Why did Vernon Reid & Stevie Salas stop playing Hamers?

[Dasein]

... was this simply about endorsements? Simple dollars and cents? I've never been much moved by endorsements (as a consumer) and regard most of them with suspicion so I guess the economics don't make sense to me - but they must yes?

Was this the case here or did Hamer just not make the kind of guitars anymore that these guys wanted?

R.

[Studio Custom]

Hamer endoresemnets didn't pay, in fact, the artists had to pay cost for their instruments. If someone else comes along, offers your free guitars and a paycheck........

[Biz Prof]

Vernon was a looong-time endorser, so it might have simply been that his needs/desires changed. Or perhaps Jol/Hamer became less inclined to support Vernon with points, cash, or instruments (built to spec).

Never knew much about Stevie and still don't. Perhaps someone else here can share some facts/perspectives.

[jim777]

I know Hamer wouldn't make guitars with the specs Vernon wanted, that certainly didn't help. As to whether or not that was the last straw I couldn't say.

[Studio Custom]

I know Hamer wouldn't make guitars with the specs Vernon wanted, that certainly didn't help. As to whether or not that was the last straw I couldn't say.

Perhaps if Living Color had other hit songs, besides Cult of Personality, they would have. It's a business decision; how much time and effort do you exert to an artist that appears on the down slide? Especially when, you recently moved and reduced your production significantly, thus limiting your budget for such extravagances.

[MCChris]

Perhaps if Living Color had other hit songs, besides Cult of Personality, they would have. It's a business decision; how much time and effort do you exert to an artist that appears on the down slide? Especially when, you recently moved and reduced your production significantly, thus limiting your budget for such extravagances.

Yeah, Hamer turned all of their attention toward exploiting the grunge explosion: relentlessly spotlighting the fact that one of the genre's most iconic moments, the intro to "Jeremy," was played on a Hamer 12-string bass, then making sure Jeff Ament played a Hamer at all times, then outfitting all of the Pearl Jam guys with Hamers, then doing the same with all the Seattle bands.

Oh wait.....

[edgar_allan_poe]

^^^^^^ Oh *snap*

[JohnnyB]

Perhaps if Living Color had other hit songs, besides Cult of Personality, they would have. It's a business decision; how much time and effort do you exert to an artist that appears on the down slide? Especially when, you recently moved and reduced your production significantly, thus limiting your budget for such extravagances.

Yeah, Hamer turned all of their attention toward exploiting the grunge explosion: relentlessly spotlighting the fact that one of the genre's most iconic moments, the intro to "Jeremy," was played on a Hamer 12-string bass, then making sure Jeff Ament played a Hamer at all times, then outfitting all of the Pearl Jam guys with Hamers, then doing the same with all the Seattle bands.

...and that's why Hamer is such a household name today and the jewel of Fender's Kaman acquisition.

Oh wait.....

[Jem]

I know the blanket "No Floyd's" imposed in the late 90's lost them a couple of endorsee's for sure but Vernon persisted with his Hamer's long after there was any kind of deal, I think he went to Parker just because they were literally falling apart !

[cmatthes]

They did Floyds in the late '90s!

[Dasein]

I hate when artists change guitar brands if they are known for one, or when they retire iconic guitars.... Stevie Salas really made his sing and Vernon was never cooler than when he was playing hamer. Never got the infatuation with Steve Stevens.... I bought Hamer in spite of the fact Stevens used them....

[Biz Prof]

I hate when artists change guitar brands if they are known for one, or when they retire iconic guitars.... Stevie Salas really made his sing and Vernon was never cooler than when he was playing hamer. Never got the infatuation with Steve Stevens.... I bought Hamer in spite of the fact Stevens used them....

I never got the infatuation with Billy Idol, but I've gradually developed a healthy respect for Steve Stevens. As a lifelong DC Junior and Special fan, I found the SS signature model to be an attractive DC design.

[mathman]

Thought i saw something recent with Vernon playing his Hamer. Could have been an older clip I guess.

[Dasein]

I hate when artists change guitar brands if they are known for one, or when they retire iconic guitars.... Stevie Salas really made his sing and Vernon was never cooler than when he was playing hamer. Never got the infatuation with Steve Stevens.... I bought Hamer in spite of the fact Stevens used them....

I never got the infatuation with Billy Idol, but I've gradually developed a healthy respect for Steve Stevens. As a lifelong DC Junior and Special fan, I found the SS signature model to be an attractive DC design.

You've helped me understand the lineage here - never viewed the SS as a relative to the DC jr. -- I actually really like the look of those jr.s - the Hamers and the Gibsons - so the SS is kinda a DC Gibson that got outta hand! Makes sense now.

[Crimsontider]

Hamer endoresemnets didn't pay, in fact, the artists had to pay cost for their instruments. If someone else comes along, offers your free guitars and a paycheck........

Wow.

I am just now getting that Hamer was much more like Gibson and Fender back in the day than Jackson/Charvel, ESP and Kramer. Hamer didn't capitalize on the Super Strat 80's metal explosion like the could have, and that's there choice, it seems they were more 70's oriented and made classic guitars for less money and that was there niche and they were happy with it. They could have easily snagged a LA Metal God and had people beating down there door. As a matter of fact, Hamer actually had the advantage at the start of the metal explosion with really good early publicity from Def Leppard, Judas Priest, Billy Idol on MTV. And the name was perfect. But they kept their integrity through the entire 80's and early 90's, but Hamer could have been huge in the 80's.

If Hamer had put out the Diablo out in 1986 there would be a lot less Charvel Model series and BC Rich Gunslingers out there. It would have been huge for circuit type bands. Also making a Alder bodied strat, standard version, with the pointy headstock might have been a hit. Seems like metal speedsters wanted Alder and the pointed headstock on their higher priced guitars. Basically a strat body and a high quality neck for the tremolo.

This all just my perception.

[Jem]

They did Floyds in the late '90s!

Yeah Chris but as you know, only if he felt like it but I honestly know one ex endorsee who was told "no Floyd, take it or leave it" - so he left it.

[jim777]

In my opinion you got it completely right Cromsontider.

I know Hamer wouldn't make guitars with the specs Vernon wanted, that certainly didn't help. As to whether or not that was the last straw I couldn't say.

Perhaps if Living Color had other hit songs, besides Cult of Personality, they would have. It's a business decision; how much time and effort do you exert to an artist that appears on the down slide? Especially when, you recently moved and reduced your production significantly, thus limiting your budget for such extravagances.

You know "Cult" and the whole Vivid album was recorded on ESP guitars, right? Telling a guy "No boomerangs or custom inlays" when he is a faithful endorser, and one of a handful of recognizable ones at that was a stupid business decision IMHO. That definitely helped drive him away to Parker, definitely. I got the feeling it hurt him to hear but he did what every other endorsed artist would do, he went somewhere else and got over it. (And he still does play the YinYang guitar with the Roland pickup in it).

It was like Hamer made a conscious decision not to be the Hamer of the 80's anymore, when guitar exploded, and instead be a company that made doublecuts for old men or something. I still don't get it. Would Hamer be gone if they had continued making Californians with boomerangs and tried even a little to get them into the hands of famous guitarists? We'll never know but I think they'd still be around. Certainly there's be more used Californians around, and that would be a good thing in my opinion.

In the 80's Ibanez made splashy guitars for shredders - they still do and they are doing well.

In the 80's Jackson made splashy guitars for shredders - they still do and they are doing well.

In the 80's ESP made splashy guitars for shredders - they still do and they are doing well.

In the 80's Hamer made splashy guitars for shredders - they stopped. Maybe they didn't want to be like everyone else, and they at least partially succeeded in that everybody else who could play at that level in that game is still in business.

[Dasein]

I did not know Hamer did this ---- I left the continent in 1993 - a couple of years after getting my Cali (1990) and didn't really surface again until 2001 - was still underground well into the 2000's - so I missed basically everything between about 1993-2004. I just started downloading torrents of guitar mags from those missing years -- and as I look through them I go holy shit - did I ever miss a lot.

[MCChris]

You know "Cult" and the whole Vivid album was recorded on ESP guitars, right? Telling a guy "No boomerangs or custom inlays" when he is a faithful endorser, and one of a handful of recognizable ones at that was a stupid business decision IMHO. That definitely helped drive him away to Parker, definitely. I got the feeling it hurt him to hear but he did what every other endorsed artist would do, he went somewhere else and got over it. (And he still does play the YinYang guitar with the Roland pickup in it).

It was like Hamer made a conscious decision not to be the Hamer of the 80's anymore, when guitar exploded, and instead be a company that made doublecuts for old men or something. I still don't get it. Would Hamer be gone if they had continued making Californians with boomerangs and tried even a little to get them into the hands of famous guitarists? We'll never know but I think they'd still be around. Certainly there's be more used Californians around, and that would be a good thing in my opinion.

In the 80's Ibanez made splashy guitars for shredders - they still do and they are doing well.

In the 80's Jackson made splashy guitars for shredders - they still do and they are doing well.

In the 80's ESP made splashy guitars for shredders - they still do and they are doing well.

In the 80's Hamer made splashy guitars for shredders - they stopped. Maybe they didn't want to be like everyone else, and they at least partially succeeded in that everybody else who could play at that level in that game is still in business.

Spot on. You know Vernon was getting paid by ESP, so it speaks to the quality of Hamer that he would leave the freebies behind for the privilege of paying cost for his guitars.

[diablo175]

Never got the infatuation with Steve Stevens.... I bought Hamer in spite of the fact Stevens used them....

Always admired SS's playing, even with Idol. But his solo work that first appeared in a Guitar Player sound page really impressed me. His SS Hamer was appealing but not nearly as much as the Cali,Chap and Diablo.

[Dasein]

I've told this story before in in various stages - my local Hamer dealer in Vancouver (before I bought my Hamer) was staffed by a guy called Dom -- who basically looked like Steve Stevens - but a little less pretty (more male). He was a fierce Hamer devotee - and every time he said Hamer he paired it with the word fuckin'... it was "Fuckin' Hamers man - the best..." or "Why would you guy anything but a Fuckin' Hamer?" or "If you are a good player then you'd have a fuckin' Hamer - they are the fuckin' best".... Hilarious guy without trying to be hilarious.

There were pictures of Steve Stevens everywhere -- anyway -- I was downtown (in from the burbs) and getting the "Fuckin' Hamer" Sermon and he was like "Hey - Fuckin' Steve Stevens is coming by tomorrow - you should fuckin' come on down and fuckin' hang - we'll all drink and play some Fuckin' Hamers". I think I was 16 or so at the time and the idea both excited me but it also scared the shit out of me... I just couldn't see myself hanging with Steve Stevens and Dom (and whoever else was going to be there). So I didn't go -- probably missed a Fuckin' good time.

[Disturber]

In the 80's Ibanez made splashy guitars for shredders - they still do and they are doing well.

In the 80's Jackson made splashy guitars for shredders - they still do and they are doing well.

In the 80's ESP made splashy guitars for shredders - they still do and they are doing well.

In the 80's Hamer made splashy guitars for shredders - they stopped. Maybe they didn't want to be like everyone else, and they at least partially succeeded in that everybody else who could play at that level in that game is still in business.

They just grew up, like the rest of us, I guess. Huge respect for that!

I would not still be playing Hamer's if they'd continued to build the shredder Floyd stuff.

They continued to evolve and create some super fine models, and build guitars - way finer than what they did in the 80's. That is a legacy way larger than those other brands will leave behind.

[diablo175]

They just grew up, like the rest of us, I guess. Huge respect for that!

I would not still be playing Hamer's if they'd continued to build the shredder Floyd stuff.

They continued to evolve and create some super fine models, and build guitars - way finer than what they did in the 80's. That is a legacy way larger than those other brands will leave behind.

Really? I find those to be rather subjective perspectives. I can certainly accept that you might have a preference for certain genres of music and thus preferences for certain styles of guitars, as do I. But to assign a blanket judgement to 3 otherwise successful builders seems ill-advised. Especially considering Hamer's inability to perservere without shredders in their line up (in addition to several other factors). I have even greater respect for ESP, Ibanez and Jackson/Charvel for surviving on their predominantly un-evolved lines.

[Never2Late]

Um, I hate to tell you this, but many of "those Artists", including Vernon Reid, still have their Hamers in-inventory and they play them once in awhile. I was reading a recent article (few months ago) where Vernon was discussing the guitars he played on a new album coming-out, and he made-mention of one of his favorites used for the record - a custom Hamer Chap from his Living Colour days. Gary Hoey still has his custom Hamer (the 'Rainforest' guitar), but now that he's a Fender endorsee, you won't see his Hamer Daytonas on-stage anymore.

As for the statement that Hamer didn't customize to Vernon's specs - somehow I doubt that. I've seen some of his stage axes - totally wild, WTF graphics, tumbling boomers (when was THIS a 'standard option'???) custom pickups, etc. Since he was part of Hamer's advertising campaign, I'm sure he got compped/paid.....

[LucSulla]

I've told this story before in in various stages - my local Hamer dealer in Vancouver (before I bought my Hamer) was staffed by a guy called Dom -- who basically looked like Steve Stevens - but a little less pretty (more male). He was a fierce Hamer devotee - and every time he said Hamer he paired it with the word fuckin'... it was "Fuckin' Hamers man - the best..." or "Why would you guy anything but a Fuckin' Hamer?" or "If you are a good player then you'd have a fuckin' Hamer - they are the fuckin' best".... Hilarious guy without trying to be hilarious.

There were pictures of Steve Stevens everywhere -- anyway -- I was downtown (in from the burbs) and getting the "Fuckin' Hamer" Sermon and he was like "Hey - Fuckin' Steve Stevens is coming by tomorrow - you should fuckin' come on down and fuckin' hang - we'll all drink and play some Fuckin' Hamers". I think I was 16 or so at the time and the idea both excited me but it also scared the shit out of me... I just couldn't see myself hanging with Steve Stevens and Dom (and whoever else was going to be there). So I didn't go -- probably missed a Fuckin' good time.

I remember when there was one "Dom" with many faces... Going to local music stores after school back before GC-esque chains homogenized everything and when guitar rock still ruled the world (regardless of which flavor was currently "in").

Those were the fuckin' days.