Guitar Conspiracy Theories

[LucSulla]

While procrastinating over doing some actual work today, I started thinking about why I won't buy Chinese guitars. Is there any real reason not to, or is it just jingoism? That kind of thing. 

I finally landed on finding the thought exercise pointless because there are a blue billion used guitars out there - I mean, why buy anything new if you already know what you like and it is usually just a search away? I'm in a strat phase at the moment for example, and there are all kinds of American-made options for around $1k still. 

So another question popped into my head - why does anyone buy a new guitar at all, especially in a market that is notorious for hating very much evolution in the product?  I'm not super into totalizing narratives, but my instincts tell me it is largely due at least in part to:

1.  Being able to try before you buy.
2. Counterfeits or other misrepresentations. 

I'm skipping a third reason, "lack of product knowledge," because I think that plays quite a bit into the first two existing as considerations. 

I used to worry a lot about #1 myself before I started buying online. Since then, I've found that if a guitar is structurally sound, the frets aren't worn out, and everything works as it should, it's pretty rare to run into a total dog from a known manufacturer, and this is coming from a guy who has bought quite a few Gibsons in the 2008 to 2021 range in the last decade (obviously, the newer they were, the more recent they were bought). Gibson can't set a back angle on a nut to save their lives, but otherwise, they've all been fine. 

Outright shipping scams caught me once, but I'm pretty comfortable that I can vet guitars and sellers and haven't been stung by a counterfeit instrument either. But I, and everyone else here, has been doing this a long time. If I was 18, had one shot at getting it right, and didn't know a ton, I'd probably feel differently. 

To that end, I started to consider the utility of those two points in selling new guitars and why companies may what those fears to presist.

It makes good business sense make people think you need to be able to play the instrument before knowing if it's good, or, at the very least, have a good return policy. Likewise, for manufacturers, it's probably not a bad idea to not totally squash the idea that there are still lemons in every bunch. The more people who believe lemons are super common, the more they may be likely to stay in the dealer-direct, "certified pre-owned" (god I hate that), or GC/Sweetwater world and buy new gear. 

So I can see some utility in guitar manufacturers allowing the perception to persist that QC issues are a thing, so you better make purchases accordingly. That's also not all that interesting. 

What I think is interesting is that there is arguably a benefit in having a certain number of counterfeit guitars out there as well. You don't want them to hurt sales or brand value, but if they are just common enough to be an issue, it's reasonable to assume that pushes possible customers toward buying new product from known sellers. Better to spend a little (or a lot) more than take the risk.

Obviously, I don't know that they do either of these things or selectively not intervene to some extent out of their own interests and am not necessarily saying I believe that they do. Likewise, there is definitely some risk of things getting out of hand if you take this approach. I did find it an interesting thought experiment though. And companies have done worse. 

And it burned off about 20 minutes of time that I will never have back! haha. 

[Steve Haynie]

You think too much.  😑

[LucSulla]

55 minutes ago, Steve Haynie said:

You think too much.  😑

You don't know the half of it, bub, lol. 

[velorush]

My whole life I've bought two new guitars: in 1987 I had to have a Charvel and they were so new that was the only way to get one. My friends had just opened a new store and had their initial buy-in inventory, so they had plenty of incentive to move the red Model 3 at a great price. The only other one was the '91 Gibson Howard Roberts Fusion I still own. That one had been shipped sideways from a noteworthy Nashville seller and was offered in a deal for a couple of sub-par vintage guitars and cash. 

I find, like you, recognizable brands seem to work (or at least permit a quick flip if they don't). All I need is an accommodating seller that will provide neck spec and weight and I'm fine buying before playing.

Regarding your thought on counterfeits: no one counterfeits a $5; I don't buy Custom Shop or collector guitars. Counterfeiting a guitar I'd be in the market for would be infeasible. I'll leave the counterfeit-able(?) counterfeit-worthy(?) to you guys.

All that said, there are two guitars I *might* buy new right now and they're not cheap: 1. Gibson CS 1964 ES-335 Reissue, and 2. Gibson 50's J-50 (thought I think they've stopped producing them again). Both of those choices have to do with neck size. I didn't get a vote when everyone decided 0.83" at the first fret was the universally accepted neck size, but that just doesn't work for me anymore. Wouldn't necessarily have to have the CS 335 if I could find a new(ish) plant guitar with a larger neck.

Edited March 24 by velorush

[RobB]

You lost me at, “while.”

[Jimbilly]

I don't buy any guitars or basses I can't at least get my money back out of, so I *always buy used. I enjoy hunting for used gear to keep or flip and there's no reason to 'overpay' for anything. I also try not to keep anything that's depreciating.  The exception to this rule over the past 25 years is the Eart headless (made in China) I got about 2 weeks ago, they're about 10% higher priced than earlier this month, but still pretty stupid cheap, I don't regret getting it, I think it was $319 free shipping off Amazon, - stupid cheap is the exception. 

[crunchee]

2 hours ago, Jimbilly said:

I don't buy any guitars or basses I can't at least get my money back out of, so I *always buy used. I enjoy hunting for used gear to keep or flip and there's no reason to 'overpay' for anything. I also try not to keep anything that's depreciating.

Me too as well...the last guitar I bought brand new (not just 'mint', not just 'unused') was a USA Hamer, if that tells you anything about how long ago that was.  

[Jimbilly]

1 hour ago, crunchee said:

Me too as well...the last guitar I bought brand new (not just 'mint', not just 'unused') was a USA Hamer, if that tells you anything about how long ago that was.  

I'm pretty sure the last new bass I bought was my '97 Cruise V (deluxe; with emg's, and 2tek), it was new 'dated' inventory and heavily discounted, probably in about '99. Prior to that a similarly dated/ and more heavily discounted Cali Standard, almost hfc approved cheap for that red one. I sold it to someone here for something nearly equally stupid like $500, quite a while ago.  That awesome little music shop that is now long gone was always discounting something, or had really interesting used gear, a GC casualty. 

 I still have the Cruise V, and it's not leaving anytime soon. 

[Biz Prof]

I haven't bought a "new" guitar since '93 when I purchased my first Hamer USA from Kim at Fat Sound.  I have acquired nearly 30 guitars since that time. USA quality tends to be excellent, except that the big two brands (F and G) have wildly inconsistent QC. USA-made Hamer, PRS, G&L, Dean, EBMM are all stellar. Not a dog in the bunch. PRS SE and G&L Tribute are the best US label imports by far. Early Slammer Series imports are typically nice. MIM Fenders are good and MIK Fenders are fantastic.  '80s MIJ Charvels are superb. Imports can be excellent instruments.

 

As for MIC? It's a mixed bag in my experience. I agree with others here that recent higher end Indonesian builds are probably superior to anything MIC.

[Disturber]

My philosophy is that it is better to buy used and then spend a couple of hundred getting the guitar setup, and perhaps fret-dressed, by my favourite luthier. I know then that I will have a guitar that plays waaaaay better than anything coming new from a store.

[tbonesullivan]

Most of the guitars I have were purchased used, but recently I've been getting more "open box" and "old stock" guitars, and of course, paying more. I grew really tired of finding issues later that I didn't know about, and also my OCD keeps kicking in. Many were also "replacements" for guitars that I had previous which were not in the best of shape, or in colors I didn't like. I also guess I got burned by some used guitars that showed up in not as good condition as they were claimed to be, especially an SG natural that was supposedly "smoke free" and had a "few dents", which actually was quite smokey, and had a bunch of undisclosed poorly repaired finish chips.

I mean, I decided to keep it, but it just kinda made me suspicious. I'd much rather deal with a large company worried about a return than some reverb guy.

The only real exception to this are guitars I have picked up from forums like this, which have always been exactly as described.

[RobB]

The last new guitar I bought was in 2006/07. A Dean Water V reissue. Heavy in my Dean phase, I paid close to retail. Singed-sphincter syndrome, to be sure (didn’t even include the reprint poster of the Dean ad. Grrrr..!), when it came to selling it. The dealer has long-since been OOB, so fukdatguy!

I don’t believe my experience caused me to buy only used from them on. Just how it worked out. 

[DaveH]

On 3/24/2025 at 1:10 PM, Steve Haynie said:

You think too much.  😑

"Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar"... 😂

[murkat]

On 3/24/2025 at 12:57 PM, LucSulla said:

or is it just jingoism? That kind of thing. 

That’s it. Jingleizim. That’s the tjang.

[hamerhead]

Looking around, I have more 'bought new' stuff than I thought - 4 COs, 1 off-the-rack, and maybe 4 MIC (1 b-stock) that I got just to try.

It's all just used crap now.

[Hfan]

Regarding Chinese guitars, Eastman has done me well. I have three of their acoustics all bought used on CL. Two OM sized .. an E20 OM  and a top of the line 812S (slot neck with wonderful top of the line wood and cosmetic touches). Paid like $750 each in great condition.

I also got an Eastman acoustic with pickup a 712Ac  model probably 8 years ago Used like new. It was a warranty replacement.. back then and maybe still they stood by their products.  Its a larger body type. Kind of like the Taylor 712. I actually met the seller at a GC acoustic guitar room and compared it to that Taylor. The Eastman sounded much better for less than half the price. Beautiful wood and build quality. Some of the jazz guys love their jazz boxes too. 

I’ve only bought one new guitar in recent decades. In 2012 Sam Ash had a blow out sale of new American Standard Strats. Two colors Candy Cola or Charcoal Frost. Came with Fat 50s pickups. Went to two stores tried maybe 12 of em. Got a nice RW board Charcoal Frost for $750. Other than that I always buy used. Even cars going forward so many new ones are shite and  so expensive. 

Edited March 30 by Hfan