PSA: 1978 Gibson Les Paul Custom In White At DGS

[crunchee]

No affiliation.  The body's mahogany with a maple top according to the item description, no mention of it being 'pancake' construction or not; maple neck with volute, aged and distressed the old-fashioned way, early-ish Seymour Duncan HBs installed, 10.2 lbs.:

https://www.davesguitar.com/collections/used-electrics/products/les-paul-custom-78

[cmatthes]

A ‘78 shouldn’t have the pancake body.

[Dave Scepter]

11 minutes ago, cmatthes said:

A ‘78 shouldn’t have the pancake body.

Actually up to 79 🖖👽

[atomicwash]

10 lbs hurts my back! Yowza!

[cmatthes]

I had a ‘78 without a pancake body.  Hmmm…

[Dave Scepter]

6 hours ago, cmatthes said:

I had a ‘78 without a pancake body.  Hmmm…

[Ham Rex]

12 hours ago, cmatthes said:

A ‘78 shouldn’t have the pancake body.

Was there an advantage to having a pancake body to either Gibson like cost of manufacturing or the player?

Or was it just a cosmetic, "looks cool" factor?

[Ham Rex]

2 minutes ago, Ham Rex said:

Was there an advantage to having a pancake body to either Gibson like cost of manufacturing or the player?

Or was it just a cosmetic, "looks cool" factor?

And a couple of clicks I got my own answer...

"The expression "pancake body" actually refers to a body made of a thin layer of maple sandwiched between two slabs of mahogany, with a maple cap. The grain of the maple was placed at 90 degrees to that of the mahogany. The "pancake"-like layers are clearly visible when looking at the edge of the guitar. This process is also known as "crossbanding", and was done for strength and resistance to cupping/warping. Crossbanding was phased out by 1977."

[Dave Scepter]

40 minutes ago, Ham Rex said:

Was there an advantage to having a pancake body to Gibson like cost of manufacturing 

Pancake or "ply" is cheaper than thick "solid" pieces 

[Eli]

I've got a '79 with the pancake and maple neck.  It's about as heavy as a neutron star.

[LucSulla]

I've got a 78 with a solid body and maple neck.  Weighs 9 lb 8 oz. 

[crunchee]

The reason why I mentioned the 'pancake body' (or lack thereof) is because of this bit of trivia:

https://www.premierguitar.com/artists/guitarists/randy-rhoads-guitars

https://www.themusiczoo.com/blogs/news/gibson-randy-rhoads-1974-les-paul-custom-announced

Personally, I'd prefer a solid chunk of mahogany rather than the mahogany/maple/mahogany sandwich for the back, but others may not just because of the Rhoads connection.  Plus, the one piece back version is probably cheaper too, due to the so-called 'collectibility'/'celebrity' factor (or lack of).  But to each their own!  

Edited to add:  Maybe Murkat knows something about why Gibson was apparently making (or sitting on in storage?) both body versions at roughly the same time?

[Eli]

6 minutes ago, crunchee said:

The reason why I mentioned the 'pancake body' (or lack thereof) is because of this bit of trivia:

https://www.premierguitar.com/artists/guitarists/randy-rhoads-guitars

https://www.themusiczoo.com/blogs/news/gibson-randy-rhoads-1974-les-paul-custom-announced

Personally, I'd prefer a solid chunk of mahogany rather than the mahogany/maple/mahogany sandwich for the back, but others may not just because of the Rhoads connection.  Plus, the one piece back version is probably cheaper too, due to the so-called 'collectibility'/'celebrity' factor (or lack of).  But to each their own!  

Edited to add:  Maybe Murkat knows something about why Gibson was apparently making (or sitting on in storage?) both body versions at roughly the same time?

Generally, I prefer a single piece of mahogany too, but there is something tighter and brighter with all that maple (and glue) involved.  Very different feel and sound from a 1 pc standard (not the top) I have.  Thanks for the Premier guitar Rhoads retrospective! 

[crunchee]

4 minutes ago, Eli said:

Generally, I prefer a single piece of mahogany too, but there is something tighter and brighter with all that maple (and glue) involved.  Very different feel and sound from a 1 pc standard (not the top) I have.  Thanks for the Premier guitar Rhoads retrospective! 

Actually, the maple in the body 'sandwich' isn't all that thick, maybe just a little thicker than a veneer.  Maybe.  The carved top on either version is still maple though.

This might be the same reference that Ham Rex used, though all I can see on his entry are the highlighted words 'pancake body' and 'crossbanding'...everything else on his entry shows up on my computer as blank screen, so here it possibly is again:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Gibson_Les_Paul_pancake_bodies

[Dave Scepter]

Love my Norlins... and dig the built in winders on the tuners 🖖👽

[Eli]

2 minutes ago, crunchee said:

Actually, the maple in the body 'sandwich' isn't all that thick, maybe just a little thicker than a veneer.  Maybe.  The carved top on either version is still maple though.

This might be the same reference that Ham Rex used, though all I can see on his entry are the highlighted words 'pancake body' and 'crossbanding'...everything else on his entry shows up on my computer as blank screen, so here it possibly is again:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Gibson_Les_Paul_pancake_bodies

For sure, re: the maple thickness.  Maybe I'm just noticing the maple neck's influence.  Either way, it's different beast than all mahogany LPs (custom or standard) that I've played.

[Eli]

8 minutes ago, Dave Scepter said:

Love my Norlins... and dig the built in winders on the tuners 🖖👽

I see you, Scepter.

[Ham Rex]

1 hour ago, Dave Scepter said:

Love my Norlins... and dig the built in winders on the tuners 🖖👽

I love the picture captured on the TV behind the guitars! Was that intentional!?!

[LucSulla]

I mean, if we’re showing off boat anchors…

 

 

[Dave Scepter]

1 hour ago, Ham Rex said:

I love the picture captured on the TV behind the guitars! Was that intentional!?!

Ha!.. no sir... I'm trying to remember what that image was from... kinda looks like a scene from "Our man Flint" or maybe Star Trek... 🤣

I bought this one cuz I'm a huge Montrose fan

[hamerhead]

I'll play:

10+ pounds. After 40-some years of slinging that old pig, is it any wonder my back always hurts?

[kizanski]

[joshoowah]

I know there's an article referenced here that says the reason for the cross-grained pancake bodies was to "add strength" and "prevent cupping," but I've never seen a piece of mahogany on a non-pancake Les Paul cup or break, so I always assumed it had to do with price and reliable sourcing of single-piece, full thickness mahogany of that thickness. As a Les Paul lover, I never really cared; I still lust after a Goldtop LP Deluxe with mini humbuckers, and have ever since I started playing and first played a used pancake example when I was 14 and then saw Stone Gossard rocking one in Mother Lovebone, Temple of the Dog, and Pearl Jam. It may be different, but I don't consider it a lesser guitar. It won't sound like a '59, but it will sound great in the right hands.

It used to be that most collectors would only pay a premium for a Lester with a single piece mahogany back and mahogany neck with no volute, because it's closer to the iconic '50s examples, but now there is appreciation and nostalgia for the maple neck and pancake examples because of the iconic players and recordings made with them from the '70s-90s. They'll never command '50s prices, but they aren't as cheap as they used to be. It's different, but not lesser. I still hope to add a Goldtop Deluxe to the family someday, pancake or not. I'm not a "purist," in that regard.

[Steve Haynie]

I have tried out Les Pauls with both types of bodies over the years, and there have been individual characteristics to almost all of them.  They either sound and feel great or they don't.  Many of my posts here refer to a friend's Les Paul with all the wrong features that is a great Les Paul. 

Tommy Henriksen has a korina SG with a pancake body.  It must be a custom order.  I tried to get good photos of it, but none of them were good enough to even keep. 

[LucSulla]

16 minutes ago, joshoowah said:

It used to be that most collectors would only pay a premium for a Lester with a single piece mahogany back and mahogany neck with no volute, because it's closer to the iconic '50s examples, but now there is appreciation and nostalgia for the maple neck and pancake examples because of the iconic players and recordings made with them from the '70s-90s. They'll never command '50s prices, but they aren't as cheap as they used to be. It's different, but not lesser. I still hope to add a Goldtop Deluxe to the family someday, pancake or not. I'm not a "purist," in that regard.

I didn't know anything about Norlin vs. pre-Norlin specs when I bought mine. Out of pure luck, I ended up with one under 10 pounds. 

What I will say is that, after gigging that guitar a lot for the first 10 years I had it, it was a tank. I'm sure the arguments about to what degree having a three-piece maple vs a one-piece mahogany neck and reducing the back angle makes in the tone of the guitar will go on forever, but they are sure as shit stronger. I've had things happen to that guitar that would have easily turned a one-piece neck into a two-piece neck. 

The weight thing I absolutely get, though boat anchor seemed the trend in the 70s generally for all them sustains. The necks changes though - I think those were, from an engineering standpoint, pretty justifiable from the perspective of a dude who was using a Les Paul as a workhorse but hoped to not break the headstock off. 

The 82 Natural I have above is a transition year. It has the three-piece neck but no volute. Also had some weirdo pickups in it - Gibson not quite Shaws with Schaller bobbins.