New Ebay/PayPal Scam - Beware!!

[santellavision]

I just got screwed. But, there's still a little fight left. Here's the story...

Sold an amp on ebay. (Power amp in a rack case) The dude pays with Paypal. So far, everything's cool. I get an email from the guy saying the item "Isn't as described" Hmmm, not true, it was. So, he files a claim for a refund from Paypal. Fine, nothing I can do but dispute it. They ask him to ship back the item. PayPal freezes my money and will give him his refund if he supplies a tracking number and shows it was returned.

Here's where I get screwed. He only ships back the rack case, no amp! PayPal gives him the refund because by their requirements, he shipped the item and it shows I received it. But, he kept the freakin' amp!!! They automatically close the dispute.

But... I can still appeal. I claim fraud by the buyer. PayPal asks me to file a Police Report and submit that, which I did. That's where it's at right now. Not holding my breath I will get my money back.

The same could have happened with a guitar or anything. The bastard can ship anything back and they automatically give him his funds back. Just another reason Ebay and PayPal suck. And its only getting worse with people getting greedy and cheating the system.

[Steve Haynie]

Get some good detailed documentation from the shipper showing the difference in package weight. UPS and FedEx should be able to show this in their tracking records even if it does not show up online. A power amp is going to be 15 pounds and up, so there should be a significant difference in weight unless the case was sent back with bricks inside. No packing materials are going to weigh as much as an amp.

[veatch]

+1

I've been waiting for the day someone returns a guitar case to me without the guitar in it. So far, i've been lucky.

Hope you get this worked out.

[Thundernotes]

Another reason I sell "as-is" with no return policy. It's a natural pitfall of these arms-length transactions, unfortunately. The alternative is selling locally where some crook can come to your house and see what else you have that they might want.

I usually try to sell here first, even if it means making a few bucks less on the deal.

[JGale]

Another reason I sell "as-is" with no return policy. It's a natural pitfall of these arms-length transactions, unfortunately. The alternative is selling locally where some crook can come to your house and see what else you have that they might want.

I usually try to sell here first, even if it means making a few bucks less on the deal.

+1 ^10,000

[santellavision]

Another reason I sell "as-is" with no return policy.

I do put "All Sales final" Doesn't matter to Paypal. Their "Item not as described" overrides whatever you put in your listing.

[Uncle Thor's Hamer]

So far, I've been lucky buying from the web. I bought one Hamer from this board and one acoustic via the Ovation forum. The seller here had hundreds of posts, but the seller on the OFC was new. That one kind of worried me, but the guitar arrived better than described. The Hamer was better than expected and except for some extremely minor fret wear could pass as coming right from the hands of the final inspector at the factory.

But I do keep hearing about scams on eBay, Craigslist, and even in some of these forums. I would rather do a face to face transaction, buying or selling. I never do it at my house, always in a public location, and I always take a little "friend" along in a pocket for protection.

If I have to do an internet transaction, a forum member with a long history at least provides some measure of confidence.

[DaveL]

Get some good detailed documentation from the shipper showing the difference in package weight. UPS and FedEx should be able to show this in their tracking records even if it does not show up online. A power amp is going to be 15 pounds and up, so there should be a significant difference in weight unless the case was sent back with bricks inside. No packing materials are going to weigh as much as an amp.

great tip...

Actually, my company now takes detailed photographs of the condition of any high

dollar components that are being returned to a supplier. We suspected a supplier

monkeyed with one of our returns (pulling parts from trays/damaging them etc) and

disallowing credit. cost us about 60g's...

[kurtsstuff]

I'm really starting to hate trying to sell anything but...mostly at the local level

believe it or not...I get more jackoffs that just want to "Try" my amps.

It's gotten to where I can tell if their serious or not just by how they word

their responses...Anyways...Sorry to hear it Ernie....

[santellavision]

There's no 'easy' or 'save' way to sell anymore. Craig's list is a joke. I tried to sell some non-musical stuff and either they never show-up, or they are some 'out-of-state' scam artist with the " I'll send you a larger bank check, please give the local person picking up the item the difference in cash"... yeah right. What a waste of time.

[proxmax]

i never had a problem like this, by luck.

now i can understand people not to sell outside their country,

which would make it more difficult to grab that guy's nuts.

i bought stuff nearly from all parts of the planet and all worked fine.

but i agree not to have too much trust in ebay an paypal.

here in germany we receive lot of requests from west africa want to buy laptops

for big money to draw back afterwards.

you'll find assholes everywhere - just take care.

[MTM105]

I was an Ebay addict for years.

Until I sold a piece of gear without the power supply to Italy. The guy only had 1 other transaction.

Even though I described the item without a power supply (his English was weak) he gave me a neutral rating becasue I did not provide one.

I was livid.

Ebay would NOT back me up. Even though I had 150 transactions.

A customer with no experience has more credibility than the experienced member.

rather backwards.

And now you can't dispute and have anything removed as the seller.

[Nuclear Wessel]

This is one reason E Bay's policy of no negative feedback for buyers struck me as a joke. There are plenty of scammers posing as buyers too. Several years ago I'd already been hearing horror stories from people selling electronics and music gear on E Bay, having their buyers claim the item arrived DOA, then receiving the item back only to find it had been raided for parts.

This guy who kept the rack power amp has really got a set on him. Santell, I hope it works out. I hope the cops are some help and I hope your appeal reaches someone at Paypal who's conscientous and intelligent enough to set this straight.

[santellavision]

The local sheriff office here in Golden, CO filed the report for me, (I'm outside city limits) but they really didn't want to waste their time. I had to ask really nicely to get them to come out to do it. The Deputy said he hears more and more scams going on and said they wouldn't do anything as the theft actually took place in another state. And I would have to file another report with that state and most likely have to go there to do something anyway. But, I'm glad he did the report for me as that's the only recourse with PayPal I have left.

[Steve Haynie]

I was an Ebay addict for years.

Until I sold a piece of gear without the power supply to Italy. The guy only had 1 other transaction.

Even though I described the item without a power supply (his English was weak) he gave me a neutral rating becasue I did not provide one.

I was livid.

Ebay would NOT back me up. Even though I had 150 transactions.

A customer with no experience has more credibility than the experienced member.

rather backwards.

And now you can't dispute and have anything removed as the seller.

I have tried to open up sales to international buyers when possible, and zero feedback buyers on cheap stuff. I put a cheap Zoom pedal on eBay and a Mexican guy kept running up bids and sending private messages asking if he had won the pedal yet. I explained things to him in simple sentences. The pedal was still within its reasonable price range until the very end when the guy ran up the price again. At that time he started making complaints about the price being too high and how he could buy the same pedal cheaper somewhere else. At that point I ignored the guy and gave a second chance offer to someone else at a decent price. I never got a bad feedback nor left one on that deal.

[Crwth145]

Thanks for the warning.

[seeker]

I'm really starting to hate trying to sell anything but...mostly at the local level

believe it or not...I get more jackoffs that just want to "Try" my amps.

It's gotten to where I can tell if their serious or not just by how they word

their responses...Anyways...Sorry to hear it Ernie....

I hear you on that one. As much as possible, I end up doing local transactions in Guitar Center or CVS parking lots. If that doesn't work out, I explicitly state in any reply that if you walk in the door, have cash in hand ready to buy. Unless it's broken, damaged, or I goofed and misrepresnted it, you've bought it. That eliminates 98% of jackoffs.

Ernie, hoping for the best. You do have the guys real name, I assume? I'd try to get the FBI involved and make a case that this guy needs to become an object lesson for others.

[DaveL]

The local sheriff office here in Golden, CO filed the report for me, (I'm outside city limits) but they really didn't want to waste their time. I had to ask really nicely to get them to come out to do it. The Deputy said he hears more and more scams going on and said they wouldn't do anything as the theft actually took place in another state. And I would have to file another report with that state and most likely have to go there to do something anyway. But, I'm glad he did the report for me as that's the only recourse with PayPal I have left.

why don't you call the police in the town where the buyer lives? You never know, if the cops

have some spare time, they may swing buy for you and it will probably spook the buyer.

If any of the old timers remember Joe who posted here... He used to use this method back in

the pre-paypal days where people would cash the check and not ship. I recall it worked pretty

well.

[atquinn]

It's unfortunate you got ripped off, but this is something that can pretty much happen in any transaction that isn't face-to-face, not just eBay. Another good reason to always make sure you have your money where PayPal can't touch it. If someone tries to scam you like that, to bad for them. You might never be able to use PayPal again, but they won't be getting any money from you!

-

Austin

[paul144]

wow that sucks, what a nightmare. People should discontinue using paypal as much as they can. Maybe for stuff under $100. USPS Money orders are probably the safest bet. They just changed the look to make them more secure, with a metal band & Ben Franklin watermark on the left side. You can even call an automated 800 # to verify them by entering the serial #, PO # and amount. Of course the PO won't guarantee its not a fake, but its pretty hard to forge the new one. I got a forged old version that was easily spotted without the watermark from some Nigerian scammer that I played all the way until he called me on the phone and I told him to go F himself.

Either that or take paypal within 100 mi driving distance so you can show up with a Louisville Slugger if it goes bad.

[GusS]

Another reason I sell "as-is" with no return policy. It's a natural pitfall of these arms-length transactions, unfortunately. The alternative is selling locally where some crook can come to your house and see what else you have that they might want.

I usually try to sell here first, even if it means making a few bucks less on the deal.

the concept of an as-is sale is not applicable for a not-in-person transaction and there is no such thing as a no-return policy when accepting paypal. all disputes in which both parties communicate without reaching an agreement are automatically resolved by paypal by requiring the buyer to return at their own expense for a refund. The only thing keeping people from returning items bought on ebay as if it was Wal-mart is the return shipping.

Also regarding staying away from paypal as a seller: paying via cheques, money orders, or providing cc info to online merchants are as obsolete as CRTs. Selling on ebay w/o accepting paypal nowadays is like having a single shitty cellphone picture in your listing. I hate accepting paypal as a seller but i sure love buying with it. Most major online shopping sites offer paypal and/or google checkout along with the traditional payment methods for a reason.

[backinit]

Sorry to hear about the paypal issues. Trust me it's not just a guitar related issue. I spend a lot of time on some golf forums and it's the same deal.

[moparmagic]

i think paypal should only be used on big things like cars......wait some one could take out the moter and send it back... im so confused...thats why i dont use ebay

[crunchee]

This has definititely been a worthwhile topic to read! Good luck, Santellavision! I hope it all works out in your favor.

[Sam]

Another good reason to always make sure you have your money where PayPal can't touch it.

How do you fund your paypal account?