will sound "good" when combined together. Taking it too far out of that range equals an unbalanced sound, which is unacceptable.What I'm doing with this set is creating something versatile and toneful: pickups designed to work together and compliment each other, as well as kick ass on their own: slightly lower output in the neck position with an A4 magnet (clear and articulate, a nice singing bell-tone quality ala late-50's Gib with no low-mid bloat), and the bridge (A5 magnet) leans a little more to the "time to rock!" side of things like a good overwound PAF style, but still has enough sparkle and chime in there to be able to chicken-pick and cut it on a country gig. I'm still not quite satisfied with the bridge pickup actually, but it's very very very close. I'm a bit OCD and any of my friends will tell you that I'm a perfectionist - the words "good enough" don't really exist in my world: it's gotta be spot-on. Also, I know you guys will tear me to shreds if the pickups are lackluster so obviously I won't be putting myself in that position! The neck is in the 7.5k range, the bridge will land in the mid to upper 8's. Still working on thebridge pickup as I mentioned previously, but that's about what you can expect. Hope that clears things up and provides some insight into my process. Thanks for reading!
The Shark Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Fantastic analysis. What excites me most is the attention paid to the middle position. When both pickups are right, the middle postion is (in my mind) the most dynamic and expressive. My experience is that a warm vintage style neck pickup with just enough sparkle is best matched with a darker and slightly more powerful bridge pickup. I don't need no chickin' pickin' sound from my humbuckers. That's what Strats and Teles are for!
soli'd Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Thanks for the reply, Josh! I agree with The Shark re: the middle position- I typically stay on that middle position and balance the contribution of the neck's and bridge's respective tones with the volume knobs.
JGravelin Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 With any guitar featuring a 3-way switch, the middle position deserves just as much attention and consideration as each of the pickups gets on its own, yes, absolutely, without a doubt. All three options need to sound related to the one that comes before and/or after, the frequency response tailored and fine-tuned to provide a cohesive tonal experience that makes sense to the ears from one switched position to the next.An analogy I use often when describing Sets of pickups is relating each pickup in a guitar as part of a 50's greaser street gang. The all have slicked back hair, pipeleg "skinny" jeans, tshirts, leather jackets, boots...all grew up on the same block... yet each member has something distinctly and uniquely their own. One guy has a white tshirt, the other black. One has boots with cuban heels, the other without. Each serves a purpose that serves a shared end-result. Different yes, but a cohesive unit that works together.---Shark! While the coils in the bridge position are asymmetrical, I won't be pushing it to the extreme that I start introducing identifiable and commonly associated single-coil tones into things. That said, one can tune the upper midrange and treble response as well as the bass response greatly by offsetting the amount of wire on each coil, varying the turns per layer, tightening/loosening the tension on the wire, mixing/matching the grades of steel used for the metal parts, and more. And more.For me, it's about a very specific balance. And for the sake of clarity I must state that "chicken pickin'" is a technique and not a tone. It's great to know that you feel the same way as I with chambered bodies and yeah, the bridge position especially needs and does benefit in having a bit more kung fu fighting power. That special "Hi-karate", if you will. (hi Ted!)-----Wouldn't it be really f'ing awesome if in the wide open setting on the bridge, there was enough sparkle, chime, and clarity in the upper registers that a guy/gal could play in that way and have it come off as sounding legit? And then maybe you roll the tone control back a hair and dirty things up and suddenly Surrender sounds just perfect and Those that are About To Rock are Saluting You? And a hair more on the tone and you're totally Unchained, and turning the volume control down slightly leaves no doubt that indeed the Boys Are Back In Town? My reference points, my standards in what I'm shooting for with the bridge.When a person hops back to the bridge position, it's to make an authoritive and musicial statement. And this is exactly why taking a little extra special care with the bridge pickup is important to me because in making that statement it'd be nice to be able to cover as much ground as musicially possible, yes?As CMatthes said, Mike and I are indeed considering every possible tiny little dang thing. You guys are in for a real treat and rest assured that I will be holding up my end of the bargain in that.In the meantime, stay kool and keep 'er between the ditches! Oh, and sorry in advance for any typos - I'm shooting from the hip over here.-J
soli'd Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Do you really get opportunities to use that pickups/west side story analogy often?
JGravelin Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Not that often really, but I have explained it that way previously.Just wait until you hear the Charlies Angels analogy I've got cue'd up for Strat pickups!
veatch Posted October 15, 2014 Posted October 15, 2014 Oh, *pleeeease* tell me Jaclyn Smith is in the middle position...
BTMN Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Ummm, Yeah, what that guy posted! Josh and Veatch!
The Shark Posted October 16, 2014 Posted October 16, 2014 Oh, *pleeeease* tell me Jaclyn Smith is in the middle position...Surely, you jest! Brunette's in the "neck and bridge". Farrah in the middle. It seems intuitive!
soli'd Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I have another Shishkov Question:What is the consensus of the upper strap button placement on the Standard/Ultimate shape? Most of the Standards I see have the button located at the center seam of the neck heel or slightly offset from there. Some Gibbys have the button located on the upper "horn" (nub?), and I notice that all of Rick Nielsen's Standards have it in that location as well.What Would Mike Do?
cmatthes Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 If I recall correctly, Mike is positioning the upper strap button at the heel, where it is on Hamer Standards.I'm sure that a request could always be made to relocate it, but keep in mind that the form fit Shishkov TKL cases may not be designed for a strap button protruding from that area, and without modification, could wear/tear the case lining there.In the end, it is a pretty simple adjustment, and if you prefer the way the guitar hangs from a strap with the relocated button, it can't hurt to ask!
soli'd Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 I've never owned an explorer shape guitar, so I'm not sure what feels right. I've played explorers with the strap in both spots, but not enough to have any preference. Anyone have an opinion on how well one style hangs vs. the other? Looks like I need to hit a GC or something for a couple hrs and try to play a few to compare... they're gonna love me. cmatthes- you mentioned a TKL case... has one been selected? Maybe I missed it.
mrjamiam Posted November 13, 2014 Posted November 13, 2014 All will be revealed...when Mike's ready! So it's Mike that's not ready with the damned shirts already?
bubs_42 Posted November 14, 2014 Posted November 14, 2014 Don't get me going on the Swag Wagon again.
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