Less Distortion?

[savethematches]

I'm a child of the 80's and love the ultra-crunchy Marshall tone. That being said, I just made a discovery. I hooked my trusty Behringer GX212 up to my PA speakers, each loaded with a 15 and a horn. Sounded like a fuzzed out ball of crap. I tweaked around with the eq settings as the amp is very finicky that way, but still couldn't get a tone I liked. Then I did the unthinkable, I turned the distortion down from 10 to 3. Wow! I couldn't believe the difference in tone. All of a sudden, my $200 amp and my $200 speakers were a killer stack! I also found that I was able to pull off some of my more complex (relatively speaking) licks and didn't miss the extra mush at all. Have I been doing things wrong all this time?

Discuss your experiences.

[Nuclear Wessel]

You didn't hook the speaker outputs of the amp right up to the PA speakers, did you? Full range PA speakers reproduce a far wider frequency range than a guitar cabinet. Plug the speaker outs of any amp, even the mighty Marshall Plexi, straight into a PA speaker, and it'll sound like "a fuzzed out ball of crap".

However, I have been using less and less gain over the years. If you listen closely to the guitar tones even of some of the metal guitar gods of the 80's, not all of them used huge amounts of gain. George Lynch, Yngwie Malmsteen, and others didn't totally fuzz out their tone with lots of gain.

How they got that sustain without massive gain, now that's a secret I've been trying to figure out. A really transparent sounding compressor? Sheer volume?

[Jeff R]

Seems like I read an interview somewhere with Reinhold Bogner and he said something to the extent that the enemy of rock tone was excessive gain. I've only been around one Bogner (Cajun Boy's Shiva driving a Marshall 4x12) and while it's an asskicker of a hard rock amp, it's not over the top on gain by any stretch.

NW's right on with his statement about the 80s metalgods too. I've been taming back on my JCM 900's gain lately (formerly 15-20 to now more like 10-12) and using my Boss Super Overdrive more as a harmonics enhancer, and I've have been pleased with the results.

[Gabe]

In my Line 6 Ax2 (which I rarely use nowadays) I have noticed that the sound of the rectumfrier model is best with the gain at 25 to 30 (of 100). With more gain there's a bit more distortion but the sound also gets softer and has less power. I do not know whether this would be the same in the real Mesa amp, as I've never played one.

Gabe

[Guest JackButler]

I practice the majority of my technique drills/mechanicals without any gain whatsoever or completely unplugged. I usually won't add any gain until things get around 160 bpm or so. A lot of times I hear guys using tons of gain without any control.

Recently I had a discussion with Steve Blucher at DiMarzio...we were going over some sounds in my head and such for a couple of pups he's making for me. We got on the subject of various players and tone vs. control. The subject of Vai and the Evo pups came up and he was telling me how he felt that most guys sounded horrible when using this pup because of all the weird harmonic things it does in the upper end and how it was a control/technique issue.

I also find that a lot of times, depending on the amp, gear, fx, etc.,,,settings that work at practice/bedroom levels don't work at gig volumes. Here is where, for me, the eq section is important. Specifically mids or rather not sucking them completely out. Although this, like all discussions of tone, is completely subjective.

[SteveB]

is your Behringer a modelling amp? everytime I've hooked a modelling amp or processor to go direct or record I've had to dial down the gain when compared to driving guitar speakers.

[Tres Aardvarks]

Recently I had a discussion with Steve Blucher at DiMarzio...we were going over some sounds in my head and such for a couple of pups he's making for me.

OK, that is damn cool! Willing to give any more details, Kev?

BTW, I remember reading a bunch of articles where guys like Vai encouraged people to practice without gain so they could really hear what they were doing.

[Scottcrud]

No, more distortion...Now!

[Jimbilly]

I generally like less while playing with a band, but more when it's just me in the basement. My tone seems to not get as lost in the mix when I'm using lower gain.

[straightblues]

As I get older, I use less and less distortion. When you use less distortion you need better guitars, pickups and amps. With my new Hamer I have the first two. My Black face Fender Deluxe and Bassman take care of the amp part.

[black magic]

The more distortion the better. I actually like the scooped-buzzsaw sound that alot of people hate. Jack.

[El Kabong]

I *always* put tin foil in front of my speakers. It's my 'bumble beast' tone

[tafkathundernotes]

The guitarist in my band uses as little as possible. Sometimes not enough for my taste. I do remember reading somewhere that too much distortion causes "listener fatigue." That's some psychoacoustic term to describe the effect of music that seems loud - even when it's not.

[jettster]

Yes. I still use a good bit but, not too long ago it was always dimed. These days if I'm going for serious distortion it might get to 7. It seems like the tone punches through better with lower settings too.

[Craig S]

I use a lot less than I used too and thnk the sound is much larger. Every time I've seen Midnight Oil they have had a huge sound and they don't use much distortion at all. I become a big fan of less.

[Guitarseh]

I think its even more important a factor when recording. Somehow, guitars just sound alot heavier if you roll back the gain a point or two. Maybe its something to do with how the sound wave interacts with the microphone.

Just my 2 cents

MarkB

[formula73]

To me it seems like too much distortion in a band situation gets lost the same way you can hear tape/record hiss when it's quiet but when the music is on you can't. I had a buddy who dimed the gain all the time and I thought his tone was just fuzzy. Not like a fuzz, just fuzzy. Didn't cut. I played the same guitar (mine)with the same amp(mine) and same pedal(his), cut the distortion down to about 3, and cut through like a knife. Somewhere between album Angus and live Angus.

edited for redundancy

[savethematches]

My Behringer isn't the modeling version. I picked it up on sale right before the new ones came out. I did run directly from my powered speaker outs to the PA cabs. I could go from the emulated line out into my Crown amp and then to the speakers. Do you think that would sound better? I was getting a pretty Angus-like tone the way I did it though.

[Michael_]

I'm using a Dimarzio Steve's Special pickup in my Centaura. It has scooped mids, with lots of highs and lows. It seems like it would be a metal/distortion pickup, but it has kind of the opposite effect- you can run all kinds of distortion on your amp, and still get a clear, cutting sound that brings out the properties of the guitar. It's really showed me how crappy my fast playing is, and helped me improve a good bit. Less distortion can be a very good thing, and I too have started to cut back.

[BLuesBuster]

Less distortion (sometimes in the past an anathema) is getting to be more palatable lately. I found that I already had a different level of playing when using less distortion. At first it seemed silly - even if somewhat frightening - but less distortion allows me to hear myself better. The amps respond better and seem to be more versatile, and my playing has gained articulation.

Distortion rules, but moderate leves are the icing on the cake.

[Guest JackButler]

Recently I had a discussion with Steve Blucher at DiMarzio...we were going over some sounds in my head and such for a couple of pups he's making for me.

OK, that is damn cool! Willing to give any more details, Kev?

BTW, I remember reading a bunch of articles where guys like Vai encouraged people to practice without gain so they could really hear what they were doing.

I had a meeting with Steve at Namm and it went really well...started out as business and ended up talking about everything under the sun that was music/guitar related.

He asked me what sounds I heard in my head and what model pups were my faves.

Lately its been the Super 3, the Tone Zone and the Evo. (the dreaded JB is also a fave, but they seem inconsistent from unit to unit. Some JB's sound great...some not so great.)

So those three models are kind of the baseline for what I'm working on having Steve conjure up. Then we started talking about other player's tones that I like.

John Sykes' neck pup tone and sustain came up, as did Vai's tones and then we sat and listen to a few tracks off of my demo and discussed from there.

I like the girth and chunk of the Super 3 and the vowel wah thing that the TZ does, but I also like the quirky harmonics that you can pull out of the Evo's, but it has to clean up with the volume rolled back or when split in combo with a single coil for tighter, funk clean things. Kind of like wanting your cake and eating it too.

So that's really where we're at right now. Just kicking around ideas.

Steve was really coolto talk and listen too..he even called over Andy Timmons and dragged him into the conversation. He had us both cracking up with his take on various players and stuff.

A quick note about the Super 3...its available, but never listed in the catalogs. It was never really suppose to be available...it was a one off thing that they originally made for the HM "Strat" guitars (think Greg Howe)...Fender called them and needed a pup quick..seems they waited until the last moment and couldn't find anything they were happy with..so the Super 3 was kind of a rush job. Its as loud and hot a pup as the Evo, but without that high end craziness thats so hard to control for some at loud volumes. Only thing is that its hard to balance out with single coils when picking a set to load into a guitar.

Sorry about the hijack..just wanted to make sure I was thorough in my answer.

[jwhitcomb3]

I generally like less while playing with a band, but more when it's just me in the basement. My tone seems to not get as lost in the mix when I'm using lower gain.

I generally like less while playing with a band, but more when it's just me in the basement.  My tone seems to not get as lost in the mix when I'm using lower gain.

Yep, that's the key for me. When I started mixing my band's recordings I found that the more distortion I had the flatter the recording sounded.

Listen to classic rock from the early and mid 70's and the guitar tones were much cleaner than today. And they rocked just as hard.

Heavy distortion with tons of bass sounds great in the bedroom but is much harder to work into a mix.

I use heavy distortion like a change-up, not my regular pitch. I think it's more effective that way and doesn't lead to listener fatigue. Nothing more boring than listening to a band with a wide blast of fuzz from start to finish.

-Jonathan