DD/Phat Cat

[duncans]

Is there any common ground between the Double Ds' in the Talladega and the Phat Cat. I'm leaning towards the single coil sound more and more. I like the description of the Double D but haven't heard or played them. I Played a Newport 90 with the Phat Cats and remember that sounding pretty good but it's been a few years ago. I've got the P-90 covered in my Eclipse(Sentell mini-P90) and like them, but don't want to duplicate too much.

Hopefully someone out there maybe has both and can weigh in.

Thanks

[Ting Ho Dung]

I played both yesterday for the first time. The DDs were in a Talladega and the Phat Cats were in a Newport. They are pretty much the same thing but the Phat Cats have adjustable pole pieces. The DDs have slugs (I think that's the correct word) that aren't adjustable.

Found this on the web:

Dantzig was adamant the Talladega would have the sound he heard in his head - that "airy snap and rich fundamental". So after collaboration with Seymour Duncan, two individual pickups came to be. "Because I wanted to be able to join the pickups in series as well, the balance was extra important," he explains. So each Double-D single-coil is ever so slightly different.

Although both are housed in humbucker-sized surrounds with a single line of non-adjustable polepieces down the centre, the neck pickup uses steel poles over P-90-style bar magnets, whereas the bridge model uses Tele-style 'magnet' polepieces with the bobbin set atop a copper reflector plate for better string separation and 'twang'.

Jol's mention of "series wiring" implies more than the Telecaster's basic three-way selector. Sure enough, here we see one of our favourite Tele upgrades: the four-way switch provides Dantzig's 'in-series' facility, allowing the pickups to be wired 'one behind the other', rather than the more traditional 'side-by-side' (parallel) found in almost all other guitars. Queen fans will know that Brian May's Red Special has the series option and it's this that gives those giant walls of sound.

On the Talladega the 'series' setting is found at position one - towards the fingerboard. The remaining three are: position two, neck; position three, both pickups in parallel; position four, bridge. With the luxury of a Cornford Carrera and a Divided By 13 RSA31 to hand, let's have a listen...

 

[Dave Scepter]

Phat cats are much hotter and have that mid grow/bite & the Double D's are not hot & have more of a chimey twang vibe~ but ymmv 

[gorch]

2 hours ago, Dave Scepter said:

Phat cats are much hotter and have that mid grow/bite & the Double D's are not hot & have more of a chimey twang vibe~ but ymmv 

And the DDs in series are muddier sounding whereas the Phat Cats in series are strong and dedicated. 

[bubs_42]

Well it would help if we know what you were putting them in. I've used the Phat Cat and would use the Phat Cat in just about anything. Scratching together a tele now to put Phat Cats in. They have great push but not too gainy and in the Newport they are Killer and in a solid body they have a big, full and quick tone. I have never tried the DD's in anything but the Tally. 

Good luck and if you can't decide just call Josh and he will whip you up something.  

[triodecr]

1 hour ago, gorch said:

And the DDs in series are muddier sounding whereas the Phat Cats in series are strong and dedicated. 

Standard Phat Cat wiring is parallel.  The Tally uses the blade switch to give series or parallel combinations of the DDs, along with each individually.

[gorch]

8 hours ago, triodecr said:

Standard Phat Cat wiring is parallel.  The Tally uses the blade switch to give series or parallel combinations of the DDs, along with each individually.

That's right. However, I have changed my Newport to a rotary switch and thus have series wiring available. So, I can compare both. In essence, the Phat Cats seem to have more strength.

ETA: you were asking for a common ground. Both pickups conquer tele ground whereas classic P90 are more into mid range strat ground.

[triodecr]

6 hours ago, gorch said:

That's right. However, I have changed my Newport to a rotary switch and thus have series wiring available. So, I can compare both. In essence, the Phat Cats seem to have more strength.

ETA: you were asking for a common ground. Both pickups conquer tele ground whereas classic P90 are more into mid range strat ground.

Oh, ok.  Thanks for clarifying.  I'd be interested in hearing some clips comparing the sounds if you have any.

[cynic]

I've owned as many as four sets of DDs at one time, and not one of them was installed in a guitar.  If you're narrowing your choice to only DD or Phat Cat, I'd choose Phat Cat all day long no matter the guitar.

As bubs said above, it would really help to know what guitar you're shopping for.

[gorch]

17 hours ago, cynic said:

I've owned as many as four sets of DDs at one time, and not one of them was installed in a guitar.  If you're narrowing your choice to only DD or Phat Cat, I'd choose Phat Cat all day long no matter the guitar.

As bubs said above, it would really help to know what guitar you're shopping for.

^This and before reaching out for a set of DDs, I'd snag a set of Phat Cats for much lower from a decent trade channel and check these out. If there were still open issues. There would still be the long route.

[duncans]

Thanks for all the info. Guitar in question is a PRS Custom 22 from '97. I took all the guts out years ago, it's set up more like a McCarty now, 3-way switch, SD Pearly Gates neck and bridge, two volume, master tone. I'm liking single coil more right now so I'm just thinking of options, might not do anything, it does sound good as is. I've got tree dual humbucker guitars and have changed this one so I was thinking of changing it again.  Not real sure if changing to something without all the mids would sound good. I had Joshs' Schlabotniks in there for awhile, but they were really bright, annoyingly bright. They reside in my 25th artist mahogany now and sound nice there, I don't think they'll leave that guitar. Just toying with a deas. Thanks again.

[django49]

If you need the mids, Phat Cats would give you a strong sounding alternative to humbucking. Duncan P-Rails are an option, if you want more versatility....Set up right (switching) up to 4 sounds from each pickup, with the P-90 being the best (IMO).
Looking at PRS alone, there are several options with full size pickups that split nicely. However, it is easier to find demos of them than to buy them, as they do not sell (except installed in a guitar) many of their models. One they DO sell separately, the uncovered 59/09s, might be worth pondering.

[gorch]

16 hours ago, duncans said:

Thanks for all the info. Guitar in question is a PRS Custom 22 from '97. I took all the guts out years ago, it's set up more like a McCarty now, 3-way switch, SD Pearly Gates neck and bridge, two volume, master tone. I'm liking single coil more right now so I'm just thinking of options, might not do anything, it does sound good as is. I've got tree dual humbucker guitars and have changed this one so I was thinking of changing it again.  Not real sure if changing to something without all the mids would sound good. I had Joshs' Schlabotniks in there for awhile, but they were really bright, annoyingly bright. They reside in my 25th artist mahogany now and sound nice there, I don't think they'll leave that guitar. Just toying with a deas. Thanks again.

Considering your ideas, there are classic P90 pickups in humbucker sizing out there which would provide the mid range you are looking for. I'd recommend lower wound versions at about 7.5 kHz or lower.

[cynic]

There are loads of winder gurus at all price points anymore.  Call a few, describe exactly what you're looking for, and wait by your mailbox.

[gorch]

3 hours ago, cynic said:

There are loads of winder gurus at all price points anymore.  Call a few, describe exactly what you're looking for, and wait by your mailbox.

Well, Josh would be the first to go as duncans knows him already.

[BubbaVO]

I liked the DDs in the Tally I had.  Great guitar.  I've horsed around with Phat Cats too.  There's plenty of overlap to my ears.  Bang for buck - the Cats are the way to go.  But if bang for buck aren't a consideration, I would also second the motion to contact Josh.  I had Josh whip up a humbucker sized p-90  and JB w A2s that I dropped into a Mirage Mapletop.  I was more than impressed at what he came up with.   So instead of paying top dollar for Jol/Seymour's vision, why not have a master wind something that will satisfy your wants? 

[geowolves]

52 minutes ago, 0054 said:

Bubs sold me a Newport with Phat Cats... great guitar, but with my amps, they sound sorta harsh... my most modern amp is a Mesa Blue Angel, which I love, and the Phat Cats sound ok there... but I'm not so sassyfied withe em... I think Josh could really turn out some amazing pickups. After my Shishkov, that is what I gonna do!

Dude, I think you need a new amp then! You got the Shishkov coming so no worries! 

[bubs_42]

9 hours ago, 0054 said:

Bubs sold me a Newport with Phat Cats... great guitar, but with my amps, they sound sorta harsh... my most modern amp is a Mesa Blue Angel, which I love, and the Phat Cats sound ok there... but I'm not so sassyfied withe em... I think Josh could really turn out some amazing pickups. After my Shishkov, that is what I gonna do!

I buy that hunk of junk back from you but its replacement will be coming soon.  Call Josh and ask him for some humbucker sized P90's, we've been working on something with Hamerheads help and as soon as I find the perfect donor guitar I will order a set. 

[Disturber]

On 2017-01-10 at 4:27 AM, 0054 said:

 

[gorch]

On 10.1.2017 at 4:27 AM, 0054 said:

Bubs sold me a Newport with Phat Cats... great guitar, but with my amps, they sound sorta harsh... my most modern amp is a Mesa Blue Angel, which I love, and the Phat Cats sound ok there... but I'm not so sassyfied withe em... I think Josh could really turn out some amazing pickups. After my Shishkov, that is what I gonna do!

Turn volume and tone a bit down. Phat Cats are hot.

[Ua D]

i would like to know more about this pickup winder called Josh.  Does he have a company name? I'm am intrigued.  

 

 

 

Nevermind mind found it I believe. 

[Jakeboy]

I have only had my Newport for about a month now and I dig the Phat Cats! Not quite a P90 but they are their own sweet thing. 

All 3 positions yield good tones. They also LOVE a 6g3 brown Deluxe.....and a tweed Deluxe too.  Honestly, that guitar sounds great through all my amps....

Never had the pleasure to try a DD. I do have a Rumpel HB sized single coil that was custome made for me in the bridge of my Strat....Rod mags like the DD but wound hotter. So kinda like a big Strat pickup on steroids...or a Jazzmaster pickup on steroids. It killed in my Artist but a set of Rumpel'trons had to go in there....

Josh or Rumpel or Biltoft at VV are the guys who will wind you whatever you want....simply describe the magical sound in your head along with the guitar/amp particulars and they will wind to match.

 

[LittleC]

Sorry, I only have a Pro (buckers) to compare to the Newport w/Cats, which I no longer own due to the Bigsby, so I cannot compare the two you are asking about.  Although I can say, I miss the PatCats so much, I am looking to replace the Newport as Bigsby-less, PhatCat loaded.  Maybe the best Ps I have ever heard.