Played some acoustics last night....

[edgar_allan_poe]

I played a bunch of acoustics last night and was shocked at some of the shoddy workmanship displayed by some of these mid level to high level companies.

I have been looking for a decent 12 string so I decided to hit Guitar Center and see what the deal was. I played a bunch of guitars and they were all terrible. I was shocked.

1. Ovation 12 - name and model escapes me but it was selling for around $1050. This thing was awful, and almost unplayable. Strings were at least 5 feet off the board, sloppy nut work, and impossible to tune because of the nut.

2. Takamine 12 - I played two of these and they were both priced at a little over 1K. Both of them felt good, and held tune. But they sounded like someone was playing them behind a wall or something...jesus, they had absolutely no projection or presence. Absolutely terrible sound. To be fair, I got the impression that these were really meant to be more of a stage guitar than a pure acoustic, but WOW, they were awful.

3. Fender 12 - I played this for 3 seconds and realized that it was a toy. Even at a little over $300 it was still a rip-off.

4. Taylor 12 - This was the most shocking of all. The guitar was absolutely beautiful. Quilted maple back and sides, beautiful spruce top, and fancy inlays. It sounded like the Takamine...dead, lifeless. When I looked it over, I was shocked...it had the headstock attached like some of the chinese guitars. The headstock was spliced onto the neck. WTF is this? This guitar was 3K!!!????

5. Ramirez classical guitar - This was almost 2K and was a complete joke. There was a gap...no shit...a gap between the neck and the body. LOL!! It had absolutely *zero* sustain.

I left in complete shock. It was a Wednesday so I had the acoustic room all to myself. Maybe I have been spoiled by the likes of Hamer, Baker, and Huber. But that Taylor was nowhere near what it should have been at that price.

[ZR]

Try an ALvarez-Yairi. They seem to still have the quality.

[Jeff R]

I know the feeling completely. I played around in the acoustic room at GC last summer with the intention of buying something in the $600 range. Wasn't impressed with much of anything. So I bumped up to the $1K range. Still wasn't impressed. Took on "the sky's the limit" mentality and still NOTHING wowwed me.

Ironically, the guitar that I was most inclined to leave with was this one particular Yamaha student acoustic (after playing about a dozen of the same series) that would have clocked in at about $300!

[silentman]

The taylors are pretty nice actually IMO. They attach the headstock like that for strength. I have a video that explains it form them that was made a few years ago. I've never played enough of their 12 strings to make a judgement on those.

[hardheartedbill]

I like the Yari's alot, they are made well, just make sure it's a Yari model. The setup and care of acoustics is crucial IMO, maybe if you see something @GC that you like they can do a setup for a full evaluation. Strings are crucial too, you get 4-5 people handling these a day and the strings are gone gone gone. Ask for a string change to evaluate. I've got a modified Yari from 1984, a really good guitar and an Ovation elite1778, the best sounding Ovation going, but I don't think they do a 12 in that model. Most Ovations sound dull to me, this model does not. I play acoustic only during the week, I don't touch my electrics unless I'm gigging or recording

[MCChris]

Guitars in general at GC aren't set up properly, and acoustic 12-strings are the worst of the lot.

I also believe that manufacturers send their "dogs" to the superstores. Of course, ideally, there should be NO dogs leaving a factory, but we all know that isn't the case, and I think that subpar instruments are intentionally shipped to GC and MF instead of higher end places like Make'n Music here in Chicago.

[Rockola]

Considered an older Guild?

[ceeb]

+1 on Guitar Center taking shitty care of there guitars. I was in there and found a beautiful Guild 12ver, that had the bridge lifting off the top. Not just a little either, the thing was barely hanging on. This was before they moved ops to Cali.

I think they get a lot of "near factory seconds", or builders do "GC batches" where they just jam out a whole mess of guits and let QC slip abit. "Close enough" Something is going on because they have a lot more crappy guitars (percentage wise) than other stores, and I don't see it all as abuse by customers.

[wgarces]

Considered an older Guild?

++++1

[serial]

I used to view those "scarf joints" on the headstock as inferior as well, but a few higher end companies use them-I hear for strength as well (although I think that it is to save on lumber!). Taylors also use bolt on necks which I thought was odd for an acoustic, but they're pretty highly regarded, so I guess it's not like the crappy Fender acoustics I've played.

Agreed on the Yamahas. I have a 20+ year old (FG 250?) low-end Yamaha acoustic and although it clearly doesn't play as well or is anywhere near as precise as my J-200, it sure as hell sounds great. Oddly enough when I first got it I didn't think it did, but it must have "opened up" with age or something-it's got a really nice tone to it now.

[ctrixie]

Guitars in general at GC aren't set up properly, and acoustic 12-strings are the worst of the lot.

I also believe that manufacturers send their "dogs" to the superstores. Of course, ideally, there should be NO dogs leaving a factory, but we all know that isn't the case, and I think that subpar instruments are intentionally shipped to GC and MF instead of higher end places like Make'n Music here in Chicago.

Yes! What MC said. It's the non & substandard setups at GC that'll kill ya.

A few weeks ago at Make'n Music we came across this Breedlove 12 that is just beautiful and sounds clear & stong. I passed on it 'cause I just can't do it now, I think it was 2.5K. Come visit!

[DavidE]

From my experience, GC and Sam Ass simply do not know how to take care of their acoustic guitars and they all sound like ass unless they're new to the store. The strings are often beyond dead. I imagine most 12 string guitars sit around for a long time before they're purchased and every moron (me included) picks them up to play a Byrds tune, Bon Jovi's Dead or Alive, Over the Hills and Far Away and Wish You Were Here.

The scarf joint is ugly as hell. But the added strength is the alleged reason for using it.

I've owned 3 12 string acoustics in my time.

1) A 70's Guild of some sort. Very plain and basic. All black. Arched back. I think all mahogany body. I remember it being dread size rather than Jumbo. Incredible low action and really nice sound. I stupidly traded it towards......

2) Guild JF65. The "ultimate" Guild 12 string. Bling out the wazoo. Well, not much MOP. Just awesome binding, fingerboard inlays, headstock etc... Flame Maple back and sides. Solid spruce top. Sounded great. Too difficult to play.

3) Sold the JF65 and bought a Taylor 355CE from Paults. Very plain Jane. No bling at all. Plays like buttah. Mediocre acoustic sound, but great plugged in and that's how I use it on the rare occasion it gets used.

Wish I had the black Guild still.

[tomteriffic]

+1 on the 20-30 year old Yamaha FG's. Amazingly good sound from what was an inexpensive guitar back when. There's a lot of neglected pawnshop prizes in those Yammys out there. Look for an FG-300 12'er.

Funny about the Taylors. I had a severely figured maple one (6 string) and while the tone was very good, the projection and volume was terrible. This seems to be the case with their maple ones. One of the better ones I've played was a lower-end Jumbo 12 (355, I think) that was a cannon. They also made a few dreanought-sized 12's, model 455, out of Imbuia. They usually reserve that wood for their acoustic basses. The one I played was the Mack truck of 12'ers. Loads of power, drive and projection.

The very best 12 I've ever played was a late 1950's Martin D12-35S, a 12 fret to the body slothead dreadnought. All the bass, mids and treble you'd ever want, plenty of volume and projection and it didn't sound like an oversized mandolin.

Seriously, check out the Simon and Patricks. The all-cherry one that a friend of mine has is the second-best 12 I've ever played. That guitar is the reason I don't presently own a 12. I can borrow it whenever I want.

[edgar_allan_poe]

I agree with the setup issue, but most of what I am talking about is not a case of a poorly cared after guitar. Nut problems are not GCs fault. A gap so large that I could slide my fingernail in between the body and the butt of the neck is not GCs fault. The strings on the Taks were fine, the tone was not. I picked up quite a few guitars and if the strings were dead, I put them back and didn't play them at all. What I saw last night falls directly on the shoulders of the guitar makers. GC is not perfect...I am well aware of this....but last nights debacle was not their making.

I also agree completely with the Guild suggestion. I will look for an 80's Guild 12er. I had a DV52 several years ago and it was spectacular.

[pesocaster]

get a 12 string Duotone and a good acoustic amp....... or a 6 string and a sharkfin pick....

[kizanski]

You mean, you couldn't get Nik Huber to make you an acoustic?

[Buzzy Fretts]

Poe,

What kind of playing are you hoping to do? Don't write off Martin. I was pleassntly surprised by what I found when I reconsidered them in the mix. If you are going to pound them hard to cut into a band mix, look at the 000-28. The eric clapton models are in this family (but you have to deal with the damn sig). Get a K&K mini western pup and you will have a killer acoustic rig. If you are considering more finger style - or a mix of both - look at the OM28v. I purchased an OM used for around 1500. It is really nice. After what I found, I decided to splurge and ordered an all black, limited edition bellezza nera model (000-28) that has alpine spuce as a cap. It is perfect for me.

[marcus2]

EAP,

For YEARS, I was looking for a good, reasonably priced acoustic (6, not 12, string though).

I played everything, including Taylors, and other nice brands and never found what I was hoping to feel/hear in an acoustic.

Then I stumbled upon an Alverez Yairi (DY 62C) and was just floored by its sound, feel, construction, and look. The action is lower than on my Hamers. It projects nicely, and feels ohh soo good.

Keep your eyes open for a 12 string of theirs. It may be your solution.

Good luck.

Marc

[jwhitcomb3]

I'd never buy or even try out an acoustic guitar at one of the big mega-stores.

The best place to try mid to high end acoustic guitars is at a shop that specializes in them. In the Boston area we have the Music Emporium (Lexington). In Carlsbad CA there is Buffalo Brothers.

In Pittsburgh it looks like Acoustic Music Works has a good selection.

Once you start getting into the higher end stuff, Collings, Lowden and Goodall leave Taylor and Martin in the dust. Like Hamer, the smaller shops can just pay more attention to detail and quality. That's not to say that there aren't great Taylors and Martins around.

I have four acoustics: An Alvarez Yairi dreadnaught that I bought new in 1982, a Gurian I bought used in 1990, a Lowden 032 Jumbo I bought new in 1997 and a solid Koa/Cedar Takamine mini-jumbo I bought new in 2002. Only the Alvarez Yairi is a dreadnaught. For me, "mini jumbo" acoustic guitars work best for everyday playing, but each of them have sounds they excel at.

Good luck!

-Jonathan

[hardheartedbill]

Seagulls are very consistent, great value too

[ZR]

Marc,

Preach it bro! That's what I have, an Alvaez- Yairi DY-62C. Love it!

Stopped me for looking for any other acoustics.

The Seagulls are a great value if you like the wider fretboard. That's what I had b4 but I just couldn't get use to it.

[salem]

I bought a beautiful Martin HD 28 vintage reissue in a guitar store that only sells acoustics. Their guitars are all kept in a humidified glass case. The salesman there turned up his nose when I mentioned electric guitars; it seems the store does not acknowledge them.

[Zork]

Poe,

If you are in an area big enough to have GC, you must have a acoustic guitar specialty store. Here in the Twin Cities we have The Podium which has been here longer than Dylan.

I say look at the Larrivée line. All solid and GOOD wood. The 03 series are fantasic and they sell for under a grand. Check out the Larrivée site. Also Guitar Adoptions has ton with good pics. Now teach somthin' woodja!

[mudshark]

+1 on the Larrivee......Guild JF-30 also is a great 12-string value if yer ok with a maple jumbo.

[AXEMAN]

I agree with silentman. I own a Taylor Liberty Tree. You need to learn about Taylor guitars before you move on so fast. Ask me I will let you know.