Mogami, Baby!

[JohnnyB]

I've had a Spectraflex cable for a long time and have been happy with its balance of good sound and rugged construction. Unfortunately there's something about Spectraflex plugs that my G&Ls just don't like--any other cable sounds OK and makes a good connection but my Spectraflex cuts in and out with the G&Ls. Works fine with the Hamers.

Therefore, with my new USA G&L bass and Eden Nemesis combo, an MSRP $3K+ rig, it fell to my backup cable to connect the bass to the amp. And it's umm.... er... a Peavey.

Yesterday I was cruising music stores to kill time (a dangerous thing to do) when it hit me that I have a hi-rez bass plugged into a hi-rez amp. My audiophile experience tells me that means it rates a hi-rez cable. I could have gotten a Monster Bass or the new Fender Platinum Premium, but I remembered Poe's post a few months ago and decided to try the Mogami. As premium cables go it's pretty reasonable--$50 for an 18-footer with gold plugs.

Upon plug-in without any settling-in period, the Mogami revealed just how much musicality the cheap cables strip out of the signal transfer. I was expecting the Mogami to have sharper transients and more clarity and detail, but what it provided was something unexpected and of a much higher quality of signal transfer. This past week I've been tweaking this and that on the bass and amp to try to get a warmer more acoustic sound. With the Mogami I found that the ASAT had been producing those sounds all along, but the Peavey cord was adding an edgy gritty glare to the sound.

The Mogami preserves and transfers the harmonic richness of your instrument. You hear your initial plucking transient followed by the swell, bloom, and fade of each note and chord as you would with an acoustic instrument. There is a harmonic richness you didn't know your instrument was producing. At the same time, lower bass notes are full and clear, less boomy and "woofy." It adds clarity without harshness, brightness, or edginess. I suspect that electric instruments won't sound as "electric" with this cable.

I can predict that there will be the typical detractors to this post--you can't hear the difference in a noisy bar, Jimi used a cheap self-coiling cord, blah-blah-blah.

But we're here because we like Hamers, which means we can discern the differences in a quality musical product, and I'll tell you this: If you have a Hamer Improv, Newport, Talledega, Monaco, or SuperPro--or have swapped out your garden variety SDs for Custom Shop, Rio Grande, Fralin, Lollar, or WD--plugged into a Carr, Dr. Z, Top Hat, Matchless, Mesa, or similar, or vintage Fender or Ampeg, you owe it to yourself to try a Mogami to transfer the signal from your hi-rez guit to your hi-rez amp. Ditto if you do studio work; the Mogami should be your starting point. For a bass player it's the price of one or two sets of strings.

I will be shamelessly adding to my own thread here when I get around to trying the Mogami with a Newport, G&L ASAT Classic Semihollow, and Gretsch Synchromatic fitted with genuine NOS Johnny Smith floating New Yorker mini-bucker. In the meantime, it's absolutely synergistic with my basses.

[JGale]

[HSB0531]

If the cable works with everything else, it sounds like the cables' plugs are a hair under 0.250" in diameter.

The G&L should have a standard American made switchcraft a 1/4" jack.

The sleeve on the Spectraflex plug is probably making intermittent contact.

Also, if it's making poor contact on the ground, that would degrade the sound quality.

[sonic1974]

Does the Mogwai cable fit well in the Hamer input jacks? I'm having problems with both my Hamers cutting out, and I think I need to get better fitting cables.

[HSB0531]

Sonic:

It's not the cable, it's the plugs.

What kind are they?

Can you unscrew the shell and take a look at the inside for a make?

Correct Switchcraft part # is 280.

If it says "made in china" it's off spec, and that's the problem.

[sonic1974]

Sonic:

It's not the cable, it's the plugs.

What kind are they?

Can you unscrew the shell and take a look at the inside for a make?

Correct Switchcraft part # is 280.

If it says "made in china" it's off spec, and that's the problem.

Hmm...I'll check it out when I get a chance. Thanks for the tip!

[murkat]

welcome to the mogami club! after many many years of proco and others.. the mogami''s were quiet the wakeup in tone.

[Ethan]

mogami makes great stuff, and is industry standard for studio cabling. however I kind of disagree with their pricing (along with every other cable manufacturer really), $150 for one of their new "platinum" series cables that costs them about $9 to make is extortion to me.

[JohnnyB]

mogami makes great stuff, and is industry standard for studio cabling. however I kind of disagree with their pricing (along with every other cable manufacturer really), $150 for one of their new "platinum" series cables that costs them about $9 to make is extortion to me.

If that's true, then a $15 cable must cost about 90 cents to make -- and sounds like it.

How do you know what they cost to make?

[edgar_allan_poe]

$150 for one of their new "platinum" series cables that costs them about $9 to make is extortion to me.

Maybe...have you tried one?

Anyway, that isn't the cable we are talking about. the one I bought (and JB here bought) was their Gold series and it priced in at $44 for me. the difference in sound was really shocking. We are not talking subtle nuances here, the difference was painfully obvious.

Tip: If the Guitar Center around you has been around a while, it is very possible that they still have old stock of the Mogami Gold series cable. the only difference between the new cable and old cable is the packaging. the new stuff comes in a plastic anti theft unit and the old stuff has a simple folded cardboard hangar. I found a bunch of the old ones with the old prices of $44 still on them. When I went to the counter the tried to charge me the new price of $55. When I pointed out the price on the packaging, they changed it and I walked out with brand new Mogamis.

On a side note, I just got done doing some gear trading and part of the trade was a pair of new in box 20' Evidence Audio Lyric cables and a 15' Solid Cable Arc Ultra. I suspect that the difference between these and the Mogamis will be subtle but you never know. I will let you guys know when they come in.

[specialk]

I've had a Spectraflex cable for a long time and have been happy with its balance of good sound and rugged construction. Unfortunately there's something about Spectraflex plugs that my G&Ls just don't like--any other cable sounds OK and makes a good connection but my Spectraflex cuts in and out with the G&Ls. Works fine with the Hamers.

Therefore, with my new USA G&L bass and Eden Nemesis combo, an MSRP $3K+ rig, it fell to my backup cable to connect the bass to the amp. And it's umm.... er... a Peavey.

Yesterday I was cruising music stores to kill time (a dangerous thing to do) when it hit me that I have a hi-rez bass plugged into a hi-rez amp. My audiophile experience tells me that means it rates a hi-rez cable. I could have gotten a Monster Bass or the new Fender Platinum Premium, but I remembered Poe's post a few months ago and decided to try the Mogami. As premium cables go it's pretty reasonable--$50 for an 18-footer with gold plugs.

Upon plug-in without any settling-in period, the Mogami revealed just how much musicality the cheap cables strip out of the signal transfer. I was expecting the Mogami to have sharper transients and more clarity and detail, but what it provided was something unexpected and of a much higher quality of signal transfer. This past week I've been tweaking this and that on the bass and amp to try to get a warmer more acoustic sound. With the Mogami I found that the ASAT had been producing those sounds all along, but the Peavey cord was adding an edgy gritty glare to the sound.

The Mogami preserves and transfers the harmonic richness of your instrument. You hear your initial plucking transient followed by the swell, bloom, and fade of each note and chord as you would with an acoustic instrument. There is a harmonic richness you didn't know your instrument was producing. At the same time, lower bass notes are full and clear, less boomy and "woofy." It adds clarity without harshness, brightness, or edginess. I suspect that electric instruments won't sound as "electric" with this cable.

I can predict that there will be the typical detractors to this post--you can't hear the difference in a noisy bar, Jimi used a cheap self-coiling cord, blah-blah-blah.

But we're here because we like Hamers, which means we can discern the differences in a quality musical product, and I'll tell you this: If you have a Hamer Improv, Newport, Talledega, Monaco, or SuperPro--or have swapped out your garden variety SDs for Custom Shop, Rio Grande, Fralin, Lollar, or WD--plugged into a Carr, Dr. Z, Top Hat, Matchless, Mesa, or similar, or vintage Fender or Ampeg, you owe it to yourself to try a Mogami to transfer the signal from your hi-rez guit to your hi-rez amp. Ditto if you do studio work; the Mogami should be your starting point. For a bass player it's the price of one or two sets of strings.

I will be shamelessly adding to my own thread here when I get around to trying the Mogami with a Newport, G&L ASAT Classic Semihollow, and Gretsch Synchromatic fitted with genuine NOS Johnny Smith floating New Yorker mini-bucker. In the meantime, it's absolutely synergistic with my basses.

What he said!

[JohnnyB]

$150 for one of their new "platinum" series cables that costs them about $9 to make is extortion to me.

Maybe...have you tried one?

Anyway, that isn't the cable we are talking about. the one I bought (and JB here bought) was their Gold series and it priced in at $44 for me. the difference in sound was really shocking. We are not talking subtle nuances here, the difference was painfully obvious.

That's my point exactly. This isn't "chasing after the point of diminishing returns" better. It is clearly better for $20 more than your current cable. It may re-define how you hear your instruments as it did for me. Since the original post I've tried out the Newport, G&L ASAT Classic, and Gretsch Synchro with floating Johnny Smith pickup into the Top Hat Club Deluxe. Whereas I previously thought there were persistent harsh edges on all three of these guitars as played into the "no place to hide" Top Hat, the Mogami cable has shown them all to be sweet and harmonically rich.

I always felt that--given the quality of the pickup--the Gretsch jazzbo should have sounded more like a jazz box, but it had thin and reedy sounds in places. Now it sounds like a pretty nice jazz box, with a consistent tone throughout, a very nice singing voice, and that maple midrange "pop" you get with a good archtop tone. Furthermore, the Johnny Smith can cop an acoustic sound to compete with piezos, and might be a touch more refined. You could easily use this f-hole laminated maple archtop in an electro-acoustic folk trio.

I've been using, evaluating, swapping, and installing high end cables in my stereo and home theater systems for over 20 years. I'm familiar with the incremental improvements you typically get with oxygen free copper vs. long grain crystal vs. monocrystal, or one configuration topology over another, and the upsides and downsides of vinyl, cloth, polyethylene, and Teflon dielectric. What's truly amazing about the Mogami Gold series is that--at the entry-level price for premium cable--it rewards that modest expenditure with a sound quality more like what you'd expect three-fourths the way up the cost scale. It's not a little improvement here and there in clarity and articulation, it has an overall sophisticated, well-ordered presentation of subtle and complex waveforms and harmonic structures that normally get lost in cable at this price. I did not expect a redefinition of my instruments' timbres from a $50 cable.

[BTMN]

I've been convinced since I bought one the day after Poe posted about his experiance.

<---Proud owner of 2 Mogami 18 footers and a 3 foot Gold Series cables.

Life IS Good!

[gorch]

How do they compare to Vovox and Monster cables?

[edgar_allan_poe]

How do they compare to Vovox and Monster cables?

Couldn't tell you, as I have never used those.

[Monacosis]

How do they compare to Vovox and Monster cables?

long-time Mogami Gold user. imo, Mogami is superior to the Monsters i have tried, but i prefer a shorter Vovox for my gtr > board line. the Mogami is the board > amp cable *after the buffer*.

mike

[specialk]

and a 15' Solid Cable Arc Ultra. I suspect that the difference between these and the Mogamis will be subtle but you never know. I will let you guys know when they come in.

Love my MG, but I'm interested in the Solid Cable Arc Ultra. I've read about them but never tried one. Let us know what you think of them, especially when compared to the MG.

Thanks!

[Armitage]

It amazes me when people argue cables don't make a difference, I can only imagine they've never tried them, or the rest of their gear sucks so much tone they can't help.

Mogami and Canare are killer cables and really don't cost very much if you look around.

http://bayoucables.com/

So cheap they're not worth the bother to do yourself.

[pesocaster]

I'm calling Bull $#!+!!!! ...... we better get together so you can prove this.... Cheers JB!

[KH Guitar Freak]

No bullshit, I believe you, after trying some Evidence Audio cable myself...

Now I have my whole rig wired up with Evidence Audio Lyric HG cables, with the speaker cable being their Siren IIs. All I need now is to get some patch cables done with EA Lyric HGs and Neutrik plugs, should be done in a few days...

[jwhitcomb3]

[Ethan]

Here's some links to supplies...

http://www.redco.com/shopdisplayproducts.a...nstrument+Cable

http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=837

My $9 estimate was an off the top of my head guess, but I have worked selling this stuff for years and I know what these $50-$100 cables cost at least for dealers, and you can get a rough estimate how much less than that they cost to make for the manufacturers...with respect to the dealers here I am not going to post those prices.

I'm not trying to stir the pot or start an argument, I wholeheartedly agree that cables are a super important part of any musician's sound and that you get what you pay for-a cheap cable is gonna sound like a cheap cable, especially through good equipment. I just got a class A, 20-watt handwired amp and the difference you hear between something like two different cables (even when compared to my mesa/boogie) is astounding. I just think that people can trick themselves into thinking that they should get a $150 cable versus a $50 when the difference might not be so great, and the cost of making the thing in the first place is substantially lower. I guess this is true of any industry though.

[jwhitcomb3]

Here's some links to supplies...

http://www.redco.com/shopdisplayproducts.a...nstrument+Cable

http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=837

My $9 estimate was an off the top of my head guess, but I have worked selling this stuff for years and I know what these $50-$100 cables cost at least for dealers, and you can get a rough estimate how much less than that they cost to make for the manufacturers...with respect to the dealers here I am not going to post those prices.

I'm not trying to stir the pot or start an argument, I wholeheartedly agree that cables are a super important part of any musician's sound and that you get what you pay for-a cheap cable is gonna sound like a cheap cable, especially through good equipment. I just got a class A, 20-watt handwired amp and the difference you hear between something like two different cables (even when compared to my mesa/boogie) is astounding. I just think that people can trick themselves into thinking that they should get a $150 cable versus a $50 when the difference might not be so great, and the cost of making the thing in the first place is substantially lower. I guess this is true of any industry though.

For sure, you want a cable that is made well, has good connectivity, is durable and passes a floor capacitance and resistance threshold. Past that and I've yet to see lab test results showing any difference in output signal waveforms or frequency response, or any articles that don't describe perceived differences in squishy, emotional language.

Once you get past the cheap crap, it doesn't make a difference.

-Jonathan

[JohnnyB]

I'm calling Bull $#!+!!!! ...... we better get together so you can prove this.... Cheers JB!

Bring it on. I wanna jam with you with my new bass and amp anyway.

The difference is sufficient to make me wonder how many people are swapping strings and pickups at a fever pace when the fundamental problem is raggedy-ass signal transfer from guitar to amp. This cable completely cures a persistent midrange glare I had with at least three guitars plugged into the Top Hat Club Deluxe.

The Mogami Gold may not be as roadworthy as a Spectraflex, but it definitely sounds more refined.

Here's some links to supplies...

http://www.redco.com/shopdisplayproducts.a...nstrument+Cable

http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=837

The wholesale raw materials for an 18-foot Mogami Gold instrument cable is $17.70. The $52.95 MSRP is therefore a good value. The general rule of thumb is that the target retail price is four times the cost of manufacturing. The first doubling pays for the the materials, facilities, labor, utilities, other mfg. materials and supplies (e.g., solder, soldering irons, pkg. mt'ls, etc.) and the second doubling absorbs shipping, warehousing, marketing, distributing, etc. By that reckoning the 18' Mogami Gold should cost about $70.

Similarly, a 20-foot Mogami Platinum cable with Neutrik Silent Connectors has a wholesale materials cost of nearly $63 for a $145 final product. This is even less markup by percentage than the Gold series.

... I just think that people can trick themselves into thinking that they should get a $150 cable versus a $50 when the difference might not be so great, and the cost of making the thing in the first place is substantially lower. I guess this is true of any industry though.

The original post was about a $50 cable vs. $15-20 cable. It's not about $150 cables. Mogami Gold stands above any other $50 cable I know of, and makes the $30 difference over garden variety cables insignificant.

I also acknowledge that if you have an Asian instrument with their murky pickups driving a $200 amp, you may not hear a difference, or you won't like the difference you hear. But if you have handmade gear such as a Hamer USA (let alone Warwick, Mike Lull, Huber, Anderson, etc.), you should be using at least a Mogami Gold.

Besides, GC, MF, my local American Music, and many others have 15-30 day return periods, so it's a no-risk proposition.

[jujisque]

How much do the quality of effects pedals and the cables you use to connect them come into play here? If I get a good quality 18' cable and then have runn-of-the-mill cables on my pedalboard, will I hear any difference at all? Or, if I have Boss pedals, does that cancel out anything gained by a good cable?