Snake repellant question

[Jeff R]

We're having a problem with snakes around the home Von and I bought last year. Not a lot of snakes but enough - and they've been copperheads. Killed this juvenile this week while I was cutting my grass.

Our back yard is adjacent to an empty lot hosting a large bamboo thicket that looks like ideal snake habitat. Our city's public works department is coming out to determine whose property it is and whose responsibility it would be to remove or at least tame it to city codes since it's an empty lot. I've also been diligent about getting rid of leaf accumulations and stuff around the house, in the flower beds, etc. The snake above came from the front flower bed approximately four feet from our front door.

In the meantime, some of Von's co-workers recommended a granular product called "Snake Away" that's available at Lowe's and Home Depot. I've read user reviews and they appear to be split down the middle on just how effective the stuff is. Many also said the odor is very strong (think strong mothballs) for a few days after application and that reapplication is recommended after heavy rainy periods. I live in south Louisiana so heavy rains are a way of life during the hotter months. The stuff ain't cheap so I'd probably be spending a fortune on a powder that makes my yard stink like shit.

Any one have any feedback with the Snake Away stuff, or any other snake repellants that are out there? I'm not scared of snakes and I know how to approach them and handle them (see photos above) but my fear is we have three Chihuahuas and little kids that love to run barefoot around the house. I'd like to be as precautious and proactive as possible.

[Hbom]

Last place I lived that had snake issues everyone kept a pet mongoose.

[murkat]

You drink beer.

Piss around the yard perimeter.

Okay, use a spray bottle.

[Jeff R]

This video kind of backs my hunch about "snake repellants."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ8bXLPQrTU

I piss a lot in my back yard already, so maybe that's why the last copperhead showed up in the front yard. I'll make it a point to start pissing in the front beds (after dark of course) and slowly work the perimeter - one recycled beer at a time .

Also up for consideration: I just did a Google search using the keywords "wholesale king snakes." If for whatever reason the bamboo thicket behind the house can or does remain in its current state, I was thinking I'd buy a few non-pet-quality adult Florida or speckled kings from a herp breeder and release them in it. A longtime friend up until recently owned a pet store for many years and he's got connections with several herp wholesalers.

[Hbom]

The problem with the urine approach is that every time it rains you have to drink more beer.

Might want to invest in a Kegerator.

[Jeff R]

Rather than the kegerator, I'd prefer to invest in the mongoose ...the Chihuahua puppies playing with THAT would be priceless!

[mathman]

The problem with the urine approach is that every time it rains you have to drink more beer.

Might want to invest in a Kegerator.

Problem?

[Hbom]

Rather than the kegerator, I'd prefer to invest in the mongoose ...the Chihuahua puppies playing with THAT would be priceless!

From what I remember about mongoose, that might be counter productive as their diet starts with small animals, birds and rodents and only goes to snakes when there's no rodents or puppies to eat.

[murkat]

The problem with the urine approach is that every time it rains you have to drink more beer.

Might want to invest in a Kegerator.

Problem?

yeah. since when that has been a problem?

[hamerhead]

http://www.hamerfanclub.com/forums/topic/3-boobies/?p=707280

[Hbom]

/\ /\ /\ /\ That link seems to deal more with attracting snakes rather than chasing them away.

It made my snake take notice.

[Thundernotes]

Post these every 15 feet around the perimeter:

Ain' a thang won't git skeered off by that!

[Boomerang~Junkie]

We live in a more rural area of the city too. We are directly across the street from a couple thousand acres of parks land that has a river running through it. Over the years, there have been copperheads seen over there as well, but it doesn't seem like its as often anymore. I do not know why. It may be that we aren't hiking as much anymore too. I've never heard of any snake repellents being used. We always hike in taller boots though.

I've been told that a bite from one of the babies will jack you up worse than an adult CH - like straight to the ER as fast as possible - jack you up. Their venom is supposedly far more potent. I don't know for sure - that is not my field of expertise at all - but I believe snakes and such is one of Thorn's gigs.

The only repellent I know that has proven effective is .410 with birdshot. Note: That could tend to spook the neighbors a bit though.

[Tres Aardvarks]

Snakes was one of my big concerns when we moved to Virginia (as we have both copperheads and timber rattlers in the area). So far we've been lucky, and have only seen two. One while hiking in the park across town, the other a copper head who refused to move off the Monticello trail. That was weird. I have to finish clearing the vines and weeds at the front of our lot (it's always been a hay field) so no-one every cleaned up under the trees, but the kids aren't allowed to play up there anyway. We also have a large rock pile behind the house which I sometimes worry could turn into a home or snakes, but they'd have to make it across some very large open exposed fields(and we have plenty of hawks nearby) to get anywhere near it.

Piss around the yard perimeter.

Jay beat me to it.

[Jeff R]

I've been told that a bite from one of the babies will jack you up worse than an adult CH - like straight to the ER as fast as possible - jack you up. Their venom is supposedly far more potent. I don't know for sure - that is not my field of expertise at all - but I believe snakes and such is one of Thorn's gigs.

The reason for this, I've been told, is that an adult is reluctant to inject venom or at least a full shot of it on a human strike because a.) venom is a complex form of saliva that is part of the digestive process during feeding and b.) a bite on a human is one of fear and defense, not the feeding process. Supposedly juveniles don't know this instinctively as youngsters.

I have no clue if all that above is entirely accurate, but I do know my three dogs (one six pounds, the other two five pounds) can't take a pit viper bite regardless of the snake's size or the ccs of venom due to their size. And while copperhead venom is considered to be less toxic than say a rattlesnake, a guy I went with whom I went to college got bit by a copperhead on his arm during a camping trip in a rural area. Tourniquets applied, limb elevated, all the things you do en route to medical attention and the hospital administered antivenin, but he was still in the hospital for a couple days and did have some tissue damage around the bite that scarred permanently.

[murkat]

all good info, spot on.

My mom and dad would ship me off to Gma, Gpa's for summer.

They had a cabin off the delaware, in a valley.

Loaded with rattlers and other snakes.

I was taught and raised out there by my GP's.

Gpa always told me, to piss around the perimeter when I had to pee.

and carry a forked stick everywhere I went to hold them down if I came up to one.

Never I saw a snake in the perimeter, Gma HATTED snakes.

when I would go fishing, etc. yes, I saw plenty of them, no problems.

[Thundernotes]

They're virtually extinct here in New Hampshire, with the exception of about 20 known timber rattler nests. Fine by me. I wouldn't care if they went the way of the T-Rex myself.

Where is Cajunboy? I'm sure he'd have an opinion….

[LordOfTheThighs]

The adjacent empty lot ......

[Studio Custom]

What if you place the granular into a tube?

If you take a 2" pipe and drill a million holes into the bottom side, so water can't enter, and you put the granular into something to hold it from falling out, such as a stocking, would the smell permeate out and be rain proof? Perhaps prop the pipe up an inch of two so it doesn't sit in the water and allows for the smell to come out of the holes better.

[Steve Haynie]

Feral hogs eat snakes.

They eat everything else, too.

We know this is coming, too: Fuck Snakes

[mc2]

Well....I was going to recommend hanging up a lot of shamrocks and spilling Ginness out back as you drank it....to confuse the snake and make it think it had mistakenly slithered into Ireland. Even snakes know there ARE no snakes in Ireland and he would leave.

Alternately....below is some more info on the Snake Away stuff. The good news seems to be that it has a 87.5 % success rate on Copperheads !

SUGGESTION....If you read the info on the link about how this stuff works....it seems the active ingredient is the same basic one in mothballs, I think? Mothballs are a LOT CHEAPER!!! Maybe buy a couple boxes of mothballs to throw around the perimeter of your yard....although the EPA now classifies Naphtalene as a carcinogen. So, the cure for ridding snakes seems about as unsafe as the snakes themselves.

-------

Yes there is a product and it really works.

Snake Away is the worlds only ****EPA registered,**** university tested, patented snake repellent that will effectively repel both poisonous and non-poisonous snakes. The Snake Away dry granular mixture is easy to apply and can be sprinkled by hand around homes, trailers, cabins, camp sites, and garages, or wherever snakes repellency is desired. Snake Away is effective for up to 3 months. Treats up to ¼ acre lot with a home. Available in 4 lb. and 28 lb. buckets of Snake Away.

How does Snake Away work?/open link for more information

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/snake-repellent-a-344.html

http://www.domyownpestcontrol.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=Snake+away

The effectiveness of the repellent is demonstrated by the following experiments performed with various species, and the products has been found to have a rate of efficacy that varies from 17% to 100% depending on the individual species.

87.5% Aakistrodon contortirix Copperhead

75% Coluber constrictor Black Racer

91% Crotalus adamanteus Eastern Diamondback rattlesnake

91% Crotalus atrox Western diamondback rattlesnake

91% Crotalus horridus Timber rattlesnake

91% Crotalus lepidus Rock rattlesnake

91% Crotalus ruber Red diamondback rattlesnake

91% Crotalus viridis Pacific rattlesnake

17% Elaphe guttata Corn or red rat snake

21% Aakistrdon platyrhinos Cotton mouth

47% Elaphe obsoleta Yellow rat snake

100% Heterodon platyrhinos Eastern hognose snake

100% Micrurus fulvius Eastern coral snake

50% Phython molorus Burmese python

100% Thamnophis marcianus Checkered garter snake

[velorush]

How about a contrarian view: fight fire with fire.

You need a few kingsnakes to set around your property (and drop off on the property housing the den).

They find copperheads delicious, are impervious to their venom and will aggressively seek them out for dinner. They will eliminate the copperhead population as well as any rodents that might be hanging around. They are excellent, well-behaved snakes and will absolutely take care of your problem.

ETA: evidence (rattlesnake)

[a.bandini]

Another, impractical solution is to move to Maine, where there are no poisonous snakes.

Toadroller knows, or ought to. One of the many benefits of living in the Great White Northeast.*

See: http://www.maine.gov/ifw/wildlife/human/lww_information/snakes.html.

Good luck!

*Offset by the dread black fly, which gets the same amount of pain, only in smaller, more numerous doses.

[Ting Ho Dung]

Jeff,

Are you near Apalachicola? That's the only area in Florida where the Southern copperhead is found. And in that case you don't want to release Florida king snakes in your yard. You are in Eastern chain king territory. At one time it was believed there was a ssp called the goins king in Apalachicola but I believe (possibly incorrectly) that this was an intergrade between the chain king and the Florida king created in captivity. So the Eastern Chain King Snake is what you want. You can find classifieds here. Kingsnake.com Try to find someone in or around GA who collects them. You can get stub-tailed, wild caught adult males fairly cheaply. The problem is you don't know if they will stay around your home. I don't think there are any color mutations in the Easterns. But if you find that there are don't release these into the wild.

As far as a snake repellent, I've heard it's just moth balls but can't confirm that either.

Piss is known to mark territories and boundaries and serve as a warning by many warm blooded animals. Reptiles don't use this tactic themselves but no doubt that they can smell it. If it seems to them that something that could harm them has left a mark they would probably go elsewhere but I'm not sure if they think along the lines that piss is a bad thing. Rodent piss tends to attract them after all. I have seen venomous snakes (native American that is) turn tail when they come across a king snake. So they know it is a predator. Possums avoid areas marked by coyotes and foxes. You may try fox urine if your Heineken piss doesn't work.

Dry bites? No one knows why there are dry bites. And they are pretty rare too. Everyone I know who has been bitten got a good dose of venom. You can bet that if you are bitten by a venomous snake you will be envenomated. The good news is that no one has ever died from a copperhead bite. Your little dogs will though. So you need to keep a leash on them.

I have kept many copperhead's over the years. All have been beautiful, shy, little creatures. Very interesting to watch. It's unfortunate when we humans clash with the residents in and around our properties. I understand your concerns though and I think the most valid repellent would be a male kingsnake or two. Pissing outside is always fun so why not unless it's dark out and you get bit by a copperhead while attending to your business. Don't pile up fire wood or other debris around your property. These create micro habitats for all kind of creatures including snakes. Keep grasses and weeds trimmed around buildings and playground areas, etc. Try to keep wild rodent populations to a minimum. Copperheads also feed on the indigenous fence swift (Sceloporus) up there as well. So if you are in habitat that supports these little lizards the copperheads may be eating those more than rodents in which case rodent control won't help with the copperheads. Copperheads are in the same genus as water moccasins (Agkistrodon). While not quite as aquatic they do like marshy areas. If you are in a marshy area you probably don't have Sceloporus.

[Jeff R]

Thanks for all the replies all you guys, especially you, Thorn!

[velorush]

Thorn! The man!

Thanks for filling in all the technical gaps.

If only I could get my neighbors to stop killing the freaking kingsnakes! Wonderful animals and so helpful!

They always call me after they kill them: "issat poisonous?"

"No, that's not venomous, it's a kingsnake. They eat venomous snakes and should under no circumstances be killed."

"Oh." [lather, rinse, repeat]