Importing Hamer USA into USA

[Michael_B]

I'm trying to figure out the major rules that would relevant to importing an Artist Ultimate back into the USA.

The big question is Lacey Act compliance. I've called and been bounced around several federal offices and still haven't been able to talk with anyone knowledgeable. What do I need to watch out for? What documentation do I need to provide?

And I've seen some conflicting info on the next one: Am I correct in understanding that a USA made guitar would be exempt from import duties?

Thanks for any help on this.

[serial]

It SHOULD be, but you'll still get tagged for something. Broker's fee at least. I went round and round fighting fees-won the first time then never again...

[django49]

At the risk of not knowing what I am talking about (again)....

Is that act not aimed primarily at Brazilian Rosewood (at least as it applies to guitars). Not sure if I recall if part of the Gibson hoopla was over ebony. But as best I know (or think I know) there should not be a problem with ebony, especially since that guitar can be dated to many years ago.

And reimporting USA made guitars is not SUPPOSED TO BE any sort of issue......I am just nervous about trusting any customs agent.....

PS....Regarding fees. I was told there should not be any. In my case, it was a pair of German guitars sent into the states from a Canadian dealer. I never DID get a clear story on WHY......Whether it was a customs fee, an in lieu of state sales tax or something else. However, it WAS assessed coming into the country. I was informed at the door (UPS) that they could not release them without an immediate payment of well over $400.

I was TOLD (by the seller) that if I challenged it, I SHOULD get the money back. UPS did not do much to answer questions and I just said a few bad words and decided not to fight the federal (I assume) bureaucracy......I was afraid that if they demanded complete documentation, it might open the door to something else (No, there was no Brazilian involved).

This is NOT the same thing as a USA guitar coming back. That said, it soured me a fair bit on foreign "deals".

Good luck! Just be prepared in case there is a little "surcharge".

Ultimates are a worthy quest.....And I am NOT expecting mine to go anywhere any time soon......I imagine I would even sell the "Filtertron" before that one.

[Sugartune]

Even if there are no customs fees (Ie taxes), there are usually "brokerage" fees, from my experience. Lacey Act is for protected species, including BRW, but not limited to just that material. If they expect it might be something protected, the onus is on the shipper/receiver to provide documentation. They have the right to run a core sample. Something you probably don't want .

Just to put the full fear in you. I had a Newport coming to me from the US. No offending species on it whatsoever. It was still confiscated and "destroyed".

[django49]

OUCH!

[ARM OF HAMER]

The last guitar I got was from Canada and the store shipped it UPS........... the shipping was at no cost to me but................. when I stopped to pick it up at my local "HUB".I got hit for a $118.00 "Brokerage Fee" that I had to pay before UPS would release the guitar.. Before that I had bought 2 guitars from Canada [Again shipped UPS].................they were both Yamaha guitars and I had no fees of any kind when either instrument arrived at my door. Maybe UPS decided the Hamer was a better guitar so they charged me extra to have it.

[axe2grind]

Not to hijack this thread but I just bought a USA Chap from a guy in Canada. He charged me $100 shipping which I figured was reasonable.

Are you telling me that the carrier might charge me extra when it arrives??

[cynic]

Not to hijack this thread but I just bought a USA Chap from a guy in Canada. He charged me $100 shipping which I figured was reasonable.

Are you telling me that the carrier might charge me extra when it arrives??

It may not be right away, but depending on the shipping method used you can expect to eventually see a bill for another $30-$50.

[dgstandard]

Things I've picked up on:

- brokerage fees arrive a couple weeks after the guitar or are payable up front

- IRS will charge for bonding on a shipment whose value is >$5k

- two separate packages shipped on the same day to the same address count as a single shipment and will trigger bonding if combined values >$5k

- bonding is a PITA and stops everything

- FedEx will happily charge you insurance premiums up to the declared value of the guitar however will only pay out a maximum of $1k if damaged guitars are >20 years old - "as stipulated in our service guide"

- FedEx will drop off a guitar and leave it in front of a door in freezing weather with no signature required even though the value of guitar was declared to be $2,500 - you have to ask for a signature to be required

- two day international shipping with FedEx means five business days

- no US federal taxes apply on USA guitars coming home but state taxes are possible apparently

[Michael_B]

Sounds hairy.

[Boomerang~Junkie]

What an abusive and bureaucratic CF this has become. I'd like to see how many of these seized guitars are actually "destroyed" and not in some head bureaucrat's den.

I'm supportive of trying to protect the truly endangered "things" - whatever they may be. But however well intended, the Lacey Act might possibly be one of the most misused and abusive pieces of legislation to hit an industry(s).

"Destroying" perfectly good guitars (many expensive works of art as well) in the name of "saving" something else. Only our gubment could come up with that logic and feel righteous about it afterwards. How misguided and shameful.

[cynic]

It's not always the government. I believe the aforementioned Newport was destroyed by eBay and their Global Shipping Program.

[django49]

Wait. eBAY is NOT the government?!?

[Boomerang~Junkie]

It was my understanding Evilbays Global Shipping CF returned the incoming prohibited stuff back here in the US.

Ebay does not have the authority to seize and destroy your stuff - in any capacity. Evilbay had better not EVER "seize and destroy" anything of mine I'm trying to sell. If they "destroyed" one of my guitars, I'd promptly break a small army of attorneys off in their ass.

[SSII x 2]

- FedEx will drop off a guitar and leave it in front of a door in freezing weather with no signature required even though the value of guitar was declared to be $2,500 - you have to ask for a signature to be required

You are correct sir! I came home to find my La Patrie Hybrid

leaning up against the side of the house [at least it was still

in the shipping carton!]. It was about five feet from the porch

door. That lazy scumbag piece of shit couldn't even be bothered

to open the freakin' screen door and put it inside. Lucky for

me the weather was okay and the guitar was unscathed.

I go out of my way to NEVER have anything shipped to me via

FedEx!

[coolfeel]

But however well intended, the Lacey Act might possibly be one of the most misused and abusive pieces of legislation to hit an industry(s).

This isn't limited to The Lacey Act. For anyone interested, check out the Federal Registry sometime; it may be mind blowing to some...

[django49]

I ALWAYS count on Big Bro to make my life better.

[Sugartune]

It's not always the government. I believe the aforementioned Newport was destroyed by eBay and their Global Shipping Program.

This is true.

Pitney Bowes, acting as the shipper of record "did not want to risk being held accountable for exporting a potentially protected species. The guitar will either be destroyed or kept and used for educational purposes." So yes, someone decided to keep the guitar.

Because it was through the GSP, I was refunded and the seller got to keep their money. It was kind of confusing. I guess you get that "protection" when you subscribe to the GSP.

Needless to say, I won't buy from a GSP seller. In fact, Ebay sucks, so...I don't really go there anymore. This was a HUGE part of that.

[Boomerang~Junkie]

Wow, their Global Shipping waiver/agreement must be a real doozie to cover their ass. Otherwise, with the value of even the most ragged Newport - I'm pretty sure in all 50 states of the US, that constitutes felony theft and/felony destruction of property.

Another reason not to use Evilbay's goofy GS.

[cmatthes]

People have given me crap for refusing to ship outside the US, but this is exactly why I don't do it any longer.

[Tres Aardvarks]

- FedEx will drop off a guitar and leave it in front of a door in freezing weather with no signature required even though the value of guitar was declared to be $2,500 - you have to ask for a signature to be required

You are correct sir! I came home to find my La Patrie Hybrid

leaning up against the side of the house [at least it was still

in the shipping carton!]. It was about five feet from the porch

door. That lazy scumbag piece of shit couldn't even be bothered

to open the freakin' screen door and put it inside. Lucky for

me the weather was okay and the guitar was unscathed.

I go out of my way to NEVER have anything shipped to me via

FedEx!

This is why I sure won't use USPS for a guitar. Our psychotic mail carrier has left stuff out by the mailbox rather than bother to bring it to the house. Hell, she's the only delivery person who REFUSES to put anything on our covered (but open) porch, instead throwing stuff out her window at our garage door...totally unprotected from the elements. She left $200 in photo prints in a plastic bag at our mailbox one day. Thanks lady!

[Armitage]

Sugartune "Because it was through the GSP, I was refunded and the seller got to keep their money."

So... all we have to do is find something they'll stop and keep/destroy... bid a huge ridiculous amount on it, have them stop it and pay us both off. $60,000 for a Kramer...

[Boomerang~Junkie]

Holy crap - that's BRILLIANT!

[chromium]

The guy I bought my '80 B12S from (Canada) used DHL to ship it, and weeks later I got bill for around $175 (over and above the shipping cost) for their brokerage fee. I would stay far away from DHL and UPS for International. No experience with FedEx - only ever used them for domestic.

I've sent and received many instruments and other gear Internationally via USPS/EMS, and haven't been hit with any surprises as of yet (no extra fees, duties... nothing). The dimensional limits and oversize parcel surcharges are making it more expensive and challenging to pack these days, and depending on value the insurance limits are sometimes a concern. As a seller, I've tried to mitigate risk of underinsurance by getting agreement from the buyer that they will incur the risk of loss/damage... and taking payment by wire so there's no funny business with chargebacks. As a buyer, there are 3rd party insurance options out there to supplement or replace the carrier insurance. I've admittedly often just taken the risk (clench factor = high).

That whole GSP/confiscation thing freaks me out. I'm never using that service.

[Michael_B]

As it turns out, a close friend will be in Europe, in a few weeks. If I were able to arrange for him to receive the guitar, would it be a realistic plan for him to carry it back with him and claim to both outbound and inbound customs that it was something that he had brought over with him? Or would there ordinarily be accompanying control documentation if he had truly taken the guitar with him to Europe?

[Armitage]

Don't try to fake out customs. The fines can be insane and you may be checked over for the next 7 years of traveling.