What do you think are the ingredients for a successful cover band?

[HamerHokie]

As my seven year participation in a cover band draws to a close, I'm looking to gain wisdom from failure.*

My thinking now - here are the top ingredients (some of these are genre-dependent):

1. Excellent vocals - three part harmony minimum

1.a. A market - people willing to come out to see your kind of music - and the ability to tap that market

2. 'The Look' for your genre

3. Credibility in your genre (in other words, you don't expect to see 60 year olds playing System of Down)

.

.

6. Deliver a great experience (sound mix, volume, etc)

.

.

.

.

15. Great musical chops

EDITED TO ADD - Charismatic Front Man/Woman belongs up there in the Top 3 I think.

*acknowledging that there are things out of your control, like the economy, nimrod bar owners, etc

[elduave]

I wouldn't say you guys where a failure.

First thing that comes to mind from the thread title is having a charismatic front-person. These days, it seems you have to have a "party MC" type with some level of attractiveness to get the crowd drinking/girls loose. This would be my top ingredient for cover band success.

From your list, I have heard from one of my current "project-mates" that "people love the harmonies", so I agree there, market is obvious, look less important (unless your fronting-see above), credibility ties in to look. You can be older but look hip-ish and play "younger" music.

Sound (and lights-people like a show) and chops are important, but lower on the list (unless you're a tribute band, maybe).

[HamerHokie]

I wouldn't say you guys where a failure.

First thing that comes to mind from the thread title is having a charismatic front-person. These days, it seems you have to have a "party MC" type with some level of attractiveness to get the crowd drinking/girls loose. This would be my top ingredient for cover band success.

From your list, I have heard from one of my current "project-mates" that "people love the harmonies", so I agree there, market is obvious, look less important (unless your fronting-see above), credibility ties in to look. You can be older but look hip-ish and play "younger" music.

Sound (and lights-people like a show) and chops are important, but lower on the list (unless you're a tribute band, maybe).

Yeah, I remembered 'front person' at the last minute.

I think we were a failure ultimately because the last couple of years we were in a tailspin and nothing we did corrected our descent. We started investing in a soundman and things got worse. We rotated pro drummers and sounded better as a result - but got no bounce from it.

[serial]

Don't care what anyone says-chops are overrated. While we as musicians or even pseudo-musicians like me ;P, Would like to think it matters, it doesn't. The only people who notice most of that stuff are other musicians and 99% of them will be saying to themselves "I can play that better" or "i can't believe he played THAT note in the solo-WTF?!".

Since a very small part of your crowd will be musicians, I am convinced that song selection goes much further than chops.

Play stuff halfway decent that people go "oh yeah!!" and people will remember you and come to see you more and tell their friends about you than if you play stuff flawlessly and even inspired if people either don't know or don't relate to the song. We've completely butchered some tunes and for weeks afterwards, I get emails from people raving about the song we trainwrecked.

Again-we should get over ourselves and realize that with cover bands, people really don't give a shit.

Unless your vocalist sucks-then you're complete toast-even if the music is perfect.

[BubbaVO]

...

Since a very small part of your crowd will be musicians, I am convinced that song selection goes much further than chops.

...

Unless your vocalist sucks-then you're complete toast-even if the music is perfect.

Was at a bar the other night having this very conversation. My friends and I ended up agreeing with Serial on song selection. But also important was having great vocalists. As for note-for-note guitar excellence, not that important.

[Thundernotes]

This is one of my favorite topics. Over the years, I've made a lot of mental notes, and directly asked a lot of club owners/managers/bartenders what they look for in a band. The results are fairly consistent.

I'm good with your 1 and 1a selection - vocals are often the weakest link in any cover band. Know your limitations. If you can't sing it reasonably well, skip it. Ever hear someone do a bad cover of a Journey tune?

2. A killer setlist. Rule # 1 - take all the tired cliche'd classic rock stuff and scratch it off. No Mustang Sally, etc, etc. Sure, some club patrons always ask for it, but playing it will only ensure the staff and management don't see you as any different than the bunch they had in here last weekend. Establish an identity. Figure out if people can dance to it. If they can't or won't dance to it - can it. People under 30 don't seem to dance much these days, but in general, if people aren't on the dance floor, they're not getting thirsty. Oh by the way, this isn't the music business - it's beverage sales. In my experience, playing songs that are recognizable (that means MAINSTREAM RADIO airplay) but not the same stuff every other band is playing. 99% of your audience is not musicians, and therefore unlikely to be impressed with your obscure Pink Floyd tune. They will sit on their asses and be bored.

3. Learn some new songs. Songs that were called classic rock back in '77 when you were in college, are now called "OLDIES". If you just have to play those old songs, consider updating the sound to give them a modern flair. My former band used to do "Last Time" by the Stones as if Green Day were playing it - went over big.

4. Don't worry too much about having "the look" or credibility in your genre, especially if it's just a song or two during the night. If you can sound believable, it will impress even the young people (maybe more than if you have the young punk thing going on). The flip side of this is knowing your limitations. If you're 63, fat and balding, maybe playing Animals by Nickelback is not really your thing. I don't care if you have the sound perfect.... That's just creepy.

5. Make sure everyone is on the same page with schedules and desired gig load for the group. Commitment is very difficult for part-timers who work day jobs and have families, so be prepared to deal with it. Maybe having a backup guy for your members who don't want to gig 6 times a month is a good idea. Or maybe you just get someone else.

6. Know your sound system inside and out. Know how to control feedback and keep the club manager happy with your volume levels. A sound man is not absolutely essential in the average bar-band setting (corner of the restaurant, that is) but you have to control your stage volume. Excessive stage volume is the cause of pissed off management, howling feedback, and can earn you an "amateur garage band" reputation quicker than anything. Maintain the system and keep a good stock of spare cables, strings, drum heads, microphones, and maybe a backup amp or two.

7. Here's a catch-all list of some other do's and don'ts: (Many of these are just my opinion based on my experiences and observations) YMMV

Be on time

Don't swear on the mic - it makes you look like a douche.

Don't tune with your amp on - mute it

No wanking between songs - you're supposed to know the stuff before the gig - now is not the time for practice.

Don't let random people who ask get up on stage and sit in - it causes more problems than it's worth

No band tab - amateurs play for beer. Pay your own bill BEFORE YOU GET PAID AT THE END OF THE NIGHT and tip the waitresses nicely. It pays off.

Lose the music stand - it has no place on the stage of a band that really knows it's stuff.

Keep consumption to a minimum. It makes you play worse and forget lyrics. Booze will rag-out your voice early in the night.

Don't take yourself too seriously - have fun up there.

[elduave]

Don't care what anyone says-chops are overrated. While we as musicians or even pseudo-musicians like me ;P, Would like to think it matters, it doesn't. The only people who notice most of that stuff are other musicians and 99% of them will be saying to themselves "I can play that better" or "i can't believe he played THAT note in the solo-WTF?!".

Since a very small part of your crowd will be musicians, I am convinced that song selection goes much further than chops.

Play stuff halfway decent that people go "oh yeah!!" and people will remember you and come to see you more and tell their friends about you than if you play stuff flawlessly and even inspired if people either don't know or don't relate to the song. We've completely butchered some tunes and for weeks afterwards, I get emails from people raving about the song we trainwrecked.

Again-we should get over ourselves and realize that with cover bands, people really don't give a shit.

Unless your vocalist sucks-then you're complete toast-even if the music is perfect.

Chops may be overrated, but they're on the list.

Song selection is above chops on the list.

People do give a shit though. If I think that, it doesn't mean I need to get over myself or that it doesn't matter. There are musicians that we all know that have inflated importance and what not, so I "get" your flip-ness about it, but I think your total dismissal of chops and audience reaction to stuff played well is OTT.

You guys play stuff well, you know it, and "act like you've been there", which in the end is cool enough.

[HamerHokie]

Don't care what anyone says-chops are overrated. While we as musicians or even pseudo-musicians like me ;P, Would like to think it matters, it doesn't. The only people who notice most of that stuff are other musicians and 99% of them will be saying to themselves "I can play that better" or "i can't believe he played THAT note in the solo-WTF?!".

Since a very small part of your crowd will be musicians, I am convinced that song selection goes much further than chops.

Play stuff halfway decent that people go "oh yeah!!" and people will remember you and come to see you more and tell their friends about you than if you play stuff flawlessly and even inspired if people either don't know or don't relate to the song. We've completely butchered some tunes and for weeks afterwards, I get emails from people raving about the song we trainwrecked.

Again-we should get over ourselves and realize that with cover bands, people really don't give a shit.

Unless your vocalist sucks-then you're complete toast-even if the music is perfect.

Chops may be overrated, but they're on the list.

Song selection is above chops on the list.

People do give a shit though. If I think that, it doesn't mean I need to get over myself or that it doesn't matter. There are musicians that we all know that have inflated importance and what not, so I "get" your flip-ness about it, but I think your total dismissal of chops and audience reaction to stuff played well is OTT.

You guys play stuff well, you know it, and "act like you've been there", which in the end is cool enough.

Chops is a red herring in my mind, because it's not a reason people come out to see us. I get compliments over the course of the evening, but those giving the compliments are nowhere to be seen the next time we play there.

The 'getting people to dance' thing is important too. Another thing is, 'don't play the same stuff every time you play there.' My lead singer was bad about that at times. Not only the same songs, but in the same order.

[cmatthes]

I had this conversation with guys I know in two different bands in the last two weeks. The common denominators are definitely quality song selection and conveying a confident stage presence and professional image.

I couldn't agree more with Brian about the stuff like "Mustang Sally", etc. We all hate to play 'em, and nobody really wants to hear 'em anymore, right?!

As far as the overall image, think of a cover band like Jeff R's TTL. They're fun, engaging, and have a definite "look". Nobody is going to confuse them with the guy sitting next to them at the bar or the guy getting ready to go wash his car. They also SELL IT. Makes a big difference.

If patrons are being entertained, they'll stick around. Club/Bar owners pay for THAT, not to hear your artistic renderings. If you can pull that part off, you'll be remembered - by the club owners and the people who caught the show. Cover bands are rarely the focus for somebody's night out, but the good ones will develop a folowing. Several guys here in cover bands have developed those followings.

[GaryT]

DRUMS is ALL you NEED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When NOTHING else wae there.............................DRUMS WERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[serial]

Dave-you're right-I'm probably being a bit flip, but I rarely get out to see other bands and have seen two in the past month-both big draws in the biggest local clubs and neither even approached musical proficiency on guitars or (ugh!) keyboards and one did more sampling/sequencing than playing. One has a hot and very capable female frontperson and the other has the choreographed stage jumps and moves that look slick and they act cooler than they are which sells I guess. But they played the raprock and current stuff that is on the radio now.

Both bands looked good too-not a Knack or Romantics-style package, but they dressed for the gig.

And Gary is right-drums are important too.

[edgar_allan_poe]

Successful cover bands boil down to one simple thing...

You are not there to play the music you like, you are there to play the music the *patrons* like. That means swallowing your pride and playing some stupid simple songs.

It also means that you have to have a wide collection of songs to play different environments. We have a well paying gig that requires us to play some softer, mellower music because the clientele is much older and are there to enjoy the good Martinis that are $10 a pop. Playing Fight for your Right to Party isn't going to make *anyone* happy in a place like that.

[Brooks]

having played in many cover bands & having done a cover acoustic duo for 6+ years, i will weigh in;

1) TUNES - most important factor, the cheesier and more well known the better. dave & i can get a better response w/ "brown eyed girl" on acoustics

than my 5 piece jazz/funk band w/ horns can get w/ our BEST original instrumental.

2) VOCALS - good lead vocals are essential, and harmony vocals are a BIG plus.

3) EVERYTHING ELSE IS NOT THAT IMPORTANT. sure, as a musician you want to look good, have good chops, nice gear, act professional, etc. But, i have seen it again and again where someone ONLY has good tunes & vocals (but has a horrible look, crap gear, &/or unprofessional behavior) yet gets the good local gigs. a good example is my gig w/ dave; i can miss a week, and dave can still have a good gig by himself (w/ no harmony vocals, no tasty guitar solos, & not great guitar gear/tone). theres another guy who is a big cover act around here, he's horrible looking and acting (fat, sloppy, unprofessionally late/rude/drunk), but has a great setlist and voice. i passed up a gig w/ a sucessful local wedding/corporate band who had a full calendar of good paying gigs because they could BARELY PLAY their instruments!! obviously, different areas may have more or less competition, and the more professional you are then the better chance you have of success w/ club managers and bookers, but ONLY IF YOU HAVE GOOD TUNES & VOCALS.

PS- drums- not that important; dave & i regularly fill the dance floor w/ no rhythm section; we play rhythmic strum patterns and upbeat tunes. sure, a BAD DRUMMER can really phuck up a gig for those onstage, but most of the audience won't notice if you're still dishing out the hits. i know this 1st hand, i've done many sucessful cover gigs w/ bad drummers.

[edgar_allan_poe]

having played in many cover bands & having done a cover acoustic duo for 6+ years, i will weigh in;

1) TUNES - most important factor, the cheesier and more well known the better. dave & i can get a better response w/ "brown eyed girl" on acoustics then my 5 piece jazz/funk band w/ horns can get w/ our best original instrumental.

2) VOCALS - good lead and harmony vocals are essential.

3) EVERYTHING ELSE IS NOT THAT IMPORTANT. sure, as a musician you want to look good, have good chops, nice gear, act professional, etc. But, i have seen it again and again where someone ONLY has good tunes & vocals (but has a horrible look, crap gear, &/or unprofessional behavior) yet gets the good local gigs. a good example is my gig w/ dave; i can miss a week, and dave can still have a good gig by himself (w/ no harmony vocals, no tasty guitar solos, & not great guitar gear/tone). theres another guy who is a big cover act around here, he's horrible looking and acting (fat, sloppy, unprofessionally late/rude/drunk), but has a great setlist and voice. obviously the more professional you are, the better chance you have of success w/ club managers and bookers, but ONLY IF YOU HAVE GOOD TUNES & VOCALS.

Absolutely!!!!!

[Turdus]

Define "successful" cover band.

My band is entering our 9th year of existence. Started as a 5 piece, and then became a 4 piece many years ago. 3 of us are original members. We don't play that often, but enough to get my jollies... once, maybe twice a month maximum.

We have no following, except for cmatthes, lol, and we are thankful for him. There is the occasional band drama, but it is fairly short lived. Our song selection is classic rock, but it is high energy, and we attempt to make sure that anything new we learn (oldies, that is) contains a certain amount of sleaze to it.

We use pro equipment, electronic drums, small amps, and a killer PA system. We don't wear shorts onstage... except for the one summer gig, where I got caught having to set up the headliner's PA. Once completed, their manager told me we were 5 minutes late in starting, lol... so I looked like a d'bag for that one, as they would not allow me to change. I should have just taken the shorts off.

So I have no idea what makes a successful cover band. A 7 year run is pretty impressive to me. Most bands, around here, last 7 weeks to 7 months, maybe.

[Brooks]

Define "successful" cover band.

if you can get a good response at your gigs, and continue to get return bookings over several years, you're there.

[Jeff R]

Thundernotes Brian nailed everything I could have contributed to this post, and everyone else is making very valid points.

In TTL, our priorities are to have a lively set list that keeps people on the dance floor, we want to stand out visually in a cool/hip way, and be as tight as possible. We just re-tooled a somewhat-standardized set list so to speak to tighten the performance up even more, to kill dead air between songs, to foster more of a "no surprises" approach as far as our intros/outros as bandmates and eliminate/reduce the chances for slop starts or ends. This speaks volumes on how pro and subsequently "good" you are perceived by both patrons and clubs' decision-makers. We're poised to be fluid and change on the set -- we have a garage song list in the second and third sets we pull from based on the club's patrons and atmosphere, but we aren't going to get into the garage until the crowd is drinking and partying and we've already knocked them on the ropes the first set.

Something worth noting that I never noticed until I started typing this. We NEVER get requests during the TTL set, I can't recall one request in the almost-a-year we've been doing this. I think it's mainly because we have a set list with bouncy, familiar songs that are already hitting the right good-time party buttons with the clientele. We've flushed plenty of songs in our set list that just didn't hit that objective.

I couldn't cater to musicians/guitar players in our set list even if I tried. The set for the clubs we play has pretty much no solo/virtuoso stuff, and if and when that occurs I can't be six-string wankboy because I'm typically dancing around so much stun gun chops couldn't happen. My job is to nurture the party environment as I hit the song like it is, whether I'm singing or playing guitar.

I've casually laughed here before that the most imporant piece of gear in my rig is the baby blue tux jacket but it's really no joke. My main guitar was made in Korea and my amp is solid-state. If anyone in the crowd has noticed, they haven't asked me about it. But I've been asked where I got that blue jacket and where I got my Buddy Holly-esque platform shoes. Go figure.

[jisham]

My previous band, Eighth Day Morning, had a good four year run and learned quite a bit, most of which reinforces what others are saying: 1. Good frontman (woman), 2. Tunes that patrons want to hear. 3. Act professional in all your dealings.

When we started, we had dreams of doing heavy drop d shit all night and that stopped after about two lacklaster gigs. At the end (when we were firing all cylinders) it was Jenny Jenny, Sweet Home Alabama and the like. But I gotta say, playing those types of songs when the whole place is bouncing is a blast, so I'm not complaining one bit.

My new band is straight ahead southern rock covers -- Skynyrd, Molly Hatchet, Allman Bros, 38 Special, Blackfoot, Outlaws etc. We're starting to book shows starting in late January and it's been fairly easy once the club owner hears our style of music. Go figure.

[silentman]

I'll echo what most folks have been saying. Chops not necessary. The vocalist is key. People will notice him/her the most. DOing acoustic gigs lately has been fun. Once we've warmed up the crowd go into your bread and butter good time songs. Agreed that corny, guilty pleasure songs go over huge. We had a request for Down Under from Men at Work last gig. We had to comply with Overkill, LOL. We try to get the audience involved from singing along to sitting in. We had this guy come up and sing a killer version of Mustang Sally (with Harmonica). I knew he meant buisness when he pulled out a pocket of them and asked what key. Surrounding yourself with folks who can go with the flow, and improvise pays off too. Between myself and my keyboar player, we know tons of songs and can often take a crowd suggestion and give it a whirl. THose can sometimes be the best gigs cuz it's not hte same old set list. ANd folks don't really notice if you screw up - theyt are having a good time.

[jisham]

I'll echo what most folks have been saying. Chops not necessary. The vocalist is key. People will notice him/her the most. DOing acoustic gigs lately has been fun. Once we've warmed up the crowd go into your bread and butter good time songs. Agreed that corny, guilty pleasure songs go over huge. We had a request for Down Under from Men at Work last gig. We had to comply with Overkill, LOL. We try to get the audience involved from singing along to sitting in. We had this guy come up and sing a killer version of Mustang Sally (with Harmonica). I knew he meant buisness when he pulled out a pocket of them and asked what key.

At least he could sing/play the harmonica. I think the biggest bane of cover bands is dudes in the audience who want to "sit in" and play and/or sing with the band. Nine times out of ten they're drunk fucks and dealing with them can be a huge pain in the ass.

[Steve Haynie]

Find songs that get the audience singing along and pull them out when the audience seems to be wandering off.

[Frank]

We've been playing together (same three guys) for over 16 years. We have a couple of restaurant gigs where we have been playing there for over 6 years. We play a mixture of covers and originals. One of the comments I hear most is we play the things they like to hear. We have a pretty wide range - from John Mayer to Fats Waller - and I think that explains a lot of it. You have to have a good variety and be willing to change your game plan if people aren't responding. You also have to realize that - like an earlier post said - it's not about the music. It's about the venue selling drinks, food, whatever their stock in trade is. It's also about being easy to work with, willing to adjust to the needs of the venue, being on time and set up and ready for any problems that might arise during the night. I had an amp just before the first song of the night. I walked out the truck and brought in the spare and we started on time. That's what a club owner manager wants to see.

[DavidE]

1. Don't take yourself too seriously.

2. A good to great front man, or at least someone who can engage the audience is HUGE.

3. A good set of songs.

4. You don't have to be great, but don't suck.

5. Marketing. (Ask Paults about this. His band is tops in this regard.)

6. Look like you're having fun.

7. Like what you do. If you absolutely hate playing Mustang Sally and Brown Eyed Girl, don't play them. Your disgust will show.

8. Remember that the audience doesn't care about your internal band shit, so keep it off the stage. No drama.

9. Treat the clubs and agents as you want them to treat you. Build a relationship. Don't book a club through an agent and then go behind their back and book directly to make a couple of extra bucks. Be honorable in your business dealings. Some of these folks may actually become friends.

10. Understand that the club has you there so THEY can make money. They'd rather hire a band that sucks if that band brings in a lot of people who spend a lot of money.

11. Make sure you sound good. That often / usually means hiring a good sound company with good gear and a good engineer. Not only will it save your back, it will make for a better experience for you and the audience. Mixing from the stage with a p.a. that's just too small is a huge mistake.

12. Here are some things that my band/frontman did that helped me decide it was time to shut it down and things I would suggest you not do:

a. start late. often

b. talk too much between songs (my frontman thought he was engaging the audience but I heard too many complaints about it)

c. after talking too long, turn your back to the audience, stare at your song list and discuss what to play next

d. don't mention the website during the gig... ever...

e. don't do anything to add to the email list

f. don't learn new songs

h. blah blah blah....

[bobbymack]

My 4 piece cover band has survived 10+ years and running, with I believe minimal turnover...we're on our 2nd drummer and 3rd bassist due to resignations, and have replaced one guitar player for a better player / vocalist. We have keys and chick singer available as needed but fairly rarely, we average about 35 gigs a year.

The hardest thing I've learned is re: material. As Poe and others have said, you cannot get by playing only things you want to play. You have to be willing to put one wheel in the ditch material wise, as i like to refer to it...we still mix our chestnuts in there, but there's alot of schmotz all of us would rather skip in our "good time rock" setlists...."they" want to hear it, and you better play it. Brick House anyone? Arghhh.

Also, we've gotten alot more gigs since we added pro vocalists (a fulltime frontman/guitarist in Austin for 10 yrs before coming back home, and a "veteran" bass player with really good soulful vocals). We do 3 part harmonies on most of our tunes, and the fact that we moved me over to lead guitar to accomodate our Austin boy on rhythm and vocals has gone basically unnoticed...I generally play simple, melodic lines that fit the song and it seems to work fine, people care about good vocals, not guitar rage. Another lesson there as others have said...

Be professional always. I just got thank you notes from the 2 ladies who gave us about $10K in gigs each of the last two summers...because I sent them flowers and a thank you note at Thanksgiving. I will get first pick of their date calendar again this summer. Thank your host, promote the club, its specials, and its bartenders and servers. Mention their names. People love to hear their names.

Look good, no shorts unless you're outside and its 90 or hotter. Engage the crowd with dialogue and humor, don't take yourselves too seriously. Create a party atmosphere, you're not playing at Radio City...

Find people who have similar wants as far as playing out and rehearsing goes. Get good PA gear. Have a good website. Promote. Do some charity events.

Have fun.

[HamerHokie]

All great replies.

One thing that hasn't come up (unless I totally missed it) is the need for a booking agent or manager. This was always a big sticking point in our situation, because the lead singer insisted on doing all the bookings (due to bad past experiences with agents).