1 x 12 x 2 or 2 x 12 x 1 or 2 x 2 x 12 or 4 x 12 x 1

[Ting Ho Dung]

Okay, these are all boxes:

1 x 12

2 x 12

4 x 12

Is a small stack 2 x (1 x 12) = to 1 x (2 x 12)?

Which sounds better?

is a small stack 2 x (2 x 12) = to 1 x (4 x 12)

Which sounds better?

I know it's all subjective but can you give me an idea. I have an Egnater rebel 1 x 12 and was considering getting another to make a cute little stack but now wondering if I should get a 2 x 12 and turn it on it's side. So then I thought if I did that I'd eventually want to get 2 2x12 and then thought why not get a 4 x 12. Other than I would have to have help lifting the 4 x 12 what would be the advantages / disadvantages of these setups? For that matter why couldn't I just get 4 1 x 12 as long as the impedance is correct?

[Jeff R]

I'm a big believer in not only having multiple speakers, but specifically the Marshall 1936 series 2x12 cabs. Sounds too close to a 4x12 for the projection, low end and overall thump to ignore reduced weight, size and ease of transport. Fits easily on the back seat of my sedan, I can carry and throw it around by myself and hey, it looks good too.

Here's my current one ... when I got it, I found the original Celestions were replaced with early-generation Peavey Sheffields. Sounds so good I haven't messed with it.

[Never2Late]

Convenience would dictate having cabs with more speakers for mobile applications.

If you're not requiring mobility, then what are your ears telling you about vented vs. sealed cabinets for the kinds of tones you're generating? Depending on speaker type, you may want to 'experiment' with sealed/vented cabinets to find that sound that works the best for your signal path, and a one sealed, one vented 1x12 pair would give you the flexibility to tinker and find what makes you happy. 2x12 and 4x12 just multiplies the sonic intensity, IMHO. I would want to find what speaker, and how that speaker interacts with the vented/closed cabinet FIRST, and then go to a multiple speaker config later depending on how much noise I wanted to make....

[Bobby Marshall]

If playing with another guitarist it does look nice when you both use these same size rig.

There are alot of variables for cabs between speakers, open, closed, ported. I combined a closed back cab with an open back cab once and I think it was the best tone I ever had but I don't want to take two 4x12 cabs to every show.

[FrankieIII]

What Jeff said.

(2) 1x12 cabs are cool if you want to put one on each side of the drummer to spread the guitar sound more and/or do ping pong stereo delay, etc. but if you just have (1) stereo cab and it's being mic'd and run thru the PA you can achieve the same results and it will sound even better.

[JohnnyB]

Are you playing out regularly enough in venues large enough that you need more volume?

Here's a 2x12 made to stand on end that'll peel your face off. Not cheap, but it's about the same footpriint as a 1x12 and puts the head at a better height for knob-twiddling. The Thiele port design gives you the sensitivity of an open back with the bass extension of a closed cab and more slam than either.

[bubs_42]

I'd go with a 2x12, I personally use a 1x12 but it is really all about ease of grab and go. Matching Speakers are cool in a 2x12 but then you have to run 2 mics.

[MCChris]

I owned a Z Best 2x12 before and currently own a Mesa Thiele 1x12 with a 200-watt EV speaker. The Mesa blows the Z away in every aspect: portability, fullness of sound and power handling. The Vintage 30 is a tricky speaker. I hated it in the Z. Dominated the other speaker and the benefits of the ports.

[unfun75]

Why can't Dr. Z find a glue that will hold the "Z" label? They always fall off!

[sirDaniel]

I owned a Z Best 2x12 before and currently own a Mesa Thiele 1x12 with a 200-watt EV speaker. The Mesa blows the Z away in every aspect: portability, fullness of sound and power handling. The Vintage 30 is a tricky speaker. I hated it in the Z. Dominated the other speaker and the benefits of the ports.

I have a Mark IV running a 1x12 cube/EV and its big sounding AND portable. Anything louder is just uncivilized.

[django49]

One great sound (IMHO) is to have a 1 x 12 Theile in a closed back cab (on the bottom) and a 1 x 12 open back on top, using a V-30. That way, I can use one or the other or both. I like them together, as it adds that clean projection below, with some break up "on high". That way, no battle inside the cab by 2 dissimilar speakers.

Even better, a combo amp in the middle, then a power amp driving the "mini-stack" on either side...."Dry" in the middle, efx on the sides in stereo. Years ago, did that with a Mesa 2c+ in between, with a Mesa 50/50 driving the other 4. HUGE sound......Not as great for mobility.

[MCChris]

Anything louder is hectorp's.

Fixed.

[Morris Davis]

I have a lopo vertical 2x12 with a slanted top (rather than flat). It's great - one speaker on the floor for bass, one speaker pointed at you for volume and treble. It's like the best of a 4x12 and a 1x12. Plus it is light. I had a Marshall 2x12 1936 I didn't like nearly as much.

[Ting Ho Dung]

Why was it in the past that everyone wanted a full stack Marshal? We are going to be playing outside in April. Being outside, I don't want the sound to get lost. I want it to be big. We are going to do some practice gigs with the amps we have, 15, 20, 30 watt amps / 112 combos. My concern is the outdoor concert. Is micing it through the PA a better / bigger sound than having a full stack behind you? I know it's easier on your ears but isn't it also a weaker sound? This is all new to me. I've been studying a lot of pro rigs lately and am confusing myself. I also saw the "let's see your gigging rig" thread and I must say the OPs (can't remember his name at the moment) was impressive with the Diezel head and 4x12 Mesa cab. You can't test this kind of stuff at GC so please forgive my ignorance and thanks for the cool ideas so far.

[JohnnyB]

I owned a Z Best 2x12 before and currently own a Mesa Thiele 1x12 with a 200-watt EV speaker. The Mesa blows the Z away in every aspect: portability, fullness of sound and power handling. The Vintage 30 is a tricky speaker. I hated it in the Z. Dominated the other speaker and the benefits of the ports.

That's really impressive. The Mesa only weighs 36 lbs to the Z-Best's 60. My perception may have been influenced by the Rt. 66 driving the 2x12 (no doubt voiced for each other) and driven by a vintage Les Paul by a guy who really knew how to play it. From inside the store where the guy was playing you could hear it echo off the buildings outside across the street.

Still...I had a Mesa DC-10 and they've been getting monster sound out of small packages since Roland Smith started stuffing 100w amps into Princetons.

As it turns out Mr. Thorn is playing outdoors. I see 4x12s in pawn shops for $150 pretty often, once even a like-new Carvin Legacy 4x12 cab at that price.

OTOH, Santana gets the bulk of his sound--even at outdoor concerts--from a Mesa/Boogie Mark mic'd into the PA. Sometimes the back line is mostly for show--or the power of suggestion. There would be plenty of bass in such a setup because close miking boosts bass response.

[LordsoftheJungle]

I've got a couple of Forte 3D 1x12s that sound great individually and together but what I really got them for was to combine them with my Avatar 2x12 and set up a wet/dry/wet rig. It sounds fantastic but setup and hauling it all around wouldn't be ideal if you played out alot,,,

[hamerhead]

It really depends on how you're going to use it/them. If it's mic'd, use the best sounding smallest set-up you can find. It won't sound weak or wimpy if mic'd and EQ'd properly out front. It'll just sound like a bigger version of what you're hearing on stage. If your PA is for vocals only, then bigger is better.

At Bratfest (on the very stage where our own BadgerDave was playing), the backline included 3 Marshall 1/2-stacks on one side. I'm not sure how many were running, but at 30-40 feet out, they could easily be heard over the PA (a big PA). The overall mix was good (even at 50 yards), but those things were screamin'. Sounded, well......like 3 cranked Marshall 1/2-stacks.

It. Was. Awesome.

I have a lopo vertical 2x12 with a slanted top (rather than flat). It's great - one speaker on the floor for bass, one speaker pointed at you for volume and treble. It's like the best of a 4x12 and a 1x12. Plus it is light. I had a Marshall 2x12 1936 I didn't like nearly as much.

I picked up a closed-back one of those up just lately and used it (with a Super Champ X2 head) for the first time at yesterday's gig - a big music fest beer tent. Plenty of stage volume, and it just ripped out front.

Mine's even lighter because there's no bottom speaker in it - I bought it without one and was going to throw one in, until I tried it and it sounded great. That giant port really works! My Mojotone 2x12 (a box I love) may be put on the block, it's that good.

Mo - what are you using for a head?

[MCChris]

I owned a Z Best 2x12 before and currently own a Mesa Thiele 1x12 with a 200-watt EV speaker. The Mesa blows the Z away in every aspect: portability, fullness of sound and power handling. The Vintage 30 is a tricky speaker. I hated it in the Z. Dominated the other speaker and the benefits of the ports.

That's really impressive. The Mesa only weighs 36 lbs to the Z-Best's 60. My perception may have been influenced by the Rt. 66 driving the 2x12 (no doubt voiced for each other) and driven by a vintage Les Paul by a guy who really knew how to play it. From inside the store where the guy was playing you could hear it echo off the buildings outside across the street.

I think that has a lot to do with it. Maybe a Z amp would have been a better match with the Best than my Valvetech or Marshall. But those amps sounded way better through my Bogner 2x12 with G12H30s. Probably due to the midrange; mid-heavy amps can sound shrill through a Vintage 30.

Also, I'm not convinced that a G12H30 is the ideal choice for mixing with a V30. A G12-75 makes more sense to my ears. Actually, I'm over the "mixing different speakers in a single box" thing in general.

[Bobby Marshall]

Small outdoor gigs I have done rarely have a pa other than for vocals. One 4x12 gets the job done. If you have them, one 2x12 place on either side of the stage would also be a nice set up of you have the space (stage and car).

Most FOH will not mic more than one cab so what you really want in those situation is for you to hear yourself how you want to since the audience will only hear the miked speaker.

When i had the two cabs one was a Marshall with greenbacks and the other was a mesa halfback with EVM-12Ls in the closed bottom and vintage shadows in the open top. Using different speakers in different cabs fills in nice.

[hamerhead]

That's the problem with different speakers in one cabinet - it sounds great to you, but out front they get whatever the sound guy mics. So if he picks the one that's mid heavy, or the one that's all highs and lows, that's what the audience gets. And unless you're a guitar god, you get 1 mic on your cab. And it's a 57.

[Bobby Marshall]

I should have been clearer. Use same speaker in same cab but use two different cabs. And tell the sound guy which one you want miked. When I use the halfback i tell then to mike the open/top speaker. I am not a guitar god, and never claimed to be.

[Len]

[hardheartedbill]

I have 3 cabs. A 112 a 412 (huge Bruno w blues that lives at the theater ) and a 410 Bogner. The Bogner is essentially a super reverb sans amp. Amazing huge tone and I can lift it w one hand. I love this cab more than any other piece of gear, seriously

[JohnnyB]

...The 410 Bogner is essentially a super reverb sans amp. Amazing huge tone and I can lift it w one hand. I love this cab more than any other piece of gear, seriously

I just looked it up-- a 4x10 cab that weighs just 45 lbs! What do you power it with?

[polara]

I'm of the school "Make it reliable, portable, and no louder than the drummer." Every place I play they mic the crap outta everything whether the venue needs it or not (mixing each tom in a 100-capacity club? Really?).

The sound guy's not gonna want me blasting away as then it's harder to control the mix. And thus however "big" I think I sound with a big amp, it means nothing as the sound guy controls what the audience hears.

Keep in mind a lot of bands with big ol' walls of amps just mic a Princeton Reverb (or such) and run it into the PA. But in the end, get what makes you feel good to play. Just keep in mind that you have to LIFT the damn thing and most places are going to want you to keep the volume way lower than its max output in order to get good FOH mix.

I carry a 30-watt 1-12 combo and a spare SS head. Simple.

[MCChris]

The problem with most sound guys who love being in total control of what the audience hears is that they rarely give a rat's ass about the monitor mix. So, pointing a closed-back cab toward the back wall and getting enough of your guitar in the monitor is impossible. Side-filling is an option, though.